Opinion of value for insurance purposes'57 Retractable.

[victorialynn2]

I'm updating values of cars for insurance. Any opinions of this '57 Ford Retractable? Haven't spent much time on it because I'm keeping it. I see prices all over the place on these. They made them '57 to '59. Anyone own one?

I consider this an investment. Any opinions on where values for this are heading? Has the continental kit also. More pics:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1j_Rb5rf7tybHBwb3hZOGxZWkk

Edited February 26, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[Frantz]

For me the first step is to make sure the insurance is an agreed upon value, otherwise you're paying for one thing, but really getting covered for their version of "reality". This car was your dads right? So it's value to you is higher, and ya know what, insurance is cheap. If there was a really bad accident you'd probably want enough to fix it even if it was beyond what others might do. I'd insure it based on repairs and restoration cost if possible. If you look at NADA the values are very wide spread there as well. Beautiful car! I love '50s Ford Convertibles, I think it's one of Fords greatest decades.

[victorialynn2]

Yes we have JC Taylor agreed value. Currently 50k. It's really nice. Runs, drives, hardtop works. Dads favorite and he was a mechanic from the Air Force and has always taken care of his cars. I sold several that had been sitting for several years. Threw batteries in, a little carb work and they ran like a dream. 

My understanding is it is hard to find parts for this so I don't drive it. Start it, wash it and admire it only. It would be impossible to restore if it was wrecked so it's an investment. He won lots of ribbons with it. 

[edinmass]

Ok, I'll kick over the hornets nest. It's a great car. I find it interesting, and it looks in great shape. It isn't an investment. It's a toy. A piece of American history. Fun to drive and show. If you don't use it on the open road and enjoy it, it's a large expense of taxes, matainance, insurance, storage, time, and a loss of the time value of money. I understand keeping it for sentimental reasons, and that is a good of a reason as any other. I make my living in the car world. I have owned and operated a large modern repair garage along with a large rental car fleet and used car license. I have been in the old car hobby for forty five years. I have owned some of the worlds greatest cars, and currently still do. I'll offer this piece of advice that I have given to people many times. Unless YOU like the car and intend to participate with it in the hobby(any or all aspects), sell it. The car is unlikely to appreciate in value and probably won't keep up with inflation. 

 

My similar situation to yours  and your fathers, I promised my dad something on his deathbed. His only regret in life was not finishing a restoration he started thirty years before. It was a 1931 Cadillac Fleetwood Cabriolet. It was in terrible condition when purchased thirty years before and we spent twenty five years at Hershey finding all the missing parts. I knew it would still require 250 thousand dollars to finish the restoration. He soon passed after I made the promise, and I intended to keep mine and finish the car in my retirement. Several years passed, and a collector with hundreds of cars stopped by my shop to look at another one of my cars for details on one of his current restorations. He saw my fathers car in the corner and asked about it.......... I knew if he acquired it he would restore it properly and display it in his museum. I sold him the car and another parts car for a song...........knowing I would save myself 400k of my retirement savings. I made the deal, even though I wouldn't finish the car myself, the promise would be kept. I asked the new owner to let me drive the car when it was done. Two years later he called me and said, come on over on Friday, the car will be ready for its first drive. He kept his promise to me, and I drove the 100 point car down a dirt road with snow and mud for the first time. It hadn't run in more than fifty years. I cried the entire time I drove it, with my local car buddies looking on.........it was an incredible day. I was finally able to let my father go that spring morning, years after he passed. It was the day I came to terms with his passing and our relationship. I don't regret for a second selling the car to get it done. It was the right thing to do, and the car has a special place in the museum. I visit the car more often than my fathers resting place, as I am sure he would want it that way. 

 

Maybe be the best place for your Ford sometime in the future, is some where your dad would approve of it if he could. Take you time and figure it out. I think your doing a great job dealing with all of your dads cars. My best, Ed

Edited February 27, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

Thanks for the info Ed. BTW, that's my dads name too. It doesn't cost a thing to keep it but a small amount for insurance.

