My official 1936 D2 sedan resurrection thread

[30DodgePanel]

On 7/11/2019 at 4:34 AM, jpage said:

Most likely. I've found similar numbers stamped on various pieces. one number was stamped on the mounting flange of a rear fender.

 

 

jpage, not to hijack but  can you provide photo examples of this number? 

 

I'm looking at several angles in research and was just wondering if maybe we can help each other. If you would rather send me a PM and provide a build card that goes with a specific sample of this number that you're referring to I'm okay with that too. I've been tracking some things on trucks for a few years and I am trying to prove or disprove a theory that may help resolve this question for you and answer questions I have for other reasons... It may turn out to be nothing but I at least want to investigate it.

 

Thanks 
Dave

[36 D2 Coupe]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:37 AM, Pete in PA said:

Gasket set includes 2 large o-rings described as "cylinder liner seals." ??? Any thoughts on this mystery?

These must have been put in there by mistake. They would be used (I think) to seal sleeves in an engine that had the cylinders bored out and sleeved. This was what was done on a tractor I owned 35 years ago. The O-rings had leaked and we got antifreeze in the oil. Pushed the sleeves out, replaced the O-rings and all was well again.

[Pete in PA]

On 7/18/2019 at 2:19 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

 

 

jpage, not to hijack but  can you provide photo examples of this number? 

 

I'm looking at several angles in research and was just wondering if maybe we can help each other. If you would rather send me a PM and provide a build card that goes with a specific sample of this number that you're referring to I'm okay with that too. I've been tracking some things on trucks for a few years and I am trying to prove or disprove a theory that may help resolve this question for you and answer questions I have for other reasons... It may turn out to be nothing but I at least want to investigate it.

 

Thanks 
Dave

Dave, here's a pic of the mystery number stamped into the cowl of my D2 four door sedan.  The  Budd plate near the stamping is shown in another pic.  My car was built on 11/26/35 according to the build card.


Edit on 9/26/19: while searching for trim strip retaining clip part numbers I stumbled onto this bit of info in the 36-42 parts book: "4 door touring sedan bodies have been numbered up to 115400TS.  Then the numbering was resumed at 1001 with the suffix A added to the letters TS.  Therefore any bodies displaying the letter A should be considered as being built after 115400. "

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Pete in PA]

Jim, can you post a pic of the horn relay mounting method on your car?  I'm tracking down a relay since the one on my car was missing and none of the ones I see on the web look like they can be mounted to a round steering column tube.

[30DodgePanel]

6 hours ago, Pete in PA said:

Dave, here's a pic of the mystery number stamped into the cowl of my D2 four door sedan.  The  Budd plate near the stamping is shown in another pic.  My car was built on 11/26/35 according to the build card.

 

 

Thanks Pete,

 

What's the order # on your build card? 

 

 

[Pete in PA]

Shipping order # is 161965.  You can see a scan of the whole build card at the top of page 5 of this thread.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[jpage]

The 2 plates are from Chrysler Corp. The larger one is the corporate tag which just states Dodge Bros. Corp div. of Chrysler motors Detroit Mi. Trademark Registered. The small one is the actual Dodge body no. tag showing the cars official  WPC body number. The car's serial number, the one that was used for registration is mounted on the right "A" pillar. These plates used to be available from a company called Pulfer and Williams which is now defunct. I think Levine Restorations has bought the business but I didn't see any of these tags on their website.

               The number I spoke of is at the far upper right side of the firewall just under the cowl drain hose grommet is. The numbers are about 1/2 in. tall 6 digit on my car (that I can read as some are lightly stamped) and reads 112638. This number does not show up on any of the build info that I have. It must have been strictly a build number for Budd. Your number is low as it's an earlier car than mine. The body I'm using was a later production. Had to scrap the Dec. car.

  Pete, I'll have to get a photo of the relay and bracket and post it. Mine is not installed but it mounts to the lower steering column just a few inches above the oil hole near the box.

[Steve9]

Hi Pete, 

Here’s a pic of the horn relay on the steering column. This is for the dual horns. Don’t forget the 30 amp fuse.

