Original and Barn Find Cars

[Dynaflash8]

Okay here is a new topic for discussion.

 

I'm hearing that these days, collectors, I assume younger and newer to the hobby than me, are really interested in beatup, worn out, horrible looking cars found in garages and barns, and instead of restoring them, or even wanting to restore them, they bring them out for display that way.  Some even carry this fetish so far as not to wash away the dust and grime, or chicken or pigion crap off of them first.  Now I was brought up in this hobby over the last 65 years to like shiny, er....like new.  I would not be seen in some old car with all the "original" paint, but it was mostly rubbed through to primer, or worse, to rust.  If I ever got a car like that, complete with rusty bumpers and pitted chrome, it would more likely be the first car in my new to be formed junkyard.  But then again, some "new ideas" just don't appeal to me, down to and including what we now have to buy, that the makers and the government call "new cars".  But that changes the subject.  If you found such a car, paint rubbed through to rust, bumpers rusty, grill pitted, what would you do?  Would you redo the paint and chrome and be willing to pay what the car was worth before that expense, or would you ignore that expense and drive it around the way it was, having paid a premium for the "experience", using the excuse, "well it's all original?"  Sorry Charlie, but that ain't me.  If I couldn't buy it for a price that gave me the money to paint and chrome it, I'd leave it right where I found it.  Oh yes, my old Buick looked that way when I bought it in 1963.  I couldn't do any better and spent 18 years trying to make it beautiful, which I finally did.  BUT, I only paid $120 for it too....and I borrowed that money from the Credit Union.  I have no quarrel with "original" if we're talking about a 40-some thousand mile car with a little shine left on paint that covers about 98% of the car, and maybe a couple of minor wear holes in the upholstery.  If that's the best you can do, that's fine, until someday you can fix that stuff.  If you can't or don't want to upgrade that stuff, that's fine, at least it's nice enough still so as not to embarrass you.  If it doesn't, that's okay too, it's not my car.  You can always have "plans some day", most of us old-timers have been there.  I just march to my own drummer.  But, when something is worn out, it's worn out, period!  That''s my opinion so I guess I have to live with it.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

ANYTHING can be restored, the unrestored, original paint Motorcycles and Cars are special. You either understand their uniqueness or you don't. I'm sorry so many cars were ruined with restorations over the last 50 years so a $5.00 bowling trophy with a car on top could be placed on the owners shelf. Bob

[padgett]

Heck I've always spent more money under a car than on top. OTOH unless the cs is carbon dated how would you know it is original ? So not washing a car is silly.

 

Also I've dealt with enough rust for a lifetime so no interest in acquiring more.

 

Am strange in that all of my cars are drivers and each has its own garage door.

 

So if someone is passionate about patina, guess there is a market for that also (rat rods ?), just not me.

[Paul Dobbin]

Earl,

We all like pretty cars, but during the great depression they were not pretty.  It was a black & white world photographically, money was scarce and full stomach was more important to most people than a a pretty car.  Take a look at the B & W pictures of the cars we cherish that were taken in their hayday.

I like the restored cars too, but when a unrestored one shows up, it is something special.  They are big crowd pleasers at shows, even of the judges don't like them.  The show how much work the restorers go through to bring back that new car dream.  Go ahead and enjoy all of them, especially the pre-WWII Buicks you love, because there are plenty of them still wasting away in the back country.

 

[auburnseeker]

People like the history you can see looking at a survivor.  A lovingly owned and used old car with some general wear gives you the a warm feeling about the path that car has traveled.

Now an old ratted out mouse infested carcass with rust all over it and peeling chrome, shows the neglect of the car and carelessness it has been subject to.  That's not what many consider a survivor.

You can also drive and enjoy an original car with a little more care fee feeling than a 100 point freshly restored show car where the first chip or scratch nocks it back a notch on the 100 point scale. 

I can appreciate them both ways. Some cars just need to be restored that are being passed on as survivors though.  The only thing some survived is the crusher. 

Just my 2 cents of course.  It's alot shorter trip to get a barn find car on the road than completely restore it.   I think that's the main reason you are seeing so many.  Probably a good thing as well as many Restoration projects only get as far as the disassembly stage where everything gets lost or broken.

[60FlatTop]

From the late 1930's the hobby evolved and became more discerning in the quality and standards for what became accepted as a true "collector car" even a sense of the traditional rose in the hot rod and custom cultures.

