JoelsBuicks

The beginning of my shop

124 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Bill, thanks so much for your input.  I will no doubt further consult you and others in the lighting endeavor.  

 

I have two internal rooms in this shop that will be climate controlled.  I'll get some better pics and tell you more about them very soon.  One is a work area; also big enough for a car with tools, work bench etc.  

 

Thanks again for your input, I need to talk more about the big open space and how I want to use it.

 

Joel

Edited by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

There are two internal rooms and each is about 18' x 25'.  They are adjacent and will have a walk door between them.  Both will be well-insulated and Each will have its own Fujitsu mini-split heat pump as I have had great luck with one of these in a similar application.

 

In the pics, you'll see that the ceiling in each room is half-vaulted.  The front half follows the roof pitch and then drops 4ft to a flat ceiling at 8ft.  The storage deck is above this flat ceiling.  The only windows in this building are in these rooms.

 

I'll call one room the living space as it will have a bathroom with a walk-in shower as well as a kitchen.  There's room for a bed, small dining table and a comfortable area with a TV.

 

The other room is what I call a work room.  There will be a walk door and a hinged wall section that will allow a car to be moved into this space and then closed up again.  My intent is to use this area for mechanic work and restoration of small parts.  No sanding, welding, grinding, sawing, or blasting will happen in this room in an effort to keep it as clean as possible.  There will be a door to the porch area from this room.  

 

My challenge with with both rooms will be keeping them clean.  

 

Ideas, and suggestions are welcome!  Thanks!

 

 

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Edited by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)
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The covered porch in front of the two double doors is space that I plan to use for working my body panels.  There's a lot of sanding, grinding and welding that I want to do outside to better manage the dust.  I have some big woodworking tables that are on castors and they make a nice portable workbench. 

 

The exposed structure on the porch ceiling will likely be forever covered by end of day Monday. This is a change I made midflight. I did not insulate it but I would have if I had known that I was going to put a metal ceiling in it.  Exposed insulation would get pecked out by the birds.

 

Ive got electrical roughed-in for lights in this area in preparation for the metal.

 

Yesterday I shopped for four overhead garage doors.  I didn't buy because I went into shock after getting a $9+K quote for the doors and two openers.  I'm wanting a high lift track for the two double doors and this option is adding $2,300 to the cost.  Their explanation was insufficient.  Anybody have any ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

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Posted (edited)

How big are the doors?  I just had a 10ft wide x 9ft tall installed a couple of years ago and it was about $1,500.00 

 

You can always go down to Lowe's or similar and order a door and put it up yourself.  I have done that myself also.  it is not that hard, just takes some time and if a big door then some help.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

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Larry, I just looked at Lowes and they have a sale going on on garage doors.  I'll check this out further. One person on this Amish crew installs garage doors but has not installed an opener (they don't use electricity).  

 

I have three doors that are 16x7 and one that is 12' wide x 14' high.  

 

Thanks for for the suggestion.

Joel

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Keep in mind that if you have a lift near the door, you may need the track mounted so the door goes higher before turning so the door does not hit the raised vehicle.

The next decision is how to mount an opener on a door that is mounted this way.......I put my opener on the side of the door.  I will see if I have a photo

 

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Barney, I have a 4 post lift that I want to install directly behind the east most door bay.  It just makes sense to have high lift doors here but the door company said that it costs $100 per foot of high lift for each door (hardware).  Then, the opener would be $700 installed instead of $300.  Additional labor of $250 each. 

 

I have installed four overhead doors in my past and don't recall it being difficult but the last one was nearly 20 years ago.  I'm thinking I can muster the strength to do four more!  

 

I'm researching the high lift hardware and just don't see their added cost.  

 

By by the way, I'm looking at steel doors inside and out with foam insulation in between - a good sturdy door.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Happy Easter everyone.  Sittin' here in church just having come from Lowes where I priced Pella doors.  $900 each for the 16's and $1870 for the tall door.  This is not installed.  

 

Good comparison.

Edited by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

Barney, I have a 4 post lift that I want to install directly behind the east most door bay.  It just makes sense to have high lift doors here but the door company said that it costs $100 per foot of high lift for each door (hardware).  Then, the opener would be $700 installed instead of $300.  Additional labor of $250 each. 

 

I have installed four overhead doors in my past and don't recall it being difficult but the last one was nearly 20 years ago.  I'm thinking I can muster the strength to do four more!  

 

I'm researching the high lift hardware and just don't see their added cost.  

 

By by the way, I'm looking at steel doors inside and out with foam insulation in between - a good sturdy door.

 

 

 

 

 

I also bought the insulated doors for all of my purchases.  That is a good thing to buy.  Would never buy just a sheet metal door only.

 

Also, the installation of the door is not that hard but best to have two persons working together. 

 

There are two types of openers.  One that lifts the door pulling from the center of the door and mounted to the ceiling.  Most of them are this style.

 

The other is mounted on the side of the door and turns the rod that the springs are attached to. This one removes the center issue and saves space. I have not installed this one but have been told that it is not that hard.

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I vote for regular uninsulated doors and then just sticking styrofoam from any large retailer in them.  Much less expensive and just as effective.  I think we are voting now, ha!    

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Posted (edited)

If you think about it......the garage door just needs to go straight up for a longer distance, then curve before it hits the ceiling.  The door does not get longer so the hardware (tracks) that come with the door are long enough, you just need the curve in a different place.  Also, do not put any handles on the outside as they will hit the header as the door goes up....if the door has a torsion spring it needs to be mounted higher....just above the curved track

I have a 18" door and I mounted the opener, with the motor up, on the side.  You can see from the picture, the connection is down two section on the door, the reason is the top two sections turn at the ceiling.