Yes, there is a lot of sentimental value. Maybe I will drive it to car shows. Not a bad car for that. Keeping a tradition dad had and I enjoy. 

If not an investment financially, then one in sentiment. 

Many opinion of value?

[Curti]

Geeez  Ed, that brought a tear to my eye !

[Frantz]

Quote

My understanding is it is hard to find parts for this so I don't drive it.

 

"hard to find parts for" is both relative, and not a good reason not to enjoy it the way your dad did! I'm young, but I know the guys and gals here remember a time before the internet marketplace took off. Swap meets where the only place to find parts, and most parts weren't being repopped except for the very most popular models. Again, I'm young, but I certainly remember finding parts for my early interest in AMCs a wild goose chase. Much of that has changed. Aside from the internment making the market place broad, technology has allowed for production on demand for many things, and one off parts are much more affordable than they were before. The competition has made the quality of the parts better as well. Chances are, whoever told you parts for your '57 are hard to come by either doesn't own an old car, or else they have a Mustang. I own a '54 Ford Fordor and about the only stuff I've had to look for a little harder is the 239 OHV stuff, as it's the only year for a Y block in that body, and the 239 was one year only as well. But it's out there! Seriously enjoy it!

I think $50k is probably realistic. I don't know that you could get that in a sale easily without seeing it in person, but it's worth insuring for that much.

[nick8086]

  I ask him the next time I see him..

Edited February 27, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

16 minutes ago, Frantz said:

I think $50k is probably realistic. I don't know that you could get that in a sale easily without seeing it in person, but it's worth insuring for that much.

If you saw it in person you'd be impressed. Really beautiful. 

[victorialynn2]

And I have to say... My instinct is this car will go up in value. My expertise is in real estate but damn this is a pretty car. 

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

I agree with Frantz

$50,000 , not less

[padgett]

Also now that retractables are popular again (Merc SL, Audi, Cadillac) that should enhance the value.

[victorialynn2]

I will sell it right now for 100k. Any takers? Lol

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

... I find it interesting, and it looks in great shape. It isn't an investment. It's a toy. A piece of American history.

Fun to drive and show. If you don't use it on the open road and enjoy it, it's a large expense of taxes, maintenance,

insurance, storage, time, and a loss of the time value of money. I understand keeping it for sentimental reasons...

 

Victoria Lynn, your Ford retractable looks like a nice car!

I agree with what Ed said.  Keep a car if you enjoy it,

but its true "investment" is an investment in fun.  A good diversified

growth-stock portfolio will increase, on average, at least 10% per year;

if antique cars overall did that for an extended period, no one would

be able to afford the hobby!

 

At best, an antique car is a storehouse of value, and it may

keep up with inflation.  However, you'll want to drive it at least

200-300 miles a year, taking it out at least every couple of months.

Not only will driving it let you enjoy it and share it with others, but you will

find that the car will run properly only if it is driven.

 

If an antique car is not driven, it will end up needing mechanical work,

it will be unreliable, and its owner may not find ownership so pleasureable.  

Under those circumstances, the car will actually go down in value.

No one can predict which cars will be  most popular in the decades to come,

so don't focus on the monetary aspect.  If you become active with it

in an antique-car club, making friendships and sharing interesting

activities along with your car, you'll have more enjoyment than you can count! 

Edited February 27, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I couldn't agree more with John S, a perfect statement and a true and correct understanding of the hobby.

Edited February 27, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history)

[tomcarnut]