Steve.

[Pete in PA]

Thanks for the reply and picture, Steve.  As I suspected my car is missing the mounting bracket that goes between teh actual relay and the round column.  another missing bit to track down...

[Pete in PA]

Update on the horn relay situation:  I did a web search this morning for a 36 Dodge horn relay bracket and came across this interesting tidbit:

https://www.ply33.com/Repair/horn

If this info applies to the D2 my car may not ever have had a horn relay.  The writer says that cars with single horns didn't get the relay while those with dual horns did.  My car has only one horn and it is mounted on the driver's side.  I assumed that it had two horns but one was removed for some reason.  Maybe not.  Thinking back I believe I came to the conclusion that it had two horns because I read somewhere long ago that due horns were part of an accessory package that also included dual windshield wipers.  My car does have dual wipers but maybe the second one was added by a PO.  A lot can happen to a car in 80+ years.

FWIW I see no scratches or other evidence on the steering column tube that anything was ever mounted there.

jpage, did I read that info about the accessory packing in the sales brochure you showed me?  Can you check that brochure and see if it says anything about option packages?

Kind of tough to spend time at the Dodge Garage right now.  Temps have been running around 95f with humidity levels in the 85% area.  Could hit 100f today  The sweat just pours off your body while standing still in the shade.  The pool is the place to be!

Relief arrives Tuesday after (of course) severe thunderstorms.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Steve9]

The picture also shows the grounding screw for the radio. It’s the small screw about 3 inches up the column. All cars that came with a radio had that grounding connection.

[Pete in PA]

I was going to ask about that screw and wire because it's not on my car.  Now I know why.  Thanks, Steve.

[Pete in PA]

Digging through the glovebox stuffed with parts stripped from the 36 Plymouth produced a bunch of door handles, rusty screws, etc.  Then I found the item in the following pic.  Is this a headlamp connector?  If it is it's damaged.  Someone used a pliers to forcibly remove it from its mate and both distorted it and sheared off one of the securing nubs.  Bummer.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Pete in PA]

Public thanks to Uptowndodge who, unsolicited, contacted me to say he had discovered one of the short trim strips that goes on the cowl area of my D2.  I was missing one and was on the lookout for one for sale but hadn't seen any.  Uptowndodge contacted me and gave me a smokin' deal on the piece I needed.  The part arrived with today's mail and looks great.  Thanks again, Uptowndodge!

[jpage]

That's the right connection. Did you happen to find 2? Many times the bakelight plug is broken or missing. You'll see the numbers 1-2-3 on it. These numbers correspond with the the headlamp wires so they line up with the correct wires in the lamp. many of the brass couplers can be found cracked. With care they can be gently reshaped, soldered and repaired. To get the wires out, pull back on the coupler then push down on the plug far enough to allow the wires to pass through the slots between the holes.

      According to my parts book, the Deluxe access. group "A" consisted of the dual horn service package, the auxillary tailamp service package, the auxillary sun visor service package, the auxillary wiper service package and the cigar lighter service package. These options may have been available  separate from the Deluxe inclusive package as each is listed as a separate service item. I wouldn't doubt that like today, many cars were built with certain options installed at the factory prior to deliver to the dealers. I think that by '36 dual tailamps and dual wipers , like bumpers , were pretty much standard equipment on most new cars just for safety purposes. Glad you found the cowl piece, they are like hens teeth! There are certain pieces, that if they come into one's possession, they best remain there because one may never find another!

[jpage]

My column jacket has the small hole about 7-8 in. above the jacket clamp.There is a spring type cover that goes over it. It looks to be in the same location of the hole that is said to be for radio grounding. No breakdown drawings in any of my books show any holes in the jacket save the oil hole just above the jacket clamp. There is no lower oil hole in my jacket located just above the jacket clamp as shown in the breakdown drawings or in any of the other jackets I have. My parts book does list a steering column ground screw but again it doesn't appear in any drawings.I would have thought that the column grounded through the frame mounts , but why would it need grounded in the first place? I did notice, just now, in going over the drawing and parts ID in my March '36 parts book, that the drawing must be of an earlier unit and many of the numbered parts do not match their parts name. In fact, to me, it doesn't even resemble the '34 or '35 drawings in my maintenance book! Go figure!