What we see in barn finds, survivors, even rat rods and their derivatives is simply a counter culture movement, nothing more. Some are more "in your face" that others. It is people and groups of people seeking individuality, an identity, and making statements to free oneself (or one's group) from the expected. A lot of them are products of society's neutralization through lame media, homogenized education, and a touch of high fructose corn syrup. They have little personality and strive for identity through a logo hat, becoming a fantasy hero, or attracting attention through AGM's. Yes, a crappy looking car is an AGM. One can get heads to turn by driving past in a 100 pint restoration or some totally tired iron. Which group of individualists do you want to follow?

It is what some call managing the people's soft skills.

 

Aren't you glad you put that topic out.

 

It's always the same. You get one really neat individual out there and everyone wants to be an individual just like them.

Bernie

[Restorer32]

16 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

ANYTHING can be restored, the unrestored, original paint Motorcycles and Cars are special. You either understand their uniqueness or you don't. I'm sorry so many cars were ruined with restorations over the last 50 years so a $5.00 bowling trophy with a car on top could be placed on the owners shelf. Bob

 

Following your logic a rusty old "unrestored. original paint" car should be allowed to continue deteriorating. By collecting the car and moving it into a nice dry garage you are interrupting that process. You are emphasizing how the car was allowed to deteriorate. You are certainly not showcasing its originality unless cars came from the factory with worn upholstery and rusty body panels. I too enjoy seeing cars that have not been touched for many decades. They provide a snapshot of some period in times past but tell us little about how they looked when new.

[Frantz]

So me basically....
Knowing the market for "desirable" cars is out of my budget, a $500 project makes me scrape up the fund and buy another one! I have 7ish project cars. Part of a '37 1.5 ton Chevy, a 54 Ford Fordor (currently my main focus), a 65 Marlin, a 68 Javelin (I paid to get "restored".... back in 2008... nearing the time when I cut my losses and take it back, but storage is free!), a 79 F250 being used for a farm truck, 82 Dodge Rampage, and a 94 Mustang Hot Rod.

The Javelin was the most as a running car I paid $2500 for it and drove it for a year or two before deciding to get work done. The next most expensive was the Rampage at $1400, and the rest range from $25 to $500.

In time I'd love to see them restored. I buy them because I love to see them saved. If I did a full restoration it would cost more than most of them are ever going to be worth. I also have zero regrets for them. I've had nice drivable classics, something I'm without currently, but having a shop now to work on my cars and going to the shows and club meetings keeps me involved in the hobby. I like seeing my experiences grow and be able to go from replacing parts, to repairing parts, to making parts. So to me, nothing is ever worn out, it just needs me to spend more time on it.

 

It's a fools wish, but most of life is. So long as you're enjoying it, who cares! To me, there's many things worse to dump money into over a cheap 4 door from the '50s.

[JACK M]

This is an interesting subject.

I have a couple of observations.

Only original once has its merits, I see a lot of guy just get em running. They are enjoying the hobby at little expense. That's a good thing.

I see the rat rod craze, I like these. In my experience I found that if you take the paint job out of the mix it will save years and dollars. That's a good thing too.

Now am seeing some guys that will clear coat the patina. Even worse, painting on the patina. I don't get that. If I am spending out for a paint job it should look better than faded or rusted.

The hot rods that I build (everyone builds) are very personal. Most guys would have done something differently than what they are looking at.

The guys that are the most critical have a Prius parked out in the parking lot and no projects in their future.

One of my cars once showed up in a magazine article about how not to build a street rod. The author didn't and never had owned any kind of special interest car. What a PUTZ !!

Incidentally that car in question was the easiest car I ever built and garners the most trophies. Go figure.

Elvis loved it....

[Terry Bond]

I posted recently on another thread about an unrestored Model T that just surfaced, acquired form the original owners I believe.  I think that crusty, old faded car is a real treasure. 

 

Like Earl though, my stuff is pretty because it needed to be that way - can't drive a wrecked MG and enjoy it, can't continue dragging that old Triumph Motorcycle around with pieces still held on with barbed wire and twine.  The Model T looks best to me when the brass has been polished and then allowed to "mellow" for a couple of weeks, but I still like it shiny black and brass.

