Buick Rescue - 1997 Buick LeSabre

[TxBuicks]

This one started with an email from one of our local North Texas Chapter members to a few other members.  Basically, he knows someone selling a 1997 LeSabre, and it seems to be in very good condition.  I received that initial email and filed it away in y mind.  3 weeks later I hear about a college student going to Texas A&M.  Evan's little truck was running so bad that he was afraid to drive it back home to north Texas, about 250 miles.  He has had it for a while and tried to repair it the best he can but now it was over heating to the point he couldn't drive it anymore.  Besides, the A/C went out several years ago and he couldn't afford to fix it.  Living in Texas with no A/C is brutal.  I first called Evan's father to see if he would even be interested in a Buick LeSabre.  His father said he would be interested in anything dependable with A/C.  I then called the phone number in the email and talked to the original owner, Tom.   Tom bought it new and has taken very good care of it,  It has been garaged all of its life, with annual checkups from the same local mechanic.  He lived only 4 miles from work, so the car only had 97,000 miles on it,  I told him about this college kid that needed a car but didn't have much money to spend.  He was sympathetic and came down several hundred dollars immediately.  I thought this could be a good deal for everyone.  So I arranged to go with the dad to see and drive the car, and he wasn't disappointed.  He took some pictures and sent them to Evan.  Of course, his son was interested.  Look at the pictures and you can see why.  A week later, the purchase was made and another old Buick found a good home.  Evan plans to keep it through college then see what happens then.  But at least he has a dependable car to drive until then. And he can come home when ever he wants and drive in comfort.

 

I've lost count of how many of these 1990's Buicks that I have helped pass on to others. Most of them are still being used daily.  It feels good every time,

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by TxBuicks (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Thanks for posting that, Roy!  Especially that last picture!

 

Several years ago, a local younger guy that was doing the rodeo circuit had to change from a pickup truck to something more economical as he was doing a national circuit.  He and a buddy usually drove together to save on costs.  The car that was pictured in the local newspaper was a '90s LeSabre 4-door.  He talked about the comfort AND the fact the trunk could accommodate all of their saddles and related items.  PLUS the savings on gas from his HD2500 pickup.  And, of course, the Buick was "value priced".

 

Thing is that many younger people overlook these Buicks as "an old folks' car".  BUT both demographics can appreciate them for the same reasons!  Less expensive maintenance costs (5 qt oil changes, not 7 qts), less expensive tires (16" not 18"), the economy and durability of the Buick V-6 engine, plus space to stretch out in the interior and the cavernous luggage compartment (useable for moving from one residence to another OR on trips to new jobs/schools "cross country").  A much better choice than many others out there!

 

Thanks again for posting this!

 

NTX5467

[Fr. Buick]

Nice job!  I had a '94 and loved the car.  At 80 on the insterstate, loaded with three adults and luggage with the air on, it would get 30 mpg.

[JohnD1956]

An honest 30 MPG too.  Todays cars promise that but my smaller Regal ( with two less cylinders) will only get 27 on the open road.  Sheesh!  Bring back the 3800.  It may have hit it's development limit but it was a great engine!

[TxBuicks]

NTX5467, it all started with that email you forwarded to a select group of North Texas BCA Members, so it would not have happened without you. 

 

I know younger kids are not interested in these Buicks.  That's why I called his father first.  I didn't want to contact the seller if Evan wasn't interested in an old Buick.  It sounded like Evan bought his truck used and has had problems with it since day one.  At this point, he would take anything.  But he seemed very excited to get the LeSabre.  He brought his girlfriend, too.  She seemed more excited than Evan, probably because she won't be needed to haul him around anymore.  And she lives in Houston, so Evan can drive to see her more frequently now.

[Centurion]

These cars are excellent values!  Although they may require the lower intake manifold gasket replacement sometime in the 70,000 - to - 80,000-mile range, this is usually a one-time repair with the improved aftermarket gasket.  

 

For the initial purchase price, these cars are tough to beat!  My 21-year old twin daughters drive a '95 LeSabre and a '99 Regal.  My wife drives a 2005 LeSabre and I drive a '96 Riviera.  All four cars are powered by the great Buick 3800 V6.  I love these cars.

[RivNut]

Doesn't that 3800 have the same basic underpinnings as the 231 cubic inch (3.8 liter [3800 cc's] turbo) engine that Buick made? Or do they just have the same displacement?