Victoria,

I always enjoy your post since I am dealing with some of the same issues. My father died a little over a year ago and my mother has declined rapidly with Alzheimer's. I am very blessed that I do not have to deal with financial aspects that you have had to deal with. Dad willed me six collector cars ranging from a 1911 Ford to a 1996 Buick Roadmaster. Since I have five collector cars, it took some time to make room for Dad's. We were able to take my Mom on several tours in couple of their cars last year. She also got a couple rides in the 1911 Model T Ford. She has trouble feeding herself now and can not carry on a conversation. While waiting with her for a doctors appointment last week, I was showing her pictures of Dad's cars. She did not say anything until she saw the 1911 and said Model T. Yesterday I showed her letters from several of their local AACA club members that have written to her several times over the last year. Until recently, she remembered all of them.  The point of my comments is the friendships you develop in the car hobby can be long  lasting.  My parents along with myself and my wife loved and still love going on tours. I do a few shows but prefer driving back country roads seeing others car collections, historical places in between stops at cool diners and ice cream parlors. A 59 Ford retract is great car for touring. A friend who is now 95 drove one back to Ohio from California for another friend in the 1970's. He loved the drive with top down most of the way.  They can ride at highway speeds to get to tours and have plenty of room for luggage on overnight trips. AACA and VMCCA have local clubs that do seasonal monthly tours. They also have national weeklong tours around the country. While the hobby is dominated by mostly guys, we have few ladies in our local clubs. One grew up like you with old cars with her father. Two others are widows that have stayed involved with hobby after the passing of their husbands. In fact one has been posting several car events in Florida this past week on Facebook while visiting some snowbird car friends from Cincinnati. One of my Dad's cars is 1957 Ford T Bird with 24000 miles he bought new and brought me home in 1958 and other than a trip in 1957 to Colorado, never seen rain. It runs like a new car. Yes it is worth about the same as your retract given its condition.  I plan to put on new tires(two are original recaps) and drive it some on local tours and maybe take it to an AACA meet like Auburn to get an HPOF certification. Weather it is the 1911 Model T Ford we drove on a 200 mile Model T Jamboree or my Mom's 67 Camero Rally Sport Convt we drove 500 miles last year on tours, driving them brings back lot of good memories of my parents and creates lots of new memories and friends. GET THAT RETRACT ON THE ROAD and enjoy it.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[JACK M]

Hey Vic,

Should I be looking for that car 'Cruisin the Gut' in Mac this year?

I'd love to ride along.

[60FlatTop]

If you don't get the car out you will never be able to take a picture like this.

Bernie

[victorialynn2]

8 hours ago, JACK M said:

Hey Vic,

Should I be looking for that car 'Cruisin the Gut' in Mac this year?

I'd love to ride along.

 

 

That is something I really want to do. It just depends on when it makes sense to ship it to OR.

 

If it does make it this year, you may have to drive! Haha

Edited February 28, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

Thank you everyone. I admit I'm scared of the car. I think it's because of the size, but possibly also because of what it means to my dad. A lot of people are telling me to drive it because it needs it. I'm working myself up to that. First I need to get a new set of tires. I think they have issues from sitting too long, although they look fine. I base this on a quick drive in it last summer. I wasn't driving, though. LOL Actually, the only one of my father's cars I drove was the '70 Bronco. I couldn't resist. The rest I have refused to drive.

 

Speaking of tires, I read in another thread that the Coker whitewalls were bleeding through. Does anyone know if that has been fixed? I hate to invest all that money into whitewalls that will turn gray or black. My dad saved a bunch of the white wall parts from other tires. Anyone know why?

Edited February 28, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

3 minutes ago, victorialynn2 said:

Thank you everyone. I admit I'm scared of the car. I think it's because of the size, but possibly also because of what it means to my dad. A lot of people are telling me to drive it because it needs it. I'm working myself up to that. First I need to get a new set of tires. I think they have issues from setting too long, although they look fine. I base this on a quick drive in it last summer. I wasn't driving, though. LOL

 

Actually, the only one of my father's cars I drove was the '70 Bronco. I couldn't resist. The rest I have refused to drive.

After my Dad died and left me the Buick, I was nervous to drive it. 

Dad's last words to me from his death bed were,

"Take care of your Mama. And take care of my Car"

Each time I drive it, I'm more comfortable than the previous time. 

At first, I wouldn't take it past the first traffic light.

After a few months, I took it on a 200 mile day trip.

[victorialynn2]

Just now, JamesBulldogMiller55Buick said:

After my Dad died and left me the Buick, I was nervous to drive it. 

Dad's last words to me from his death bed were,

"Take care of your Mama. And take care of my Car"

Each time I drive it, I'm more comfortable than the previous time. 