 

One of the most often asked questions I've encountered at car shows is "what was it like when you found it?"  I think people delight in hearing the before/after stories, and seeing something that represents as found can be a treat to many folks.  It also imparts an appreciation for what we do (or have to do) to get them moving again and bring them out.  I get Earl's point that some vehicles we term "original" are just "unrestored."  Original was years ago when they were brand new and the term has been incorrectly applied sometimes. I had the pleasure this past weekend of visiting Jim Schmidt's impressive collection of cars in Ocala Fla.  There were so many unbelievable low mileage cars in that collection that are truly original and should remain that way.  I think it one of those things that will always generate a lot of discussion and differing opinion, but whatever you decide to do with your car, don't hide it away - bring it out for folks to enjoy and let them tell their own story, by either proudly wearing their crusty history or gleaming in the sunshine. 

Terry

[60FlatTop]

Here is a picture of my left front fender that I took in June. I JUST got off the phone from ordering a quart of PPG Arctic White lacquer and a gallon of thinner to pick up Friday for $194.03, for that single fender.

 

Not only does the tractor look good but I got a new mower for that long grass that I fertilize collaterally.

 

 

Elvis, huh? Well, he might go for the shabby chic, but not this guy!

 

[Doug Novak]

AACA requires scoring during the shows that the Cars entered in Class Judging (the majority at Hershey are in this class) are Judged as close in comparison to Original Showroom New Condition for Class Judging. I believe most have been repainted in the original color while a few that still have excellent original paint are handy capped if up against a painted car.   Cars with patina would do better shown in HPOF or DPC which unfortunately doesn't seem to get as much appreciation from the general public, but are loved by Old Car Hobbyist.  

 

[Mark Huston]

Getting into the old car hobby, for the average guy, is cost prohibitive unless you buy an original car – usually the underappreciated four door sedan.    Over time, if you are lucky, you might be able to buy, trade, or sell; your way up to whatever is your dream car.   For some, that might never happen.   In the meantime, they can still enjoy the hobby driving around in the car that might sport some faded paint, spots of rust, and holes in the upholstery with the headliner hanging down. 

I am speaking from experience.   I bought my first collector car in 1975 – a 1929 Studebaker Commander plain Jane four door sedan in original unrestored condition.   It was followed by a 1928 Studebaker President which I found in a barn also in unrestored original condition.   My current car is again a mostly original (some things “restored” most not) a 1929 Studebaker President Brougham.   In 42 years in this hobby I have never had a restored shinny collector car.  However, I have had many years of pleasure driving all over the place in cars that some would have turned up their noses at.   Everyone finds their own niche in this hobby. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

21 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

...I would not be seen in some old car with all the "original" paint, but it was mostly rubbed through to primer, or worse, to rust.  If I ever got a car like that, complete with rusty bumpers and pitted chrome, it would more likely be the first car in my new to be formed junkyard....  

 

In the Hershey original-features class a few years ago,

there was a CarterCar circa 1914, all original.

It had the original pin-striping to document what the

CarterCar factory produced 100 years prior;

the ribbed rubber floor matting had a large "CarterCar"

logo molded in.

 

If someone were to restore it, he would undoubtedly

get ribbed rubber flooring out of a catalogue, completely

devoid of the original logo, since the original hasn't been

available for 90 years.

 

So isn't history worth preserving!

[1937hd45]

4 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

 

Following your logic a rusty old "unrestored. original paint" car should be allowed to continue deteriorating. By collecting the car and moving it into a nice dry garage you are interrupting that process. You are emphasizing how the car was allowed to deteriorate. You are certainly not showcasing its originality unless cars came from the factory with worn upholstery and rusty body panels. I too enjoy seeing cars that have not been touched for many decades. They provide a snapshot of some period in times past but tell us little about how they looked when new.

     4 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Guess you won't be spending any of your time in the Mullin Collection, will you? Your shop may make $2,000 putting tires on the OP Model T Tudor vs $20,000+ to repaint it to look like all the other "restored" T's, but the world would have lost another as found barn find. Bob

[Pilgrim65]

Enjoyed reading with interest all the various extremely literate and colourful views , However Probably  on the fence with this issue as I have  a Middle ground view , which therefore excludes the extremes of both camps 

Such that I love original and barn finds , and understand  how you can and appreciate them , if they are still a reflection of original and in state which still allows my sort of enjoyment. I.e. Being to sit in and drive , can live with patina , rust , holes in upholstery etc ,but don't appreciate the idea of keeping wrecks unless there is sum intention to improve at some time. 