[Centurion]

32 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Doesn't that 3800 have the same basic underpinnings as the 231 cubic inch (3.8 liter [3800 cc's] turbo) engine that Buick made? Or do they just have the same displacement?

 

Absolutely!  The engine's lineage dates all the way back to the first Buick V6 in 1962.  And I credit this engine with preserving General Motors' passenger car business through the 1990's and into the 21st Century.  In view of some of the troubled engines that GM was producing during the 1980's and 1990's, the 3800 was the one shining star.  And it was always built at Buick City in Flint.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Centurion (see edit history)

[Thriller]

As some of you may remember, Teresa wants a Buick the same vintage as she is...I was puttering around online recently and showed her a nice looking low mileage 1996 Century wagon. She's intrigued. The challenge right now is that winter has hit with a vengeance and the car is two hours away, to say nothing of full garage / shop space. 

 

[Thriller]

All that was to say some young folks are interested in Buick automobiles. 

 

[Barney Eaton]

My granddaughter returned to Texas in Sept from Australia.....she needed something to drive until she got settled.  The choices were a 2002 GMC p/u or I have a spare 2007 Lucerne.  While she was not excited about either she chose the Lucerne.

During the 7 weeks she use the car, she made several trips to Dallas to meet with college friends and they started raving about the Lucerne which broke the ice and she came to really like the Lucerne.   She got a job and they furnished her a vehicle, a RAV4 but she says there is no comparison with the Lucerne.   While the company she is with has headquarters in Austin, her territory is much of the Dallas area so now she is living in North Dallas and close to her college friends.

PS the Lucerne is available.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Kind of makes you wonder if the advertising market has some influence on what some buyers think they want.  They're all hyped up to be trendy until they've driven the "car of their dreams" and then get to compare it to something like the above mentioned LeSabres and Lucernes and get to know what true driving comfort is.  

[60FlatTop]

Experience is a great teacher. I have seen some older guys get all hyped up about the car of their dreams. Some even think about using a 50 year old car for a daily driver. I think they get to know what the true driving experience, not just comfort, is.

Post 1970's cars can go a lot of miles, but age related issues get them.

Bernie

[EmTee]

18 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

"...but age related issues get them."

 

Ah, yes -- same can be said for the owners, which tends to remove some of the rose colored windshield tinting...

[NTX5467]

The 3800's main "claim to fame" is the balance shaft it came to have, which also was when the "3800" nomenclature appeared.  Prior to that, several redesign/upgrades in the mix, other than just the "even-fire" item.  The original engine was either 196 or 225 cid, I believe.  The 231 came a few years later?  The turbo 231s were just one step in the progression to the latest 3800s.  MANY differences since then!

 

There was one evolutionary redesign where about the only things which carried over from one year to the next was the displacement.  Much rotating mass was removed from the guts, for better performance and fuel economy.  Another year, fuel injectors were re-targeted for better emissions and fuel economy.  Almost had to have a scorecard to keep up, sometimes!

 

In any event, if there were any issues with that engine, they were FEW and EASY TO FIX.  The clanging lower pulley was one. 

 

EACH of the later "high feature" V-6 engines has had their problems.  The wheels don't know what makes them turn, but marketing certainly does!

 

We all know that each design has their "best years", plus if the basic tooling needs replacing, why not do some upgrades and "something different" at the same time?  OHC motors can be easier to meet emissions (due to more accurate valve timing) and 4 valves/cylinder help with fuel/air mixture activity (which larger valves can't match), plus capabilities for "direct injection", ala diesel, but for gasoline. 

 

The SC3800s came at a time when turbo motors couldn't easily pass cold-start emissions.  The turbo acted like a heat sink and the cat converter would not fire off soon enough . . . without a more expensive heated oxygen sensor.  Supercharged motors didn't have that issue.  Nor the need for "spooling up" for max power on demand!  But the had some durability issues with the front bearing on the supercharger, PLUS the need for the special Supercharger Oil and getting it changed every so often!

 

Most of the normal 3800s were geared with a 3.06 final drive ratio.  The '90s and later LeSabres had a 2.84 ratio.  It took about 82mph for them to break 2000rpm at cruise!  One reason for the great highway mileage.  One thing I liked was that a part-throttle downshift would string-out the upshift similar to my '70 Skylark 350 with a 2.73 rear axle ratio.  "Passing gear forever"!

 

Lucernes were nice cars, but didn't have the following the prior Park Avenues tended to.  They are GREAT values, too.  The typical Lucerne original-buyer's demographics usually took good care of them, so many are in great condition.