[Steve9]

Let me go into the full radio screw story. My friend Greg, who had a photographic memory, was a lifelong 1936 Dodge man. He came home from the hospital in a 1936 Dodge. He crossed the USA collecting parts. He knew ever single bolt on the car by thread pitch, length,etc. He knew part numbers, by heart. He found and bought an unrestored 36 roadster. As he got older, he got Lupus, which slowed him down, and eventually claimed his life. He sold the roadster to a neighbor who restored it immediately ( body shop owner). When he spoke on anything 36 Dodge, it wasn’t a guess, HE KNEW EVERYTHING! 

When I joined the local Chrysler club, he contacted me and we met. I was at his house, told him my car was complete, save for one bumper bolt cover. He open a drawer in a cabinet and tossed one to me. He was my personal 36 Dodge Jesus. I miss him every day. 

When you need to know everything about your car and meet someone like this,   

its incredible. He came over an saw my car. He told me my car was a factory radio car because of the hole 4 inches down the column on the top of the column was where  the radio ground screw connected. I need to close now and go blow my nose. 

Steve.

[Pete in PA]

Steve, I too wish I could speak with Greg.  He could save me a lot of aggravation.  He sounds like he was a real treasure.

My aggravation at the moment is finding a fuel tank.  All I see online are poly fuel tanks.  No thanks.  MAke mine steel, please.  It seems like you can buy a new steel tank for many, many Dodge cars of that time period but not for a 36.  I wonder why.

I had momentary hope when I saw that Andy Bernbaum's website said We have many used and NOS tanks for years and models listed above.  Call us!"  So I did.  And they don't have any for my 36.  

 

As for getting one made locally, I have no idea where to start.  I've lived in this area for 21 years and I can't recall ever seeing a sheet metal fabrication shop .  I guess I need to do a web search.

If anyone manages to find a steel tank for a D2 please let me know.  Mine is junk. It's so badly rusted inside that the anti-slosh baffle has broken loose and bashes around inside the tank when I tilt it.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[ArticiferTom]

If it still holds fuel you have a better that most tank . Show some pics of . Mine was rotted through top and baffles and pic up tube loose . I cut top out for rectangle patch to cover all holes . Scrapped and de-rusted insides . Then took to local shop ,had loose parts fixed and top welded on . They even solder near end where there over heating damaged . I opted for no coating . Instead use non-ethanol fuel with Marine grade Stabile with Vapor technology . No rust in last two years .

[Pete in PA]

Several pics of my tank on page 5 of this thread.

I guess it still holds fuel because it had about 3 gallons of foul smelling "used to be gasoline" in it until a few weeks ago.  Wow does that stuff smell bad!  What would happen if I put in 10 or 12 gallons I can't say.  But I can see severe rusting inside and I can hear the baffle thumping around when I rotate the tank.  And then there's the fact that the bottom is bashed in from some unknown event decades ago.

I suppose I could cut a sizeable portion of the top away, hammer out the bottom and scrape the inside surfaces through that opening, and somehow close up the top again.  Maybe with a new, larger piece of metal riveted and soldered to seal it.  

I guess I got spoiled when I saw the beautiful new tank that jpage had made for his D2 and you can see that on page 2 of this thread.

I did a web search for metal fabricators and found a shop in Philly.  I emailed them my request and attached a few pics of my tank.  I don't expect to hear anything from them until Monday at the earliest.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Telephone would be a lot quicker!

[ArticiferTom]

I know what you mean this is mine being scraped out hole in top . I then used electrolyze  on it follow by Evapo-rust chemical . I think PO tried to coat inside .

[Pete in PA]

12 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Telephone would be a lot quicker!

True, but 1) I discovered that they exist on a Saturday when they are closed and 2) using email means that I could send pictures of my old tank along with my request.  It'll be interesting to hear what they say, hopefully this coming week.  Junior is back from camp and we want to move forward on the D2.