Being lucky enough to have a pretty good restored car , not concours ,but mechanically dependable , I am able to enjoy excursions , meets etc , so fulfils my requirement . However my requirements would not be anymore fullfilled by a showroom concours car or any less if she was what you term a daily driver, in fact a showroom car could be a liability for me personally as storage and maintenance issues are more vital.  That's me,

My conclusion , how we enjoy our hobby or obtain enjoyment from it plus our views relating to its aspects are down to the  individual , and that's what makes this forum.

cheers 

pilgrim

[Buffalowed Bill]

I truly feel sorry for  the man who has not been able to adapt to the changes that have occurred over the last twenty plus years in the old car hobby. When I use the term man it's referring to no particular man, just a general term. This man was probably a perfectionist  who demanded excellence in everything that he had and did, but especially in his cars. Unfortunately achieving perfection is a hard won battle, and once attained is virtually impossible to maintain. When this man was young he probably could do at least some of his own work, or had the resources to have someone competent do it for him. Today he has to pick his battles more carefully. Physically, financially and emotionally the  challenges can become overwhelming, as he sees time running out on his attempt to attain or maintain excellence.  

 

During the late eighties through the middle nineties there was a flurry of activity in the hobby as "Boomers" jumped into the market. Costs began to rise with the increase in demand for restoration and customizing services. IMHO there were many cars during this period that deserved to be preserved, but instead received a concourse restoration or were street rodded. For everyone else but the perfectionist the cost increases meant that there had to be another focus if they were to be able to be happy and stay in the hobby. For some hobbyists this meant resorting to the rat rod, but for the more mainstream it meant that all that was really necessary was to maintain their good originals to the best of their ability. Neither of these options would be acceptable to our perfectionist. He would continue to worry about the things that he had lost control of in his own search for perfection, but even worse he could not adapt to the changes in hobbies standards. For him the hobby should be just one big concourse d elegance, but the hobby is not even close to this today!

 

Happily, starting in the nineties people began to look to the original car as a if there was an important story to be told. The history of the car and the story of it's survival became an important focus. The how, why and by whom became at least as important as shinny paint. Sadly our perfectionist will never understand how important the story has become and how much enjoyment can be experienced by sharing it with those who show interest. 

 

I've been on both on both sides. I have several award winning cars, one of which I showed at Pebble Beach. My focus began to change in the nineties as I began to see what was happening in the hobby. I passed on a number of project cars, sold others that I was not going to get to, and focused on original cars that needed very little work. This has allowed me to save and enjoy many more cars then I ever could have if restoration had remained my goal.

[Dynaflash8]

Well, I got lots of action didn't I?  I liked the response from Terry Bond.  The CarterCar is an extreme example of a car that should not be restored unless ever detail can be duplicated.  A pre-war straight 8 Buick?  Virtually every part in original style is available NOS or in reproduction from 1936 forward.  The 1939 convertible in the picture was my car.  It was a barn find, and some would say it was "original", but it wasn't.  The headlight tell you immediately.  They are sealed beam.  Some of the paint may have been original, but the left front door was blue on the inside, indicating a previous wreck. The engine was a 1951 version.  The wheels were 15 -inch.  The front seat and back seat were original.  The front was torn up but it was a pattern, but the back seat and opera seats were original and in good condition.  All of the sidepanels were gone and the top was gone, but had remains of a 1950 style plastic top.  The car was basically a worn out wreck that had been patched poorly over the years.  It was original enough to make like new.  I did, and it won an AACA National Award, authentic to the last nut and bolt.  That's what I believe in, sorry.  That's the way the hobby was in 1962 when I joined, and how I learned the hobby.  The repaint on this car was so old it would have passed the standards of many for being original, and it was faded to a lighter color.  Everybody has the right to enjoy a car however they think is right.  I just prefer a car to be like it came from the factory, not as it ended up after years of loving or not-so-loving use.  And don't try to sell me a car with a worn out paint job, but many changes and repairs and then tell me it is still "unbelievably" original.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

14 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

     4 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Guess you won't be spending any of your time in the Mullin Collection, will you? Your shop may make $2,000 putting tires on the OP Model T Tudor vs $20,000+ to repaint it to look like all the other "restored" T's, but the world would have lost another as found barn find. Bob

 

You hit the nil on the head exactly. "As found" is much different from "original". No one knows what was done to a car over the last 60-70 years. Folks tend to assume that any old car they find is totally original and has never been touched. Right now we are doing some mechanical work on a '38 Ford. The owner came to us wanting a full restoration and willing to pay for it. We convinced him that the car was too "original" to be restored. We are limiting the work to mechanics and some upholstery repair.

