TXCR13 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I will soon be installing the two piece windshield in my '46 Champion business coupe. Have never installed a split windshield, and need procedures and tips from those who have. Especially interested in the windshield divider/divider seal and sequence and procedure for them. That area looks like a guaranteed leakerr unless done right. Have checked on ADS Forum as well but need more detailed information. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 If it is like the 1940 commander the windshield installs from the inside of the cab. it should tell in the shop manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Tks Studeboy. No gotee shop manual and no one seems to have much detail to offer. Anyone have a Champion shop manual for 41-42-46 that could offer a few more details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Bum for an update. Anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Since no one has stepped in I will share what the procedure is for the 1940 Commander & president.They say remove the old windshield. Next they say to coat the inside channel of the gasket with a 3m EC 31 cement. Then insert a 1/8 inch twine in the outside diameter of the gasket all the way around. Put both pieces of glass in the channel of the weather strip, all the way around.(You will need a second person for this part.) Make sure the center nibs of the gasket snap up between the two pieces of glass. Tie a string around the weather strip and glass in the center of each piece of glass. Make sure the metal to set the seal on the car is thoroughly cleaned. With two men lift the windshield assembly into the cab with the top tilted towards the rear. Lay the bottom edge along the ledges much as possible. Cut the strings around the center of each piece of glass. Tilt the glass up and into place, they recommend using two small pieces of tin 3 by 5 by 1/16 cut to match upper curved corners and lubricated with soap to guide the assembly into place. Push the assembly forward against the body flange all the way around. Press the windshield assembly forward while raising the lip by the removal of the twine (pulled forward from out side the car) also while smoothing out the lip over the body roll. The next is the tricky part. Make two tapered hardwood blocks 1in by 1 in by 7 in. The taper should run the entire length of the blocks. Insert one block between the glasses at the top and the other at the bottom. Work the glass outward by pressing in towards the rear on the wedges and forward toward the body flange on the glasses from the inside. When sufficient space is gained insert the front center weatherstrip, weather strip retainer and moulding. That is an abbreviated version of what the shop manual says. I had a glass company attempt to install mine the first time. They insisted on trying from the outside. They broke the glass. The second time I did it myself with the help of a friend, lots of choice words and lots of patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Thanks, Studeboy. You gave me a lot of information I did not have, and certainly would have struggled mightily without. I was wondering whether the glass was installed from the inside or outside, and particularly about installing the front center weaherstrip/retainer/molding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 The 1940 is installed from the inside. Read the part about the wedges. That is about getting the windshield pieces pushed out far enough to get the center strip in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 TXCR13.....dont forget to take pics as you install it and please post them!! Particulary interested in the center pieces. I got my center piece out but the rubber broke into so many pieces, I am not even sure what it is suppose to look like. There is a metal flat bar with tapped holes...it came out by itself... is it suppose to be molded inside the rubber strip? and does the chrome snap onto the rubber? Or is the rubber molded into the chrome too? any pics of your center strips? I wanted to save my old smoked-over glass as they look like glass art...was going to hang them on the walls, but removal is proving too difficult without breaking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 fh4ever- I can send you some pics of my center piece items. I just bought a replacement rubber piece, so you can get a good look at it, alongside the other items.. Send me a PM with your email and I will get them to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) http://www.studebaker-intl.com New center bars are available from SI. They do not list one for 1940 but you maybe able to trim one of the other ones. The spacing between the screws vary. Edited February 14, 2017 by rbk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvonada Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 fh4ever, if you cut away enough of the old rubber the glass has to come out. No need to break it unless you are in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 tried that....I completely cut away the inside rubber such that the glass should fall out on its own, but its really stuck on the back side Then tried piano wire to cut the back side and got no where. The 80 year rubber has completely bonded itself to the glass and metal at the molecular level...well... not really, but it has bonded well over the