At first, I wouldn't take it past the first traffic light.

After a few months, I took it on a 200 mile day trip.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying. It took me months before I could go into his garages without balling, then more months to consider selling any cars. I'd refuse to watch them be loaded and driven away. I've come a long way from that, but I still have things to work on. I think as long as I have so many other things to distract me from dealing with the '57, it's going to be hard to go there. 

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

At one time, many years ago, Dad had fifteen plus collector cars. He eventually sold them off except the Roadmaster.

Among the collection was a '66 Lincoln convertible , with top stowing away in the trunk like your Ford retractable. 

I thought the coolest thing was to park it at a show with the front hinged hood up, and the trunk lid in the air and the suicide doors opened.

Those Retractable , hardtops, T Bird conv and Lincoln conv are the coolest

Edited February 28, 2017 by JamesBulldogMiller55Buick (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

1 minute ago, JamesBulldogMiller55Buick said:

At one time, many years ago, Dad had fifteen plus collector cars. He eventually sold them off except the Roadmaster.

Among the collection was a '66 Lincoln convertible , with top stowing away in the trunk like your Ford retractable. 

I thought the coolest thing was to park it at a show with the front hinged hood up, and the trunk lid in the air and the suicide doors opened.

Those Retractable , hardtops, T Bird conv and Lincoln conv are the coolest

5

My dad had about a dozen when I started and I've had to sell them. It's been emotionally difficult, but getting easier. Dismantling his garage just feels wrong to me. 

 

I have always loved to see the retractables like that (mid-retraction) at shows. I've even seen them in parades with the top going up and down while driving slowly. My dad always said people would be in awe when they saw the top going up or down. He loved the attention it got him. 

 

I had a boyfriend with a '98 Mercedes SLK. I drove it a lot last summer. It also has the retractable roof, but it's a 2 seater and so much smaller. I really love that car!

[nick8086]

On 2/26/2017 at 7:15 PM, victorialynn2 said:

And I have to say... My instinct is this car will go up in value. My expertise is in real estate but damn this is a pretty car. 

 

 

The only thing that go up in my world is taxes.. My kaiser cars do not do much..

[Intassage]

@victorialynn2: Car valuations are somewhat of a black art. But there are some things to consider that can inform your decision. I'm in the research business, with a special emphasis on pricing and valuation, and have always had a natural curiosity to figure out what drives value of old cars.

 

One of my former colleagues worked for a Boston bank that had special relationships with lots of high net worth individuals. They were advising on investments and loaning money to people that wanted to buy old cars and wanted to know definitively what the market looked like for these high risk investments. My colleague was asked (in the early 80s) to do a study on this subject. What he found was the "wave" of value was just that, a wave. It was tied to men, and what they dreamed about between the time they got their license and about 10 years after that. He found that to predict future value it is necessary to project forward almost an entire working life to the point of that guy's midlife crisis, and about 15 years after that. There you have the value wave, or in business parlance, the demand curve. It resembles a bell if you visualize it on a chart.

 

There are literally hundreds of other value factors that affect what a car is actually worth when it sells (scarcity, popularity, condition, miles, provenance, etc.), but the main factor is that demand curve. I have owned more vehicles over the last 40 years than anyone I know that is not in the business of buying and selling cars. And I've been studying the markets for older car sales since 1998 when I was first turned onto this study. I've seen nothing to suggest that my colleague's conclusions are not accurate. I wish I hadn't sold that 1973 911 E Targa that I bought for $3,500 in 1990 before I figured all this out. I'd have a car that's worth $120K today, and the $90,000 in storage fees between then and now would have been worth it.

 

That said, you now probably realize that most of the people that would be demanding your dad's car are now in a similar condition to your dad. Most of them are older with all sorts of other things to think about than buying cars that they dreamed about in high school or college in large numbers. The market has moved on to newer cars, with some outliers. So statistically, you are on the down-side of the value curve for your dad's car.

 

I agree with the suggestions you see here from people that are say you should consider selling sooner rather than later - or to keep it and drive it for its sentimental value.