[1937hd45]

13 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

 

You hit the nil on the head exactly. "As found" is much different from "original". No one knows what was done to a car over the last 60-70 years. Folks tend to assume that any old car they find is totally original and has never been touched. Right now we are doing some mechanical work on a '38 Ford. The owner came to us wanting a full restoration and willing to pay for it. We convinced him that the car was too "original" to be restored. We are limiting the work to mechanics and some upholstery repair.

Ok, glad we are on the same page, and the '38 Ford will be saved. Newcomers to AACA need to know that "Vocabulary" and proper word choice is one of the most important features in any Club or Forum discussions. The Vintage Motorcycle hobby was 30 years ahead of everyone else on preserving original features and paint. The diehard Model A people turn out better restorations in MARC & MAFCA award winning cars than most AACA winners with accepted aftermarket parts, You can spot the difference from ten feet away most times. Bob

[Restorer32]

I have a Model A Tudor. Even after 37 years restoring professionally I cannot honestly tell if most of the paint is original or redone sometime in the 1950's. I chose to leave the car as it is because much of it, including the interior is original. A bit deteriorated but original. The sad thing is there are not enough "original" cars around that can be driven and enjoyed as is. Occasionally on these forums you will see someone looking for a part that is less deteriorated than what is currently on their car. Their plan is to replace the deteriorated part on their " barn find survivor" car in an effort to make it more "original". Makes me smile every time. Time is a one way street. No U turns allowed.

[Terry Bond]

One of the best things AACA has done on the show-field was to bring about HPOF to encourage the preservation of unrestored cars.  I've noted a tremendous increase in the numbers of 50s-60s unrestored vehicles that are simply being maintained and enjoyed. 

terry

[Dynaflash8]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

 

You hit the nil on the head exactly. "As found" is much different from "original". No one knows what was done to a car over the last 60-70 years. Folks tend to assume that any old car they find is totally original and has never been touched. Right now we are doing some mechanical work on a '38 Ford. The owner came to us wanting a full restoration and willing to pay for it. We convinced him that the car was too "original" to be restored. We are limiting the work to mechanics and some upholstery repair.

In my opinion when you do all that mechanical work, it's still no longer "origianal".  Be sure it doesn't have a 41 or 50 Ford engine in it.  The Buicks were changed all along, especially after 1949 when they offered a whole new 1949 bolt-in engine at the dealerships.

[Dynaflash8]

58 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

I have a Model A Tudor. Even after 37 years restoring professionally I cannot honestly tell if most of the paint is original or redone sometime in the 1950's. I chose to leave the car as it is because much of it, including the interior is original. A bit deteriorated but original. The sad thing is there are not enough "original" cars around that can be driven and enjoyed as is. Occasionally on these forums you will see someone looking for a part that is less deteriorated than what is currently on their car. Their plan is to replace the deteriorated part on their " barn find survivor" car in an effort to make it more "original". Makes me smile every time. Time is a one way street. No U turns allowed.

I had a 1935 Buick Special that I drove on two Glidden Tours and I loaned it out on one Sentimental Tour.  The car looked like it had original black lacquer on it and it was certified in HPOF, but it had been totally repainted back in the mid-1950s with lacquer.  I knew because the hood center molding was painted black.  There were also 1 or 2 small places where the top coat had peeled and the original black was underneath.  I could go on and on.  I've played with late pre-War cars of every brand since I was old enough to walk around and look at them.  Most cars in color were painted black after WWII because the paint was so faded.  I've decided now to leave the thread.  Nothing will change my opinion after 70 years of chasing after my niche of cars.  But, I have no right to continue on and try to change yours.  Everybody deserves to have their own opinion.

[Restorer32]

Can we all agree that if an owner decides to repaint or restore a car it should be done as authentically as possible?

[Terry Bond]

That 35 Buick was a wonderful car Earl, and I'll forever be grateful for you having let us use it on that tour. 

Terry

[Trulyvintage]

My username says it all ......

 

On my trailer for this trip was a documented one owner 1925 Model T Survivor discovered in Dalton, GA.