years.... its not coming off without a fight...or in pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Commander Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 In Sept they put the windshield in my 1938 Coupe. It was a struggle for a professional shop who deal with glass installation every day. They did install it from the inside. The 1938 Shop Manual had no information on the installation so if your shop manual has information on windshield installation I would sure get a copy of the manual. The manuals are not that expensive and will help on many other items on the car. The center rubber for the M Series truck has the same cross section as your car. I would guess that yours is shorter so you will have to trim the rubber piece. Watch when you trim it down that you retain the proper spacing of the bolt holes or else you will have to fab a new metal section for the interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Water is a rubber lubricant and may be helpful in your job. Do you have a cross section of the rubber e.g. from the new one? If so, it will be clear which side of the steel opening the glass is installed on. From memory from nearly 40 years ago (i.e. unreliable) my 1939 is on the inside and the glass is bigger than the opening. If so, you will have to remove all the outside rubber and then try a paint scraper or similar thin tool around the glass edge to separate the rubber and glass so the glass can go inwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 TXCR13...sorry if it sounds like I am hijacking this thread....but I think it is helping both of us. Your pics of the center piece is greatly appreciated. In trying to save the glass artwork, I cut all the rubber away on the inside, slid thin putty knife between the glass and rubber on the outside....all that was left still hanging on for dear life was the edge of the glass.....added some wd40 in the mix, applied some gentle persuasion while spreading the force in larger areas...just a little more...and ....well......passenger side is out but not in one piece. The thing about 100 year old glass... it is brittle....especially when the laminate is no longer holding the two plates together. One more to go, but I expect the same results. While cutting away the windhsield rubber, it is quite clear the glass does go in from the inside...and it is larger than the opening. I suspect the 46 champion is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Both CowtownCommander and studeboy believe the glass in my '46 will be installed from the rear. As Spinneyhill mentioned, I am going to take a look at my new windshield gasket to see what clues it will give me. In all this detective work I have been doing on this glass job, I also noticed one post which cautioned that the headliner should be in place BEFORE the glass is installed. Apparently the gasket covers a bit of the headliner and it of course would be difficult to tuck the headliner under the gasket?? Can anyone confirm this? This is probably more important to cars in the same stage of restoration as mine, which do not have the headliner installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 TXCR13 do you have metal trim against the rubber on the inside ? my '39 does and the headliner material stops under the trim. Headliner did not go under the rubber ...at least for the windshield. The trim pushes against the rubber windshield seal which also helps stabilizes the rubber keeping the glass firmly in place. I do have a rather large gap in between the glass and it was filled with a filler of some sort (or caulking)....does your rubber trim kit go in between the glass? in your pics it does not appear too. Here is a snapshot of the gap filler piece...it layed flush with the glass, definetly a separate piece and was not part of the inner or outer seal...notice how wide it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvonada Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) My 41 also has metal trim but for the life of me I can't remember if the trim extends around the top of the windshield. I will check tonight. The back window DOES have the headliner tucked under the rubber but I would not expect that to be hard to do after the window is installed. Edited February 16, 2017 by nvonada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Thanks to all for the continued contributions to this thread. It looks like many of us are learning from it, and probably no one more than me, as this is my first Stude. Soooo, if I read things correctly so far, for my '46 Champion Business Coupe, (and apparently several other years/models) this is how it would go. 1. The windshield is installed from inside the car, not outside. 2. Once the gasket and two panes of glass are in place, the panes will need to be separated with wedges enough that the windshield divider assembly/seal can be inserted. 