40mopar

Solid Core Wire for Autos?

18 posts in this topic

Any pros and cons in using solid core wire for general auto wiring?

 

Thanks

 

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Solid rather than strands?  You need stranded wire for the constant vibrations in a car.  Solid will crack over time in certain spans.

 

Even in the housing Electrical Code Book, it mentions vibration.

 

.

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Solid core wire is for housing etc. simply not flexible enough for auto wiring, and yes it will work harden and break over time with vibration.

Quote

 

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An interesting fact that I discovered a few years ago was that properly crimped on connectors are superior to soldered connections when there is flexing or vibration.  I was told that by an aircraft engineer who says they are not allowed to colder connections and must use crimped on ones. 

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Thanks for this information. I learned something valuable today. With the explanations it makes perfect sense.

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Tinindian, your aircraft engineer was 100% correct. When I worked on aircraft when I was in the Navy electrical connections were NEVER soldered. On another site dedicated to street rods, I tried to explain an answer to a crimped vs soldered wire question and couldn't believe how many people refused to believe that a properly crimped connection was superior to soldering. One guy even stated that he uses plumbing acid flux on his connections with no problems. That joint is doomed to failure. There are so many incorrect ways to place a terminal end on a wire. Size, incorrect terminal end, wrong crimping tool, solder, shrink tubing etc. You don't take chances with aircraft. And yes, stranded wire for vehicles, solid wire for houses.

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When I was doing electronic work for some NASA projects wires ends were striped by heat not with strippers, ends were crimped then soldered and inspected under a X10 before they were heat shrink-ed.

The aftermarket battery cable ends with the two bolts three different metals in a acidic environment start to fail the first day.

Solid wire has less resistance so it is better for the long runs in buildings and were the wire is stationary.  

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Posted (edited)

You'd be amazed at the amount of research and physics that has been developed in the solderless connector field.  The propaganda that we were given is it was developed by AMP which at the time stood for Aircraft Marine Products. (started in 1941)  If you ever are having trouble sleeping, sit through a training class of contact physics.  Some people were quite passionate about the subject.

Edited by emjay
additional info (see edit history)

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This is interesting.

I have been in arguments about my solderless terminal before.

My argument is that I rarely have any problems with them, when I do its my own fault. Their arguments are that they are prone to failure.

Go figure.

 

I wired up my first street rod with salvaged wiring from used remote controls from old boats using solderless crimped terminals.

That was in the 70s. The car still starts and runs every time and all of the gauges and lights work even to this day 40 some years later.

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Posted (edited)

The key word is "Properly" crimped.

 

We were doing EC-130J test flights out on a pacific island back in 2005 and one of the modified aircraft systems would not operating properly up at cruising altitude (28,000 ft).  I wrote the problem up and maintenance could not find anything wrong back on the ground.  Next flight the same thing happened, and the next.  They finally figured out some crimps for wire connectors outside the aft pressure bulkhead in the tail had not been crimped properly and moisture would freeze in the connectors at altitude which caused the issue.   They replaced the connectors and we never had the problem afterwards.

Edited by Vila (see edit history)

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Jack, as I stated in my original post, a properly sized terminal end and the use of the proper crimping tool will last forever. All the F-4s that I worked on during my Navy years, used crimped wire ends and we never had a failure. If you want a test, solder a terminal and crimp one of equal size. Place both ends in a vice and vigorously wiggle the wires back and forth. The soldered end will break the crimped one won't.

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Vila, is the EC-130 the plane with the "tail pods"? That's one big bird, wouldn't want to see that fall from the sky!

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Posted (edited)

46 Woodie

 

There are three versions of the EC-130.  

 

The EC-130H Compass call has what looks like a cloths rack hanging off the bottom of the tail.  

 

The EC-130 Super J looks like a normal C-130 for the most part.  

 

The EC-130J Commando Solo has the 4 antenna pods (two each side) on the vertical stabilizer that look torpedoes, and it also has very large antenna pods mounted on the outer hard points of the wings approximately 5 or so feet from the wing tips.  This is the version we were flight testing.

 

Our unit flies both the Super J and Commando Solo out of Harrisburg, PA.

 

Sorry for interrupting the general topic of this thread.

 

Edited by Vila (see edit history)

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18 hours ago, Vila said:

The key word is "Properly" crimped.

 

We were doing EC-130J test flights out on a pacific island back in 2005 and one of the modified aircraft systems would not operating properly up at cruising altitude (28,000 ft).  I wrote the problem up and maintenance could not find anything wrong back on the ground.  Next flight the same thing happened, and the next.  They finally figured out some crimps for wire connectors outside the aft pressure bulkhead in the tail had not been crimped properly and moisture would freeze in the connectors at altitude which caused the issue.   They replaced the connectors and we never had the problem afterwards.

 

I don't drive the thing at 28,000 feet, and rarely in freezing weather.

I agree, properly anything is better than improperly.

I am a bit anal about doing things the best that can be done.

Interesting thread.

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Solid wire has the same resistance as strand wire if the material and net cross sectional area are the same. That is a physics principle. No need to look at resistance charts. All the resistance charts show you is that for wire of THE SAME GAUGE the solid and stranded DO NOT have the same cross sectional area. And the weight per unit length is NOT the same. For example for 14 gauge the solid has a weight per unit length of 10.9 while the stranded "7/22" has a weight per unit length of 14.0. So the stranded obviously has less resistance than the solid but is also weighs more and contains significantly more metal per the length.

 

No solid wire does not have less resistance. No stranded wire does not have less resistance either. They are equal if of equal cross section and material.

 

The formula fro resistance is this:

 

resis3.gif

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I bought a Jaguar XJS V12 and the owner told me I had to pinch the two wires together to start it. A short piece of #12 solid Romex stuck out from under the shifter plate and you just squeezed them together. He recommended wearing a glove because it really did get hot.

You can't do stuff like that with floppy old stranded wire.

 

My personal resistivity to the workmanship decreased the selling price but reduced the time it took to fix it.

Bernie

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Posted (edited)

Good/properly crimped is good and will have longevity.  BUT soldering a crimped connector will cure a myriad of crimping sins.

 

The question to everyone is how many of us have the correct crimping pliars to ensure a proper crimp? 

 

The old Packard Electric terminal crimping set has at least four and that was just for the Packard terminals. 

 

I would guess that I have maybe eight different crimping pliars depending on the terminal and wire being crimped.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)
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