 

Compared to many current GM engines and their NINE quart oil changes, an oil change on a Buick 3800 would seem like "pocket change"! 

 

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467

[Thriller]

The original 1962 odd fire V6 was 196 cid. 

 

[Brad Conley]

The "modern" V6, after Buick bought back the tooling from AMC in 1974, was alway 231 cid (3.8 liter) with the exception of the 3.0 (196 cid) V6 available for a few years in the 80's.  The 3.8 (231 cid)  used the same piston's as the then available as the 350 cid Buick V8, just two less cylinders.  Even fire came around mid-year 1977.

[NTX5467]

When I started looking about an oil pump housing for my '68 350 LeSabre, it was the same current part number as for the then-current V-6.  THAT was interesting!l  Didn't need one, just looking for availability.

 

NTX5467

[EmTee]

I have owned a '90 Bonneville and a '92 Le Sabre with the 3800.  In a word: Bullitproof.  The only issues were a failed crank sensor on the Pontiac (a common GM issue at the time)  and I replaced the plastic heater hose outlet nipple on the Buick after the one on my father's '94 Bonneville popped and proceeded to empty the cooling system all over the highway.  Both of my cars succumbed to multiple other issues while the engines continued to run flawlessly...

 

P.S. I later inherited my mother-in-law's 2001 Century with the 3.4 (60-degree) V6 -- JUNK!

Edited December 25, 2016 by EmTee
P.S. (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

13 hours ago, Brad Conley said:

The "modern" V6, after Buick bought back the tooling from AMC in 1974, was alway 231 cid (3.8 liter) with the exception of the 3.0 (196 cid) V6 available for a few years in the 80's.  The 3.8 (231 cid)  used the same piston's as the then available as the 350 cid Buick V8, just two less cylinders.  Even fire came around mid-year 1977.

Was there ever a 4.3 version?  I thought there was such around 78-80 but have not researched it. 

[Larry Schramm]

There was a 4.1 from around '80 to '85. 

 

Corrected to 4.1. from 4.3

Edited December 25, 2016 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Brad Conley]

You are thinking of the 4.1...forgot about that one when I first posted.  The 4.3 was a chevy engine with zero in common with the Buick V6 family.

[JohnD1956]

Right. The 4.1.  If I remember right it was particularly stout?

[Brad Conley]

Yes, a very nice engine.  They used it mainly in the larger series Buick's as it developed more torque.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

LC4[edit]

In response to rising gas prices, a larger 252 cu in (4.1 L) version of the 3.8 L LD5 V6 was produced from 1980 through 1984 and marketed as an alternative to a V8. The bore was enlarged to 3.965 in (100.71 mm), yielding an output of 125 horsepower (93 kW) and 205 lb·ft (278 N·m). This engine was used in many large rear-wheel drive Buicks, and in some models from each of GM's other divisions, including Cadillac which offered the "big" Buick V6 in several models from 1980 to 1982 as a credit option to the troublesome V8-6-4 engine used in 1981 and early versions of the aluminum-block Cadillac HT-4100 V8 introduced in 1982. It was also the standard powerplant in the front-drive Riviera and Olds Toronado from 1981 to 1984. Additionally, the 4.1 block was used unsuccessfully at Indianapolis for racing. Its only weakness was the intake valve seals. This was the first naturally aspirated GM V-6 to feature a 4-barrel carburetor.

Year	Horsepower	Torque	Fuel System	Compression Ratio	VIN Code
1980–1984	125 hp (93 kW) at 4,000 rpm	205 lb·ft (278 N·m) at 2,000 rpm	4-BBL	8.0:1	4

Applications

1980–84 Buick Electra, 1980–84 Buick LeSabre, 1982–84 Buick Regal, 1981–84 Buick Riviera, 1980–82 Cadillac DeVille, 1981–82 Cadillac Eldorado,

1980–82 Cadillac Fleetwood, 1981–82 Cadillac Seville, 1981–83 Oldsmobile 98, 1981–84 Oldsmobile Toronado, 1982 Pontiac Grand Prix, 1982 Pontiac Bonneville

[Larry Schramm]

They actually used the engine in the police car package.

[NTX5467]

Interesting thing was that the fwd Impala police package performed "right with" the Ford 4.6L V-8 in those performance tests!  But did it on less fuel, which was an important consideration for some.  BOTH engines were rated at approx. 200 horsepower, but the Ford was obviously heavier.