3. The windshield can be installed after the headliner is installed, as the windshield gasket does not lap over the headliner. DRAFT PROCEDURE General procedure (With thanks to studeboy): Remove the old windshield. Coat the inside channel of the gasket with a 3m EC 31 cement. Then insert a 1/8 inch twine in the outside diameter of the gasket all the way around. Put both pieces of glass in the channel of the weather strip, all the way around. (You will need a second person for this part.) Make sure the center nibs of the gasket snap up between the two pieces of glass. Tie a string around the weather strip and glass in the center of each piece of glass. Make sure the metal to set the seal on the car is thoroughly cleaned. With two men lift the windshield assembly into the cab with the top tilted towards the rear. Lay the bottom edge along the ledges much as possible. Cut the strings around the center of each piece of glass. Tilt the glass up and into place, they recommend using two small pieces of tin 3 by 5 by 1/16 cut to match upper curved corners and lubricated with soap to guide the assembly into place. Push the assembly forward against the body flange all the way around. Press the windshield assembly forward while raising the lip by the removal of the twine (pulled forward from out side the car) also while smoothing out the lip over the body roll. The next is the tricky part. Make two tapered hardwood blocks 1in by 1 in by 7 in. The taper should run the entire length of the blocks. Insert one block between the glasses at the top and the other at the bottom. Work the glass outward by pressing in towards the rear on the wedges and forward toward the body flange on the glasses from the inside. When sufficient space is gained insert the front center weatherstrip, weather strip retainer and moulding. I will appreciate any corrections/additions as we build the information. I have seen references to a different 3M product for use with the gasket. We can investigate those further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 One very important thing... the steel body flange the glass fits against must be absolutely flat and rust free for the glass and rubber to fit and seal properly. Examine by placing the glass against it with no rubber. You will see if there are any gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Tks, Spinneyhill. I will add that note to the revised procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 TXCR13.....I am still a little confused on something.....does the outer rubber strip just lay on top of the glass or does it lay on top of the glass and also fit and fill in the gap between the glass? see my pic up above in #17 posting. ...my first thought this was it was a separate piece of rubber...but now I suspect this piece actually broke off from the metal bar. This piece is as wide as the gap and the thickness of the glass....I am wondering if your kit actually fills in the gap or will there be a "cavity" between the glass. your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 FH4EVER- See answers in caps 8 minutes ago, fh4ever said: TXCR13.....I am still a little confused on something.....does the outer rubber strip just lay on top of the glass or does it lay on top of the glass and also fit and fill in the gap between the glass? see my pic up above in #17 posting. ...I BELIEVE THAT THE STRIP YOU REFER TO FITS BETWEEN THE PANES AND FILLS THE GAP. My first thought this was it was a separate piece of rubber...but now I suspect this piece actually broke off from the metal bar. YES, IT PROBABLY DID. MINE SEPARATED INto SO MANY PIECES THAT IT IS HARD TO TELLTHE ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION. This piece is as wide as the gap and the thickness of the glass....I am wondering if your kit actually fills in the gap or will there be a "cavity" between the glass. your thoughts? DONT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE A CAVITY BETWEEN THE PANES. PER ABOVE, THE STRIP FIS BETWEEN THE PANES. (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 TXCR13 ...thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) There are three different center bars remanufactured. One of the three fits the 1938/46 cars after trimming the length. I do not know which one off the three listed by Studebaker International will fit your car. The difference is in the spacing of the threaded inserts. I think that these came from Valerie Hanson. http://www.studebakervendors.com/hansen/index.htm Edited February 17, 2017 by rbk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 TXCR13, We recently sold Mary's dark blue 1946 Business coupe to a gentleman in Florida, so when I saw your thread it kind of took me aback. I could tell from the picture that It's obviously not the same car. She has some pictures that she would share. The pictures may not be as detailed as one would like, but the center divider is in place, as is the windshield. It looks like your car is a bit more of a challenge then the one we had, but worthy of your efforts. Thanks for undertaking the project of this rather rare car. I as a member of the Studebaker fraternity solute you!-Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just received a copy of a 41-41 Studebaker passenger car and 5G Skyway Champion shop manual. There is nothing in it about installing the windshield, side windows, or window mechanisms, like I really need and hoped there would be. Do I have the wrong manual? I understand that there is a lot of commonality between the 1941, 1942 and 1946 Champions. Is there another version of the manual that might be more helpful? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 TXCR13... I wonder the exact same thing about my 39 shop manual...its a reprint copy and it is quite limited on detail. I often wondered if there is another "extended version" out there. My chassis catalog has been more helpful at times than the shop manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvonada Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 The Motor's manuals from that era have a lot of useful info and of course cover a lot of different years and models. They show up on e-bay and in used book stores all the time. Seems like someone should sell a digital copy of those but I have not found one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I have and rely on the Motors Manual way more than the Studebaker manual...however it does not seem to cover body items like the windshield, just the mechanical stuff. I have a copy of the '51 ford truck factory shop manual and it is very very detailed of all aspects of the truck...which is what I thought I was getting when I bought the Stude manual. Like TXCR13 is asking...is there another factory shop manual out there that is more complete? and maybe what he and I have are just repair manuals for the owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think you have the shop manual. The one for the 1939 and 1940 commanders and presidents is helpful. But it was not well worded. They could have used a good editor. The portion in the back on green paper I found the most helpful. It gives step by step procedures but sometimes you have read and reread it to get what they are saying. Books like Motors Manuals are much better written. You can easily understand what they are saying. They obviously had much more money spent on the writing, review and editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 got my windshield rubber and center strip in today. Now I can see the section of rubber on the center strip that goes in between the glass. The center strip belongs to a truck but it can work on the commander...just a little trimming off the ends seems to be all that is required. The screw holes are the correct spacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 7:12 AM, fh4ever said: Like TXCR13 is asking...is there another factory shop manual out there that is more complete? and maybe what he and I have are just repair manuals for the owner? I don't recall ever seeing or reading about a "body manual". If anybody knows it will be Richard Quinn and he hasn't said anything so there probably wasn't such a manual. If you can get the back issue(s) of the ASR or TW with articles about the model year of interest, the literature published is listed in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 Hello all- I just now got the windshield in my '46, after lots of delays. I posted the write up on SDC Forum, and will soon post it here as well, barring any technical issues. THANKS again to all those who contributed information. It sure helped me a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) This will recap our experience installing a split windshield with reveal molding in a 1946 Champion Business Coupe. There certainly are other materials and methods to do this job, but hopefully this will add to the overall base of knowledge for installing split windshields, as there seems to be very little information available about how to do it, either online or in Studebaker literature. Two experienced glass installers worked together on the job. The 1946 Champion split windshield is installed from inside the car, not outside. Before starting, make sure the windshield pinch weld area is free of lumps of body filler, or bends that could cause a pressure point on the glass and break it, or cause a leak. Clean the area where the gasket will seal to get rid of any oil or grease. Avoid putting water or other lubricants on the gasket or glass at this time, as it could prevent the glass bedding compound from sealing. If the glass is cleaned, let it dry before inserting it into the gasket. We first put both windshield pieces in the gasket on a work table outside the car (without the divider bar) and then attempted to install the glasses together as one unit. This did not work for us and the attempt was ended quickly, as it was just too much to handle for this application. We made sure that the two internal rectangular "tabs" on the gasket which separate the windshield pieces were centered on the glass, and in the windshield opening in the car. Next, the gasket with only the passenger side glass in it, was installed using the rope in method. Working from the inside, tilt the top of the glass toward the rear of the car. Push the lower edge of the glass out over the center of the windshield opening, and begin to rope the glass in. There are a number of detailed videos for the rope method available, so I will not add anything about it except to say make sure a very strong cord is used, as it has to be pulled pretty hard and a break would be a real mess. Personally, I would avoi a cotton or jute cord, and use either nylon or polyester. The large suction handles used by the installers were VERY key tools in positioning the glass. Also, the installers had metal hooks which were a big help in pulling the gasket into position over the body and glass. I bought a couple of small, inexpensive suction tools at Harbor Freight to use, but we ended up using the installer's cups. You will be miles ahead to use the cups. After the first glass was in, the gasket was pushed into place on the driver's side to check the fit and do any repositioning required. Then the driver's side glass inserted into it, and roped into place. The glass was then pushed with the cups and bumped into position fully seated in the gasket, and gasket to the body was pushed with fingers to seat fully on the body. Most of the information I have been able to review indicates that that the glass will leak if the gaskets aren't sealed. 