1918? big six

[Guest trap442w30]

I'm trying to find out more info on a Studebaker I'm buying,  Its been in a barn since the 1990's and I'm assuming its a 1918 big six because it has jump seats that fold and slide under the back seat and has 1918 license plates on it.  It is frame number 214733, I don't know where to look for engine numbers or body numbers.  I also have a few questions...The right headlight is clear, the left headlight is purple and dimpled, there are no bars or wings on the radiator cap.  Is there anything I should do to the top before trying to fold it down (to protect or preserve the top material), any hints on what to do before trying to start it after sitting for at least 3 decades?  I can turn the engine over by hand, so it is not seized.  Thanks

[Mark Huston]

The frame serial number applies to the 1917 ED Series 18 Studebaker.   The frame serial number range for the 1917 ED Series 18 is:  207,501 – 233,495.  The engine number range is:  9,580 – 35,966.  I am not familiar with the location of the engine number on this model. 

Regarding the top, I was involved with the long distance transport of an early Studebaker touring that had been in storage for over 30 years.   The top was in good condition but very old.   We tried to prevent damage by folding the top and covering it, however, it still suffered damage in the transport.   If you are moving your car on an open trailer, even if you put the top down, it will still flap around and cause damage where the top folds along the creases.   I would suggest either moving the car in an enclosed trailer or removing the complete touring top from the car and storing it in the back of the pickup truck bed out of the direct force of the wind to prevent the top material from flapping.   Unfortunately, if the top material is brittle it could still crack or tear when folded during transport. 

[1927Chevy]

i had my 23 big six touring car hauled from new york to chicago enclosed trailer because i did not want to put the top down fearing it would never be the same.  it required a special trailer tall enough inside to drive it in with top up.  paid around 1500 still have the guys number might be more now and i think he is based in chicago favors east coast trips.

[Guest trap442w30]

Thanks guys, I only live 1-1/2 miles from car location, unfortunately my garage is 4" too short to clear the top.  I'm looking at what it would cost to throw together a small shed for it, but I keep wanting to put more stuff in it and the "shed" turns into a huge garage.  Where there a lot of changes between 1917 ED and 1918 EG.  I ordered a 1918-1924 repair manual and I am assuming it will work well enough for 1917.

[Guest studebuga]

Hi your 1918-1924 repair manual may not be that much use to you as from 1918 Studebaker dropped the transaxle placed the gearbox behind the engine and went to a detachable head. What you need to get is a book called ; This is a Studebaker year Vol 5 Early Fours and Sixes 1913-17

hope this is same help,

cheers

Chris

[Guest studebuga]

Hello again trap

The clear lens is the correct one that year the pink one is for a later model 1923-24 I think. As for the radiator cap it is the correct one just bakelite no wings etc.

Cheers

Chrism

PS I have a 1917 ED 6 roadster which I'm restoring and looking for a radiator surround for it 

[Trulyvintage]

Before trying to lower the top - carefully clean it with a mild cleaner - then appy a fabric conditioner to it before trying to lower it.

Take your time & use two people to gently lower it.

Definitely transport it to it's new home in an enclosed trailer.

Do not hand crank further withut removing the spark plugs & spraying fogging oil in each cylinder - then letting it sit overnight.

If you have little or no experience going further than that - befriend someone who does or hire an experienced mechanic.

 

 

Jim

[Spinneyhill]

Haatz give good advice on top cleaning. As Jim says, use a gentle cleaner, gently. Do not use a "conditioner" containing silicon. I spent hours looking into top conditioners when I had an MX5 and the only one worthwhile is RAGGTOP. This came from many fora I looked at plus restoration shops.

 

http://www.haartz.com/cleaning-guide/vinyl-top-cleaning

[studeq]

Have lots of data on the 1917 Series 18. Some of the items are shown below. By the way this series is the only one that had the reversible front passenger seat. If you are looking for information on originality The Studebaker National Museum has a Six that has just over 3,000 original miles and is near perfect. I am also including a image of it below.

[Guest trap442w30]

Wow, that is an incredible amount of info on the 1917.  I might have to make a trip to the museum.  Do you have a copy of chart D that I can read, it looks interesting, but I can't make out the words.  Also, were bumpers options?  The literature I've seen doesn't show them, that photo looks like a solid one, and the newer models look like they would have some spring to them.  I've also seen them painted or plated.

[rbk]

On 11/29/2016 at 3:01 AM, studebuga said:

Hi your 1918-1924 repair manual may not be that much use to you as from 1918 Studebaker dropped the transaxle placed the gearbox behind the engine and went to a detachable head. What you need to get is a book called ; This is a Studebaker year Vol 5 Early Fours and Sixes 1913-17

hope this is same help,

cheers

Chris

 

This is a Studebaker year series books are available at Amazon.