 

The front sheet metal on the fwd Buick Century was longer to accommodate the wider width of that engine, being a 90 degree V-6 as the other GM V-6s were narrower 60 degree V-6s.  The 4.1L V-6 gave the "higher carline" Buick a more powerful and larger engine than the lower carline brands, which was still somewhat important for brand differentiation.  Which also played well with that engine being available in Cadillacs, I suspect

 

NTX5467.

[Brad Conley]

To get back (somewhat) on topic, one other consideration is the fact that these cars are VERY inexpensive to insure, even with full coverage.  I am an insurance agent with over 36 years of experience and one thing I tell my clients when they are looking at a first car (or even second, third, etc) for their child is to get something the child's grandmother would enjoy driving.  A LeSabre, Century, Park Avenue or even a Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis or Town Car make excellent, inexpensive choices for young drivers.  They can be obtained cheaply and as such, some just put liability coverage on them as replacing the car with one of like kind is so inexpensive and it keeps the costs down for the customer.

 

My own son purchased a 1999 Town Car with 46,000 miles on it about 4 years ago.  The total cost was UNDER $5000 and he now has about 110,000 miles and "Beulah's" old Town Car (literally, previous owner's first name was Beulah, I kid you not) is going strong.  These types of cars do not have the "flash" of a Mustang or Camaro or Honda (one of the MOST expensive brands to insure out there, believe it or not) but will give YEARS of trouble free service and you know that the previous owner did service and maintain them as they were typically owned by older folks, one's that have the economic means to maintain the vehicle.  They make excellent value's in todays economic times.  The cost of ownership is unbelievably low of these autos.  Much more so than any "flashy" car out there, I guarantee. 

[TxBuicks]

Well said, Brad.  My experiences with rescuing these 1990's Buicks is that people won't even consider them until they are desperate.  I have to lead the people to the cars.  When I first mention that I have a good candidate for them to look at, but it is a Buick, they usually aren't that interested.  It is only after they actually see it that they become interested, with me constantly telling them how good a deal it is.  I have a 16 year old son, and he will be looking for a car soon.  Even after seeing me turn over these cars to happy new owners, he isn't interested in them.  I tell him, it beats walking.

[Brad Conley]

You are exactly correct, Roy.  NOBODY wants these excellent values in automobiles.  My 89 year old aunt moved last March from Ashland, KY to here with me and is now in assisted living locally.  She owns a 2000 LeSabre Custom and, when we drove it up last March, had just over 24,000 miles.  Still had the factory delivered tires mounted (which I promptly changed).  It's only issue was that it sat out all these years and had some minor issues with the headlights being cloudy and the typical GM headliner drooping.  I used one of those kits you find at the auto stores and polished the headlights out...don't look too bad if I do say so.  Headliner is next.  Gave it a quick detail with some much needed wax and the old girl cleaned up pretty well (the car, not Aunt Polly ).  It's your typical "Grandma Gold", or as Alan Oldfield calls those colors, "Preservation Gold".  Talk about unloved....

 

So I tried to sell the car as Aunt Polly will be needing funds for the extended care facility.  I couldn't give it away at $2000, so....I kept it (I need another car like I need another hole in my head).  My daughter lives in Springfield, IL and it's a little over 6 hours from door to door.  I'm using the LeSabre to make the trips.  32 mpg, cruises at 80 mph without effort, cops pay ZERO attention to it, comfortable as all get out, plenty of room to even take the fur babies with us (two shelties) and it keeps the miles off my daily drivers.  Now THATS value!  How come no one else see's this?  Are we just that smart, or are we the dumb ones?

[TxBuicks]

Well, I wouldn't claim to be that smart.  I think logical would be fair to say.  When it comes down to functional and dependable transportation, it would be difficult to find another series or era of Buicks these days that are better.  I don't mind driving an unpopular car as long as it suits my needs.  I have other Buicks I can drive for "fun". 

 

My 1991 Roadmaster Estate Wagon was my daily driver for many years.  I took my family cross-country in that car a lot, attending many BCA Nationals in it.  Now, no one in my family will be caught near it.  And my son said he'd never drive it, so I'd better find something else. Go figure.

