fh4ever Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 regarding the '39 commander resurrection.... I drained the molasses out of the rear axle and the tranny. Now its time to put fresh lube back in... any recommendations for the rear axle and the tranny with overdrive? 85w-90 ok for both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 You need hypoid fluid for the differential, but be sure to use GL-4 (not GL-5 due to the presumed yellow metal in it). For the transmission--especially if you have overdrive--use GL-1 (straight mineral oil gear lube), available from NAPA if not on their shelf. As to weights, I'd use 85/90 at first (perhaps 500 miles, to also serve as a flush), then drain and refill with SAE 140, unless you do winter driving in a below-freezing climate, in which case SAE 90 is more appropriate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Grimy said: You need hypoid fluid for the differential, but be sure to use GL-4 (not GL-5 due to the presumed yellow metal in it). For the transmission--especially if you have overdrive--use GL-1 (straight mineral oil gear lube), available from NAPA if not on their shelf. Why do you recommend GL-1 for the transmission with O/D? The O/D is just planetary gears and a set of ramps and rollers. Totally mechanical. Nothing to slip, but there is a bronze bush in there from memory. The transmission has bronze baulking ring synchro on 2 and 3. My reading is you can use GL-5 oil (rather than GL-4) AS LONG AS the Copper Strip Corrosion Test (ASTM D130) result for that oil is "a", meaning it doesn't attack copper alloys. You will have to look at the SDS for that information. If not there, look at another oil until you find one that gives the correct result. Where would the yellow metal be in the differential? Edited January 31, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvonada Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 There are 1000 threads about this floating around. Here is a current one: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?99110-O-D-Transmission-Oil The transmission (especially O/D) is no place to get creative. I have run GL-4 (before I knew better), non-detergent 30W motor oil, and GL-1 90w. GL-1 is by far the best. I used to think my syncros were fried but with the correct lube my 76-year-old tranny shifts perfectly. Admittedly modern formulations are more effective in some ways but your transmission was designed for GL-1. I run GL-5 in my diff, but GL-4 should be fine. Your car, your choice. NAPA part number for 1-gal GL-1 is 65-201. Do yourself a favor and get a pump for it like the one below. Makes it a LOT easier... By the way this is GL-4 I run in my 67 Jeepster. Actually harder to find now than GL-1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Spinney, like nvonada, I have in the past run GL-4 in transmissions and overdrives, My 1948 Willys-Overland 4-63 owners manual supplied with my Jeepster, and with its engine and serial numbers entered in fountain pen, says the following for each of trans & OD (BW units just like Stude): "CAUTION: Do not use "HYPOID" or "EP" in the transmission and overdrive assembly." It is my understanding that GL-5 gear lubes can attack yellow metal in the differentials. From my experience, that's certainly the case with GL-6 (synthetic). As described at greater length in another thread, I spoke with a Sta-Lube Ph.D. chemist prior to putting synthetic in my 1936 diff before a cross-country run. The chemist said no problem. In Wyoming, while stopping to top off a leaky rear shock, the diff was VERY hot. I found a parts store and bought GL-4 and a drain pan, and saw the dreaded Golden Sparkles (yellow metal) come out with the oil. That diff had given no problems before. Apparently I caught it in time, because I've had no further problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just reading this , I am now a little bit concerned. I am using synthetic lubricants everywhere. Would there be any downside in my mid '20s Cadillacs ? I am currently trying to get takeoff clearance from cardiologists in order to drive the '27 back North. It is using Lucas 250w synthetic gear oil in trans and diff. I am pretty confident , no synchro , simple rugged spiral bevel diff. I have far too much to worry about , and hope to escape again , driving happily along without the least doubt. You guys know VASTLY more about cars than I do. I am 99.99% sure I'm O.K. , but please help with this little question mark now residing in what is left of my mind. Hmmmmmm.......... , I have been thinking while tapping this out , became 100% sure all is well with with my applications. About to delete , I figured leave it up in case it is to the benefit of anyone. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 thanks for all the replies, I knew this would stir things up a just a little. Different opinions still make it a bit confusing which way to go. But, It sounds like GL1 no EP straight mineral oil gear lube for the tranny is ok. Would that be 90w or 140? I am thinking 90w for easier shifting, but what drained out seemed more like 250w if there is such a thing. For the diff, sounds like GL1 or GL4 is ok? And it can be EP either 90w or 140w. correct? I do like the idea of going 90w for the first 500 miles just to flush the old stuff out. good idea!. BTW ...I am in southeast so no extreme cold weather here. are most in agreement? thanks all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, fh4ever said: For the diff, sounds like GL1 or GL4 is ok? And it can be EP either 90w or 140w. correct? The diff is hypoid, so you NEED Extreme Pressure (EP) gear oil. GL-1 is straight mineral oil without EP additives, so it is NOT appropriate for your diff. GL-4 is the Right Stuff, GL-5 is for limited slip and is reportedly not friendly to yellow metal. GL-6 is synthetic and I described my experience with ONE brand, which I'll never install in a vintage car but will use in modern. Weight: I'll