[Pete in PA]

11 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

I know what you mean this is mine being scraped out hole in top . I then used electrolyze  on it follow by Evapo-rust chemical . I think PO tried to coat inside .

Wow, that's gruesome!  I'm surprised to see how clean and smooth the metal is.  I don't see any rust or perforations at all!  But that crap that you scraped off looks a lot like the stuff I scrape out of the chimney liner when I do my annual woodstove cleaning.

I know I've recently mentioned cutting a large opening in the top of the tank but it occurred to me last night that it might be better to cut out the damaged area on the *bottom* of the tank.  This could work at least as a temporary measure to get me going until I find a good used tank or someone to make  a new one.

[ArticiferTom]

You are seeing bottom , the top had numerous rust throughs . And the tank had it first Evapo -Rust treatment already . Here is cleaning pic .

[jpage]

There's a place called Tanks Inc. that lists a poly tank for '35-'36 Mopars for $250. If push came to shove that might be something to consider.

[Pete in PA]

I've seen 5 or 6 different places offer the polyethylene tank.  What's weird is that for years before and after 1936 there are steel tanks available.  I wonder why the 36 gets special treatment.  I don't want to go the poly tank route, at least not yet.  I'll try repairing my old tank before going poly.

Coming up on 2 weeks elapsed since I ordered my exhaust system from Roberts..  Gary said 2-5 weeks estimated to delivery.  I can dream, right?

I think I'll head to the Dodge Garage before teh thunderstorms roll in.  I'll pull the carburetor and take it apart to see what's what in there.  Hopefully it's just varnish and no corroded/holed float.

[Pete in PA]

Sheet metal shop called me. They *might* be able to make a tank for me. Guy sounded very hesitant. I’m not optimistic. Son and I will take the old tank to them tomorrow for a personal inspection.

[Steve9]

Pete, I’m hesitant for you using this guy. My favorite old saying, “ Anybody will take your money “. I didn’t go for the Pebble Beach job on my car and I had the same stump jumper job on my tank and I went with the poly tank and forgot about it. It’s your car so good luck going steel. But I gotta tell you, the poly tank is such a good fit, I even used the original mounting straps.

[jpage]

I agree with Steve9, if the guy isn't confident stay away! The poly tank will probably do the job and you really can't see it unless you're under the car. Besides, the price looks good. If you don't like it, you could always send it back.

[Pete in PA]

Our visit to the metal fabrication shop was interesting.  Anytime you drive through the area north of Girard Avenue in north Philly you're going to see stuff that gets your attention.  Fortunately no bullets were flying this morning.  Later today?  Who knows...

The shop was in no way equipped to make a fuel tank.  Their main job is doing HVAC ductwork.  The tank was greeted with oohs and aahs of admiration for the seam joining and crimping and soldering.  It was obvious after 2 minutes that these guys would no be able to help me.

Steve I'm glad to hear that the poly tank fits well.  That was a major concern of mine.  I'll  reconsider it.  If nothing else I can try one and use it temporarily.

Meanwhile the 3 week mark approaches and I'm jonesing for my exhaust system.

[Alan Cutler]

 

1 hour ago, Pete in PA said:

 Anytime you drive through the area north of Girard Avenue in north Philly you're going to see stuff that gets your attention.  Fortunately no bullets were flying this morning.  Later today?  Who knows....

 

Was born on North Broad St in the mid-60's....so glad I got out of there!

[jpage]

My cousin's son recently moved into inner city Philly. One day he went to his bank...during a  Brinks truck robbery! I don't think I'd like to live in any city today! I got the creeps just walking down the street last time I was in Philly!  Hope you get your pipes soon, today one never knows if they will ever receive the parts they order! I've contacted a couple of companies to repair my emblems and still haven't heard back! That was last week!

[Alan Cutler]

2 hours ago, jpage said:

 I've contacted a couple of companies to repair my emblems and still haven't heard back! That was last week!

 

Ray @ www.emblemagic.com, service@emblemagic.com , he was the cheapest of the 3 I called. Had a backlog of 9 months.