 

[Guest trap442w30]

I just ordered the book.  I need a crash course on old cars....The closest things I've owned to compare to this Studebaker is my 1972 Oldsmobile 442 (not very close) and a 1962 Inland Seas Steel Clipper (which had a pair of 327 gray marine engines), closer, but still quite a bit different.  My dad had a 1947 Towmotor fork lift....at least it was an inline 6 cylinder with a 6 volt system (until we switched it to 12 volt).

[studeq]

9 hours ago, trap442w30 said:

Wow, that is an incredible amount of info on the 1917.  I might have to make a trip to the museum.  Do you have a copy of chart D that I can read, it looks interesting, but I can't make out the words.  Also, were bumpers options?  The literature I've seen doesn't show them, that photo looks like a solid one, and the newer models look like they would have some spring to them.  I've also seen them painted or plated.

 

Yes, the bumpers were optional. Before you make a trip to the museum be sure to call ahead (574-235-9714) and talk to Andy Beckman to be sure the car is there. Occasionally they loan cars out to other museums.

Re that technical chart each of the four pages is a large 11 X 17" and 2-color. Price for excellent copies of all four is $35 plus postage. See image below. Have lots more not shown.

 

[Guest trap442w30]

I would like them and will probably get them eventually (let me know what other stuff you have for this model), but I got laid off a couple weeks ago and shouldn't even be buying this car.  It was owned by my dads best friend and they both passed away last year.  His son just showed me the title today, it has the correct serial number on it, but it's titled as a 1918.  It's obviously a 1917 model because of the 122" wheelbase, reversible passenger seat and transaxle.  I know the car was in Arizona in the 1950's and 60's.  Was it common to have a 1917 model titled as a 1918?  Did they only build this model in Detroit?  because the serial number plate says South Bend, Ind, Detroit, Mich, Walkerville, Ontario, Can.  Are there any records on where a certain serial number was made or where it was originally sold?  Are there body or engine numbers on this model and where would I find them?

Thanks

[studeq]

The serial number is on a plate attached to the frame under the drivers side front fender. The engine number is STAMPED INTO the block on the top left side (range 207501 to 233495). Over 95% of the 17 series 18 cars were assembled in Detroit. A little known fact is that, as an experiment, Studebaker had set up assembly points in St Louis (211), Chicago (1155) and South Bend (968) starting in Jan 1917 but these were quickly phased out after 5 mos as the U.S. declared war on the Central Powers in April 1917 and A. R. Erskine offered Studebaker's production facilities for the war effort. Of course Studebaker also maintained its Canadian branch in Walkerville, Ont. mostly for the Canadian trade and export (1279). Numbers in parenthesis represent total production of model ED Six cylinder cars in each site in the year 1917. By way of comparison 19,550 ED's were assembled in Detroit so the odds are pretty strong that you car was also.  Below the introductory article on the Series 18 from the December 1916 issue of The Studebaker News dealer magazine.

[Guest trap442w30]

That article was very interesting....with their theme of no radical changes....knowing what was to come the following year.  I managed to get the ignition unlocked by playing with an old Yale key I had.  I reversed the front passenger seat to see what it looks like, and had one working low and high beam.  The other side has power, just need a bulb.   I think the side curtains are stored in the top,  I'll wait for a warmer day to look at them.  The battery is under the passenger seat, and there is storage everywhere, in all four doors, under drivers seat, in the floor between the front and back seats.  The valves for fuel on top of the engine - one has broken handle (it wasn't me) and most of the rest are frozen.  I'm guessing these valves are hard to come by.  The battery discharge meter works, won't know about the charge side until its running.  I did notice the hand crank has one of the two tangs broke off.  Do you happen to have a bulb number for the headlight....and taillight for that matter, even though I haven't looked at the taillight yet.

[studeq]

Headlights 7- volt 12 candle power, tail lights 7-volt, 2 candlepower.

 

You should at minimum get a copy of the owner's manual as shown in my previous post. Quality reprint $30.00.

Edited December 3, 2016 by studeq (see edit history)

[studeq]

A family vacation in the American southwest in 1918 in a Studebaker model ED Six. Unusual hand colored set. There are 7 more.