 

The other is a 1922 Model T Roadster donated to the MTFCA Museum in Richmond, VA that I picked up 

a few days ago in Slidell, GA.

 

The 1925 Model T is the finest documented original one owner Model T I have transported out of well over

100 Model T vehicles .....

 

I was present when the " Rip Van Winkle " Model T was loaded up in Bakersfield, CA a few years ago,

it ended up in the Steve Ames Collection:

 

Rip Van Winkle Model T

 

I transport a variety of classic & antique vehicles.

 

Hands down are the rusty crusty junky dumpy crappy crumbling testaments to the passing of time .....

 

 

Jim

 

 

[F&J]

37 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Can we all agree that if an owner decides to repaint or restore a car it should be done as authentically as possible?

 

 

Honestly? ...no.

 

I only say that for my own area here in Eastern Ct.   I live on a very busy State road that surely would be travelled to get to different bigger towns like during car show season..  I never see prewar stock cars go past my home, except the occasional Model A clubs in groups.

 

I see some stock/nice original or restored very late 50s to late 60s, but nothing older. (some of these seem to be daily driven commuters during nice weather months!).  I do see a very, very small amount of prewar old style hotrods and just a couple of prewar streetrods per year.

 

I can only assume that the prewar owners just don't want to drive on a road that averages 48 to 55 MPH and have to deal with tailgating texters?

 

So, I'd rather see more prewars out on the roads again, where they can be appreciated, even if that means some are not 100% authentic.  I don't have a problem with a person changing to more hill pulling power, better gearing or OD transmissions and brakes....if it means the car will finally get driven more.  This must be why I only see late 50s and 60s, because they can handle the modern State roads?

 

The prewar hobby simply died around here, I saw many more back in the 1970s than now.  I also saw more interest from the public back then.  One of my older diehard prewar friends says: "nobody wants this old chit anymore"

.

[A. Ballard 35R]

5 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Can we all agree that if an owner decides to repaint or restore a car it should be done as authentically as possible?

 

Absolutely. I'm not sure if a 1916 Packard twin six that I used to own would qualify as original based on the standards required by Dynaflash. The car was purchased by my father in 1943 from the original owner and had less than 14,000 miles on it as verified by the log book with every entry since new including gas purchases. The paint was very faded, the only original tires have been relegated to the spare tire holder, and many years ago the lead seal on the generator was broken to adjust the charging. Certainly these changes would disqualify the car as being original; however, it won the Van Sciver award for most original car at the 1946 AACA Devon Fall Meet and is still being shown in it's original condition by the present owner.

[mercer09]

 

ANYTHING can be restored, the unrestored, original paint Motorcycles and Cars are special. You either understand their uniqueness or you don't. I'm sorry so many cars were ruined with restorations over the last 50 years so a $5.00 bowling trophy with a car on top could be placed on the owners shelf. Bob

 

 

x2         not sure if anyone could really embarrass me......................

 

there is a gentleman many on here might know, who restores Mercers.........including causing the paint to have a crackle finish and the tires rubbed down with mud and straw at shows.............

AnniesSS, A. Ballard 35R, John_S_in_Penna and 1 other like this

 

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[Xander Wildeisen]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:29 AM, 60FlatTop said:

From the late 1930's the hobby evolved and became more discerning in the quality and standards for what became accepted as a true "collector car" even a sense of the traditional rose in the hot rod and custom cultures.

What we see in barn finds, survivors, even rat rods and their derivatives is simply a counter culture movement, nothing more. Some are more "in your face" that others. It is people and groups of people seeking individuality, an identity, and making statements to free oneself (or one's group) from the expected. A lot of them are products of society's neutralization through lame media, homogenized education, and a touch of high fructose corn syrup. They have little personality and strive for identity through a logo hat, becoming a fantasy hero, or attracting attention through AGM's. Yes, a crappy looking car is an AGM. One can get heads to turn by driving past in a 100 pint restoration or some totally tired iron. Which group of individualists do you want to follow?

It is what some call managing the people's soft skills.

 

Aren't you glad you put that topic out.

 

It's always the same. You get one really neat individual out there and everyone wants to be an individual just like them.

Bernie

Your posts do take me on a journey, but go easy on the hat thing. Embroidered, leather bill, I give one to every customer. PM me your address, and I will send you one and a shirt. I guess I will go for a walk now, and look for my identity. 