[RivNut]

I recently acquired a '94 Roadmaster Estate wagon - the one with the LT1 package. My younger step-son and his girl friend stopped by a week or so after I got it. They love it. (They're both 30'ish.) They now have a Subaru Outback wagon and are planning a trip next summer which would include a bunch of camping.  After riding in the Estate wagon, they promptly decided that a similar wagon for them would be perfect for comfort and hauling the gear they're planning to take with them.  Once I put all of the seats down, they decided that they could even "camp out" in the wagon with the stars over their heads - the moon roof that's over the middle seat. So, not every younger person shuns a good value in transportation.  Those that think logically rather than "what will my peers think" may have something going for them as well.

 

Ed

[old-tank]

51 minutes ago, RivNut said:

could even "camp out" in the wagon with the stars over their heads

That's what my friend said about his (un-cool) 1950 Nash with reclining seats .  My car (almost as frumpy) was a 1951 Plymouth 4dr, but sure beat the bicycle that I retired.

[NTX5467]

IF "the kids" can't bring themselves to see the possibilities of those Buicks, that's THEIR problem!  The instrument panel has enough real estate to install the latest and trendiest "flashing light display" radio at Best Buy.  Plenty of room under the back window for a subwoofer big enough to "crack glass", too!  Then all that would be needed is a set of air struts!  Plenty of room in the luggage compartment for the compressor to run them, too!

 

Look at the cars of the 1950s and many has pretty plain body lines, with a few styling gee-gaws and moldings defining the model and such, and provided "paint divider" lines for the two-tone paint.  A little imagination could spiff-up those Buicks, too!  Certainly "out of character" for what's expected, but unique personalized vehicles could result.  Do the "trim" in shiny chrome-look "wrap" material, for example.

 

Perhaps young 'uns are too used to looking at Tall Trucks?

 

A while back, I rented some Chrysler Sebring JXi convertibles (individually).  Great cars!  The Mitsu V-6 needed more guts to easily cruise over 64mph with the top down, unlike prior LeBaron Turbo convertibles, but those were minor things (fixed by the Chry 2.7L V-6).  Then, one weekend afternoon, it noticed that the ONLY people driving the LeBaron or Sebring convertibles were "grand mothers", some  with foam rollers in their hair.  EVERY one of them!  I then started looking at who was driving those cars.  I finally found a 40-something couple in one, with the man driving.  It had some tri-spoke custom wheels AND they had the top down.  Even so, NOT the typical vibe of a young male who drives a pickup truck for the "macho" look and peer acceptance (after all, this IS Texas!).  So all of those 1959-era ads of younger people being at the beach in a convertible, having fun, just didn't transfer to these later convertibles!  Unless it might be a Mustang!

 

During "the drought years" of USA sporty cars, I was at a new car show as the grandson crawled into a Mitsu Spyder as if that's what he wanted in the future, as his grand father watched.  I just shook my head.  Where were the USA brands??  "Mired" somewhere else!

 

In some respects, COLOR makes a huge difference in how a vehicle brand is perceived.  This can also relate to the general mood of the nation, too!  After the nicer and brighter metallics of the middle 1970s, by '79 things had gone drab again.  Several years later, more bright colors, but fewer of them.  Many pastels and such on the higher level cars, plus the lessening of adornment trim, spelled "dull" in any language (no matter high shiny the wax made the paint).  They succeeded in going for the Euro look in that respect, but the Euro brands had enough cache to not get hurt by it.  Go on almost any new car lot today and its "white, black, and gray", typically.  No matter what brand of vehicle it is.  Small cars have bright colors, as do many pickups, but cars and SUVs are usually in the wbg colors.  The cars they do have in red, crimson, of yellow really stand out!

 

Unfortunately, many of the USA brands have lost several generations of young potential buyers, over the past 30 years.  Import brands have moved to fill the void as those markets didn't disappear (as GM orchestrated the demise of the Camaro, for example, or the T-bird/Cougar came to the end of their tooling's life).  The Camaro enthusiasts raised cane and GM had to listen, just as Ford had to listen when Mustang enthusiasts learned their "Mustang" would be built on a Mazda platform in Mexico (the Ford Probe became THAT car), as Ford had to re-think their plans.  GM's beloved "brand management" figured into the demise of some product sales, too, by observation.

 

When younger people purchased an early-70s big car, they bragged about how much fuel economy it didn't get.  Now the same demographic might get an import brand and brag about how much parts for it cost.  When "the smart money" would look for one of the 1980s+ LeSabres/Park Avenues and put that "un-spent money" into other life purchases/investments instead!  College tuition, for example!  Ah . . . that's "too rational"!

 

NTX5467

Edited December 30, 2016 by NTX5467 (see edit history)