The opener pulls straight up.....I made a bracket that is bolted to the door section and that connects to the opener.

The attached picture gives you an idea of the attachment.  This has been working for 18 years.

You will also notice I do not have insulated doors, but have retrofitted my using foam board and foam sealant in a can.  After cutting the foam board to size, I sprayed the foam sealant on the flat surface of the door then installed the section of insulating foam board, you might need some temporary spacers to hold the board in place until the foam hardens. 

 

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Edited by Barney Eaton (see edit history)
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So I gave that idea some thought and remembered that I did this to three doors, two that I installed new and one big door at a shop I had several years ago.  Those buildings are both heated and cooled.  Seemed to work okay.  

 

The reason I want insulated doors is to get the panel strength.  The door panels that have the steel sandwich with foam inside seem to be sturdier - although they are heavier.  Those with vinyl on the inside don't seem to have near the strength of steel.

 

 I think my best opportunity to reduce my cost would be to install these myself.  

 

One last thing, it seems to me that prices on goods and services like this have really escalated in the last few years.  Just last week I paid $76 for a 150 ft roll of wire mesh to make my own tomato cages.  It seems like twenty or so years ago I could get it for less than $25.  Have you priced a gallon of good auto paint?  Holy Cow!  And, forget about chroming.

 

oh, and speaking of chroming, I would at least like to be able to copper plate stuff in my new shop someday.

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 Barney I think I have been overthinking the high lift situation.  The physics of this are a little different because the whole door has to be lifted throughout the lifting cycle.  As the spring unwinds and assists the lifting, its ability to lift the last foot is much less, and to offset this, you'd need a spring with more coils.  But you've pretty much said the heck with that, I'll go straight up (well, almost straight up) and pull the door up and push it back down with a conventional opener mounted in an unconventional way.  You could even wind the spring a tad tighter to help the opener.

 

You may have just solved my highlift dilemma.

 

Thanks for your help!

Joel

 

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This picture may better show my set-up.  I have a 12 ft ceiling.  Door was installed and spring adjusted to balance weight, then the opener has little to do to raise and lower door.

The motor asm is above the rafters (cover is off.

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This would work very well with my two double doors.  I have 13 feet and then it follows the 4/12 roof pitch.  Mine would no more than turn the corner and then be done.

 

Barney, do you have the "conical" cable drums on each end of the shaft?  I can't tell that you do from the pic but I read where these are  helpful for high lift doors and it makes sense to me as they allow more initial lift distance per consumption of spring potential.  They are cheap to retrofit at about $35 for two of them.

 

This seems very clever Barney.  Do you get a good weather seal at the top of the door?  This may be a good place for another stiff-back  across the backside of that top panel.

 

Now, I'm thinking about the other two garage doors.  One double door has only 9 ft before it follows roof pitch and it shouldn't be too difficult to do something on an angle.  As for the 14 ft door, either use the opener attached to the shaft or buy two lift master openers and mount them vertically end to end and make the chain continuous.

 

im not going to be able to sleep now!

 

Thanks again!

Joel

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This was the last day for the Amish crew.  I'm pleased with their work and won't hesitate to call on them again.  Among the many positive characteristics is they will let you know when they have a better way than doing what you've asked.  I find comfort in those around me that keep me from doing stupid stuff!  Another interesting thing is that they are completely detached from world news and anything political.  I might even envy this a bit.

 

Ok here we go, some more pics; check out the ceiling under the porch.  I may have made a mistake in the metal direction but screwing it to the bottom of the rafters made sense - at least when  I thought about it.  Amish commented, "we usually run it the other way."

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Here's a couple pics of the plywood decking that was started above the paint booth and the living space/work room.  So far, the plywood is the only wood in this building not sawed on my mill.

 

 

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Edited by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)
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I'm not an engineer but it looks like the metal on the underside of the porch will be prone to holding any condensate and possibly result in water damage. 

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Yep, it would hold water - although the ends and seams aren't sealed.  Probably should have run it the other way.  At least conditions here that create that kind of sweating occurs rarely and this will be further attenuated by a fairly well sealed airspace above the ceiling.  I'll watch for drips.

 

 

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 When is the OPEN HOUSE, Joel?:)

 

  Looking good. You should be proud.

 

  Ben

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9 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

Yep, it would hold water - although the ends and seams aren't sealed.  Probably should have run it the other way.  At least conditions here that create that kind of sweating occurs rarely and this will be further attenuated by a fairly well sealed airspace above the ceiling.  I'll watch for drips.

 

 

 

I ran ran mine in my welding shed the same direction but have vents at top and bottom for air flow. I don't see cause for worrying about that much sweating in that small of an enclosed space and even if it does, your rafters are treated, metal roofing is galvalume and screws stainless... don worry about it....

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Just curious, in the 2-3' overhang area, are you getting any blowing rain puddling on the concrete deck and seeping underneath the bottom sill? 

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Yes, and this reminds me that I need to post some bloopers.  I had a trim piece made for this and I'll take a pic today to show you what I did.  So yes, rain water there but not seeping through.  Still, bad design - it's what I get for changes things late in the game.

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If you added a convenient store on one end you could be a small town....garage, home, motel, gas, and food stuffs.

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