stand by my previous recommendation of 90, changed later to 140, but the change may not be necessary. See how much noise is in your tranny. I put a fresh charge of 90 into my Jeepster tranny, but it's a bit noisy so I'll replace with GL-1 SAE 140 before the summer driving season. Carl's 1920s diffs are NOT hypoid, so far as I know, so do not need anything beyond straight mineral oil (GL-1). Carl, my good friend, suggest you run your car for an hour or so, then see how hot the tranny and diff housings are--easier with an infrared non-contact thermometer. Or drain a small amount from each unit and look for the Golden Sparkles, which would indicate a need to change back to GL-1 (600-W or SAE 250). Carl, let me know if your return will take you to or near the SF Bay Area--I'd really like to meet you in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Grimy has provided the correct advice for fh4ever, so ditto that. With regard to the synthetic....hmmmm. They typically do not need the additive packages that the straight mineral oils have so I'm not sure about the yellow metal corrosion issue. Carl, I would recommend going to the Lucas oil website or contacting them and ask if their synthetics are compatible with yellow metals. The synthetic oils really are vastly superior to mineral oils for lubrication so I would have no concerns with that. The only other downside to synthetics is that they are much more aggressive to seals at higher operating temperatures so you need compatible seal materials. It will often swell some seal materials. So if you replaced the old felt seals with lip seals it is possible for some degradation in sealing properties. Most synthetic oil manufacturers claim full compatibility but my auto industry engineering experience and testing says otherwise. FYI - I use the 600W GL-1 in my 1923 for both trans and axle. Scott Edited February 1, 2017 by Stude Light (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 thanks folks, I sure appreciate your help ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Awakening for the old man's hydraulic imperative, unable now to resume natural sleep. Quickly , before the mandated geriatric soporific kicks in : Protocol dictates priority be given to fh4ever's initial question. Taking a clue from "molasses" , let's think out of the box for a moment. A long time ago I bought a '73 Cad (I had to have it , it had gorgeous saddle brown leather seats , 60/40 front) , with a significant pinion seal leak. I drained what was left of the oil out of the diff (it might well have sheared down to lower than 90 viscosity) , and refilled with 85-90W/140. I then put massive mileage on it until an Eastbound vector resulted in a T-bone by a Southbound assailant , she blinded by the late afternoon sunlight. Insurance paid me off , and gave me the car. I in turn gave it to a sadistic friend of mine : Hippie Jack. Now ol' Hip' focused his torments upon the still great running wreck. Neither my long distance freeway flying , nor Hip's disrespectful provocations , ever coaxed any of that higher viscosity oil through the seal !!!! Lesson ? Might not be a bad idea to go directly to the 140. In your climate , you could actually use 250 in the diff , it won't hurt a thing , and the miniscule power needed to mesh through the heavier oil might cost you only about 0.0031415926535989 mpg. Strange , I just noticed something weird. My analysis has produced a sequence of numbers which resemble what I recall Pi to be. I better check that in the morning. Bizarre coincidence ? Whew ! Might be the pill kicking in. I hope so. And before I nod off , I would like to thank you George. Yes , I look forward to meeting you. I hope to visit with friends and family in the area. Speaking of which , a friend of mine found something maybe 3+ years ago that just might belong to you or a friend of yours. A while ago I was looking at a Model T truck Stuart was unloading across Highway 9 from his house , between Ben Lomond and Boulder Creek. I noticed something prominently displayed atop one of the posts supporting the guard rail. Something shiny and cool looking. I walked over and picked it up. A perhaps late '20s Pierce Arrow hubcap in vgc ! Stuart said he found it by the side of the road about 3 years ago , and figured someone might come looking for it. And there it still sat ! Oh yes , George. Meeting you would be a real high point in my old car life. Something like getting a ride when I was a 15 or 16 year old kid in Gil Duffy's Murphy touring bodied SJ Duesenberg. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 "Hydraulic imperative" indeed! Carl, you certainly have a fine way with words, even in the wee small hours! The Pierce hubcap on the side of the road isn't mine, nor anyone's who has reported such a loss. Now if it were a hubcap from a Loco Sportif, I could point you to a person who lost one in that time frame. It was remarkably good of your friend Stuart to leave it in situ for someone looking for it; by now, however, methinks it would be fine for it to become a display piece with a story in his home or shop. (Most of my own display pieces have such stories.) As to the Stude diff, the most important thing is to use EP/hypoid lube; the weight of the lube is of secondary importance. Since the old, drained lube was so heavy, I recommended a lighter oil initially to flush some of remaining heavy oil out later on. In my climate (never below freezing but sometimes close), I do use SAE 140 in my hypoid differentials--and 600-W in non-hypoid. Carl, when you have your schedule roughed out, please shoot me a PM so I can block some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh4ever Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Carl, are you a writer? you sure have a unique talent assembling words into sentences!! I enjoyed it so much, had to read it several times !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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