[Mark Huston]

I went for a drive today, in the Sacramento River Delta, with my buddy in our 1929s.   I drove my original faded paint 1929 Studebaker President and my buddy drove his beautifully restored 1929 Studebaker Dictator.   We both enjoyed ourselves, had fun, and an equally great time despite the vast differences in the quality of our vehicles.

[lump]

A wonderful old original car in nice condition can only be "unrestored" once. And nice examples of these are many, MANY times more rare than restored cars.

 

For example, take a walk down a row of fairly common wonderful collector cars, like Mustangs or tri-five Chevy's at a big major car show. Nearly every one of them is restored nicely. Shiny paint, shiny chrome, reproduction parts all over them. After a LONG lifetime in this hobby, I must admit that I have seen so many of some of the more common models, that it's sort of getting hard to get terribly excited about many of them. But now and then I will be walking down a row of show cars and see something really really special. Like an early car which was stored away long, long ago with very few miles, in very nice condition. Such a vehicle is really a time capsule. It can be closely examined to see how the original assembly line workers applied body seam filler, or rubber flaps to fender wells, or how they ran spark plug wire looms, or how fasteners were installed, etc, etc, etc.

 

I have owned many, many collector cars, and still own a couple. I have been to major car show events in most areas of our nation. I have ridden in super rare classic cars before I was old enough to drive, and sat in one-off super-rare factory "dream cars." 

 

I don't have any interest in changing the opinion of anyone else. But I can spend all day staring at a beautiful unrestored original car or truck...while enjoying casual glances at many nice restored examples. 

[1937hd45]

Can we see a show of hands and your reasoning why this car needs a restoration? Ford spent over 3 million to save it. Bob

Edited March 3, 2017 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[cxgvd]

Old 16 is a treasure.  Gary

[mercer09]

Mark,

 

dont tell your buddy, but I'ld take your car hands down.  It's got "the look".

 

His doesnt.............

 

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[Steve_Mack_CT]

+1 Mercer.  Mark that car of yours has a lot of eyeball!!

 

I appreciate both actually, always did but 20 years ago I might have taken the restored car, lately I have been gravitating towards cars like Mark's.  Either of those appeal to me, and can be enjoyed a little differently but all good.

[WendyDee]

Interesting Views, Gentlemen.  Here's my personal take; I live alone, pay a mortgage, utilities, and a few other neccessities......I also love cars.  I found my previously loved 49 Buick not running  for very cheap on CL. When I have a little extra cash, I do things like inexpensive interior and mechanical improvements to make her run and stop.  I will not put forth the money to make her "Pretty" because it's just not in the budget.  However I will absolutely enjoy driving her every mile I do, knowing that I made her road worthy, and I will raise my niece to know the beauty of an old unrestored car.  Don't get me wrong, I respect those that put forth the money and time to restore or customize, but I see my boyfriend with these kind of cars sitting in trailers and garages because he doesn't want anything to happen to them so they go undriven.  Instead he drives the '35 Ford Panel Rat Rod because it isn't a pristine paint job and one little flaw will go unnoticed.   The idea of my Buick and many others rotting away in a yard or crushed as scrap makes me depressed.....I think pristine or not the appreciation of these cars needs to be shown for future generations or it will be lost.

[F&J]

38 minutes ago, WendyDee said:

 Don't get me wrong, I respect those that put forth the money and time to restore or customize, but I see my boyfriend with these kind of cars sitting in trailers and garages because he doesn't want anything to happen to them so they go undriven.  Instead he drives the '35 Ford Panel Rat Rod because it isn't a pristine paint job and one little flaw will go unnoticed.   The idea of my Buick and many others rotting away in a yard or crushed as scrap makes me depressed

 

People here, including myself, have said that younger people don't want the old stuff, or don't know how to fix them up for the road.

 

I just took a job in from a 25 year old guy.  He ended up with a 34 Ford dual wheel truck from the huge farm business family he is part of.  The truck really looked hopeless and falling apart, so he said "rat rod is ok".  He said the crushed/damaged roof and metal rot will not allow something decent to happen.

 

I have been working on the loosey-goosey cab, and I just now unbolted the roof and rear back panel.  Only took an hour fighting rusted bolts, but it will now let me fix all the bent/rotted metal quicker and cheaper.

 

He might just see that there is hope to make it nicer than a rat.

[Curti]

Good for you Wendy, you are my kind of gal. That Buick will be fun for many years to come.