 

Be careful to measure your mounting studs prior to shipping, he moved mine, so I had to do a bit of manipulating to get it to re-mount correctly...looks good though.

[jpage]

I know of them, but I also contacted Mrs. Maxwell but haven't heard anything yet. Maybe she isn't doing it anymore.

[Alan Cutler]

20 minutes ago, jpage said:

I know of them, but I also contacted Mrs. Maxwell but haven't heard anything yet. Maybe she isn't doing it anymore.

 

Spoke to them about 3 years ago....also try www.nostalgicreflections.com, Jerry Turner, he is on my side, up in Wash State. Vic and I got quotes....back then he was high.

[jpage]

Thanks for the info. today, everybody seems high! I think this hobby would have a good shot in the arm if everybody came back to earth on pricing! Prices on Ebay are out of this world!

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by jpage (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

On 7/21/2019 at 6:52 AM, Steve9 said:

Let me go into the full radio screw story. My friend Greg, who had a photographic memory, was a lifelong 1936 Dodge man. He came home from the hospital in a 1936 Dodge. He crossed the USA collecting parts. He knew ever single bolt on the car by thread pitch, length,etc. He knew part numbers, by heart. He found and bought an unrestored 36 roadster. As he got older, he got Lupus, which slowed him down, and eventually claimed his life. He sold the roadster to a neighbor who restored it immediately ( body shop owner). When he spoke on anything 36 Dodge, it wasn’t a guess, HE KNEW EVERYTHING! 

When I joined the local Chrysler club, he contacted me and we met. I was at his house, told him my car was complete, save for one bumper bolt cover. He open a drawer in a cabinet and tossed one to me. He was my personal 36 Dodge Jesus. I miss him every day. 

When you need to know everything about your car and meet someone like this,   

its incredible. He came over an saw my car. He told me my car was a factory radio car because of the hole 4 inches down the column on the top of the column was where  the radio ground screw connected. I need to close now and go blow my nose. 

Steve.

Great story.

Mike Northcutt that owned Dodge City Vintage was the same way with the 33 34 35 Dodge trucks. He passed 8 years ago from a Brain Aneurysm.

[Pete in PA]

In anticipation of the exhaust system arriving my son and I decided to remove the carburetor and see how bad things are in there.  It's a Stromberg carb and has the characters "EXV-2" embossed into the cast iron lower section (which contains the throttle valve).  There's also a brass tag held to the float chamber and that has "3-26B" embossed into it as well as 6 square areas with inspection numbers.  I'll post some pics later today.

The carb was kind of grimy on the outside but fairly clean inside.  There's red powdery stuff in the float bowl, probably rust from the tank.

 

Linkages to the carb were kind of jiggy with pieces of thin wire wrapped around linkage ends to hold them on.  Lost clips and/or cotter pins I suppose.  Someone bent the choke cable sheath clamping arm on the intake manifold pretty severely.  Maybe 90 degrees upward.  I'm guessing that the choke cable broke and was shortened.  I need to look into this.

The brass parts inside the carb (including the float) look so shiny and smooth that I have to believe that this carb was rebuilt shortly before the car was parked inside.  Float level looks lo to my eye but maybe it is correct.  I'll have to get a gasket kit to put it back together.

I was surprised by the 3/8" thick fibre spacer between the carb upper (potmetal) and lower (cast iron) sections.  Probably a heat insulator.

The spare carb that came with the car is a Carter and from what I've read that's the one used on Plymouth models.  The Aussie service manual I have says that the Carter was used on Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, and Desoto models sold down under.  I find it odd that Ma Mopar would use the Carter carb on so many models but not the Dodge.  Was it better?  Was it worse?  Why bother engineering all the necessary attachment fittings for Dodge?

[Pete in PA]

Here are the carb pics.  After doing some internet research I learned that the carb model number is always stamped on teh flange of mid- to- late 30s Stromberg carbs.  Sure is on mine.  And the silver paint on that flange tells me that this is the original carb for my car's engine.  I'll order a gasket kit tomorrow.  I don't think i'll need anything else.