[victorialynn2]

On April 3, 2017 at 11:45 PM, Intassage said:

@victorialynn2: Car valuations are somewhat of a black art. But there are some things to consider that can inform your decision. I'm in the research business, with a special emphasis on pricing and valuation, and have always had a natural curiosity to figure out what drives value of old cars.

 

One of my former colleagues worked for a Boston bank that had special relationships with lots of high net worth individuals. They were advising on investments and loaning money to people that wanted to buy old cars and wanted to know definitively what the market looked like for these high risk investments. My colleague was asked (in the early 80s) to do a study on this subject. What he found was the "wave" of value was just that, a wave. It was tied to men, and what they dreamed about between the time they got their license and about 10 years after that. He found that to predict future value it is necessary to project forward almost an entire working life to the point of that guy's midlife crisis, and about 15 years after that. There you have the value wave, or in business parlance, the demand curve. It resembles a bell if you visualize it on a chart.

 

There are literally hundreds of other value factors that affect what a car is actually worth when it sells (scarcity, popularity, condition, miles, provenance, etc.), but the main factor is that demand curve. I have owned more vehicles over the last 40 years than anyone I know that is not in the business of buying and selling cars. And I've been studying the markets for older car sales since 1998 when I was first turned onto this study. I've seen nothing to suggest that my colleague's conclusions are not accurate. I wish I hadn't sold that 1973 911 E Targa that I bought for $3,500 in 1990 before I figured all this out. I'd have a car that's worth $120K today, and the $90,000 in storage fees between then and now would have been worth it.

 

That said, you now probably realize that most of the people that would be demanding your dad's car are now in a similar condition to your dad. Most of them are older with all sorts of other things to think about than buying cars that they dreamed about in high school or college in large numbers. The market has moved on to newer cars, with some outliers. So statistically, you are on the down-side of the value curve for your dad's car.

 

I agree with the suggestions you see here from people that are say you should consider selling sooner rather than later - or to keep it and drive it for its sentimental value.

Thanks for the info. As I have been  liquidating and researching my father's cars for nearly the last three years, I have come to notice that what you are saying is true. It seems to me right now 60 cars are starting to peak and 70's are starting to build. 80's are about at thier bottom. At least as a rule that is what my guess is. I sold a '24 T and '30 A right away because I thought the buyers would eventually disappear. Lol. (Both buyers were in their 70's). 

At any rate I just don't have it in me to sell dad's favorite car yet, especially when I have other cars to focus on. Everyone gave me the advice to drive it and enjoy it. I think a deep sense of emotional loss is stopping me. I'm cleaning out my father's garages and he's always had garages. It's a reality that his end is near which is hard to face. 

I'm sure eventually I will be able to sell it or drive it. Right now I'm just trying to maintain it and keep it insured. 

I appreciate the advice, really I do. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

On February 26, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Curti said:

Geeez  Ed, that brought a tear to my eye !

Mine too. Very touch story that I can relate to. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

Thanks for the info. As I have been  liquidating and researching my father's cars for nearly the last three years, I have come to notice that what you are saying is true. It seems to me right now 60 cars are starting to peak and 70's are starting to build. 80's are about at their bottom....

 

Victoria, I think you are very perceptive about

the popularity of decades of cars!

 

Your keen observation is especially impressive for the fact that

you haven't been in the hobby as much until recently. 

I agree entirely.

[victorialynn2]

9 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Victoria, I think you are very perceptive about

the popularity of decades of cars!

 

Your keen observation is especially impressive for the fact that

you haven't been in the hobby as much until recently. 

I agree entirely.

Thanks John. I have worked very hard to learn as much as I can in the last three years. My background in real estate helps a lot and so does all the help I have received from you and many members here. The help has been invaluable and I have tried to use all the info to speed up my learning curve. I am so very grateful. This forum is one of many I've been on. In some I was treated rudely and others just didn't get the help I have here. 

From the bottom of my heart I thank all of you that have helped guide me in this process. I wouldn't have accomplished what I have without the help.