3M part number 08509 Auto Bedding and Glazing Compound sealer was used and it is messy to cleanup, as other users have stated. I used a non-petroleum based wax and grease remover on terry cloth for clean up. It requires more work, but I believe is easier on the paint than mineral spirits or some other options. We chose to add the sealer after the gasket and glass were installed, as it was much less messy than roping the gasket over a bead of sealer placed on the body first. A really useful thing we did was to put masking tape around the gasket before applying the sealer, both on the body and on the glass. The excess sealer ended up on the tape and it was very easy to remove it. We put sealer between the gasket and the body, and between the gasket and the glass. It helped to have a very small tip cut on the tube when doing this, and one of the guys pulled a gasket hook in front of the sealer tube so the tip could fit into the tighter spaces. The sealer is thick, so take your time. Two tubes was enough to install the windshield, quarter windows and back glass. At this point, it was time for the reveal molding stainless trim, and it was quite a challenge. It appears that the reproduction gasket we had does not have grooves as large for the trim as the original gasket. The installers used some spray silicon lubricant at this point to help the molding move into place. The technique which worked best for us was to push the lower, inner end of one piece of molding into the grooves at the lower, outer edge of the gasket. Once it was in the groove, push the molding toward the windshield divider, keeping it as flat as you can against the gasket, and working it into the grooves. Then work around the lower corner, up the vertical, and to center with the upper part of the trim. It took a lot of bumping with the heel of the hand, use of the hook and pushing hard with fingers. Repeat process for the other side. Next was the center windshield divider. The divider is pictured disassembled. It is made up of (in this order) the outer stainless divider trim, the triangular rubber seal with internal metal strip that wedges onto the stainless trim, the flat rubber strip, the interior trim piece, and the screws for the assembly. The stainless trim and triangular seal are assembled together before being installed between the glasses. It was a little tricky to work the triangular rubber seal into position in the stainless piece as it was a very tight fit. The edges of the stainless trim snap into grooves on each side of the seal and you will need a putty knife to push the rubber into position on the stainless. Stainless steel screws were used in the divider to avoid rust. Make sure they are not too long and do not distort the stainless or push it off the seal. The assembly was dry fitted between the windshield pieces, and about 3/4" had to be trimmed from both ends of the triangular seal. The installers insisted on using urethane around the divider seals, and at this point I went long with them. The divider seal was coated with a bead of the urethane and installed between the glasses from the outside. Looking from the inside, we made sure the urethane flowed into all the gaps between glass , gasket, and body. The flat rubber seal strip, inside trim piece and screws are then attached from inside the car. The reproduction triangular seal has a small metal strip inside it which is threaded for the screws. The strip is not very strong and can easily be bent by hand. For this reason, we chose to only tighten the screws with three fingers on the screwdriver, to avoid distorting the seal. This is not an area you want a leak. Best of luck. This is a tough job, don't try it by yourself. Let me know what questions you have and I will try to answer them. Edited September 24, 2017 by TXCR13 Correction (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXCR13 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) Here are a few more pics that may be helpful: Interior view of the divider bar installed, with stainless screws, and a bit of extra length on both ends of the flat rubber seal. Both glass pieces in, waiting on divider installation. Make sure the split between he glasses is even top to bottom, and test fit the divider seal before applying sealer and installing. Divider bar in, looking for my center joint pieces to complete the installation. Tucking the pyramid shaped rubber seal into the metal divider. Mine was a very tight fit and the blue plastic tool helped a lot. Also added a pic of the reveal molding seated in the corner of the seal. It sits down tight when correctly in the grooves. A shot of metal ended tools similar to those we used to help rope the gasket in place, and blue plastic ones which were helpful with the divider seal, and cleanup of the sealant. Note that neither hook type tool should have a sharp point on it, to avoid tearing the gasket. Also very well worth adding that the installers wore rubber gloves and avoided getting all the sealer on their hands. Edited September 24, 2017 by TXCR13 Add detail. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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