 

 

[Guest trap442w30]

Was there a lot of variation in the models during production, or different factory options, or aftermarket options.  Looking at the one in the museum - the luggage rack on the left running board, the yellow lights and the spotlight, were these aftermarket?  The same for the tool box on the right running board from the Family Vacation set, or was it just a common practice to attach a tool box there.  Also the radiator cap, some had bars like the museum one, and the family vacation had a flag holder and, I'm assuming, no temperature indicator.  The lockable ignition, was that standard or an option.  The family vacation picture also shows chains on the front wheels....on a rear wheel drive car with no front brakes.  Maybe it helped climb out of ruts, but it still looks weird.

When the previous owner purchased this car 3 decades ago, he purchased it from an auction of a high end collector, the story I heard is that princes and sheiks were bidding on the cars, no one was bidding on this one, so the previous owner bought it.  I keep wondering why this car was mixed in with all the high end cars.  It was probably just sentimental, but I can always hope there is something special about it.

[studeq]

Four pages on the Series 18 from the December 1918 issue of THE AUTOMOBILE.

 

 

[studeq]

1 hour ago, trap442w30 said:

Was there a lot of variation in the models during production, or different factory options, or aftermarket options.  Looking at the one in the museum - the luggage rack on the left running board, the yellow lights and the spotlight, were these aftermarket?  The same for the tool box on the right running board from the Family Vacation set, or was it just a common practice to attach a tool box there.  Also the radiator cap, some had bars like the museum one, and the family vacation had a flag holder and, I'm assuming, no temperature indicator.  The lockable ignition, was that standard or an option.  The family vacation picture also shows chains on the front wheels....on a rear wheel drive car with no front brakes.  Maybe it helped climb out of ruts, but it still looks weird.

When the previous owner purchased this car 3 decades ago, he purchased it from an auction of a high end collector, the story I heard is that princes and sheiks were bidding on the cars, no one was bidding on this one, so the previous owner bought it.  I keep wondering why this car was mixed in with all the high end cars.  It was probably just sentimental, but I can always hope there is something special about it.

 

No, there was not much variation in production models....almost none. Most of what you mention was aftermarket. Chains on front were used to keep the front end from sliding.

 

[Mark Huston]

22 hours ago, trap442w30 said:

 Was it common to have a 1917 model titled as a 1918?

Yes, it is.   Many states used the year the car was first sold as the model year on the title.  Example, my 1929 Studebaker President was built in late January 1929 (according to serial number and factory production records) and when I acquired the car the title listed the car as a 1930 model sold in 1930.   I was able to get the department of motor vehicles, after documenting the car as a 1929 model, to change the title to show the car as a 1929 model sold in 1930.  

[Guest trap442w30]

At this point, my goals are pretty big...The car hasn't moved in 30 years, its in a building with no heat, no water and 100 feet from 120volt power.  It will be 100 years old next year and our town (Elyria, OH)(past location of the Garford) will be celebrating 200 years.  We usually have a car show and parade.  I'd like to just clean it up, get it running and be in the parade.  It would also be cool to go to South Bend next year with it, but it would really be a stretch to find a new job that will let me take time off and to have the car reliable enough to go that distance. 

[Guest trap442w30]

Well, I aired up the tires, freed up the horn (first nothing, tapped on it a bit, then a growl, kept tapping and honking until I finally got the AH-OOOO-GA).  I freed up the fuel priming valves, poured about 3 cap fulls of oil in them and two of them sprayed an oil mist 4' in the air when I cranked it over.  With the priming valves shut, the cranking would really slow on those two cylinders.  I opened up the valve cover on the side and all the lifters are lifting and rotating, but I have about 4 valves that stuck open (nowhere near the valve spring force of my 442...I bet you don't even need a spring compressor)  I'll wait until the "this is a Studebaker year vol. 5" arrives,  and see what's in that, I'll also see what's in the owners manual before I go any further...not familiar with an engine with a non removable head.  If I knew I was going to end up with the car, I would have at least cranked it over once a year.  It's got a long way to go, but I'm getting excited.  I don't know where you would get parts for this...Autozone, Advanced, O'reilys, RockAuto don't even get within 10 years of this.  Napa lists sparkplugs and that's it.  I've been complaining about the price of tires on the newer cars.....I think I'll stop complaining...when the new cars get to 34" tires, they will probably be just as expensive.

[Enzo777enzo]

hello i m working in Studebaker 1917 big six ED.-  i need starter, distribuitor and top , where go the distribuitor in front of engine.-  I need the starter clutch, its go in the crankshaft.-    the control go in the center of wheel driver, to control de spark and carbureitor.-

i m from Santa Rosa - La Pampa Argentina. 

I apreciate pics of parts, manuals etc.-

my mail is rodriguezdieguez@cpenet.com.ar

regards

Enzo

[keninman]

Looks like universal has your tires, tubes and flap for $364 (each) + shipping. Before I ordered I would dismount all and see what condition the tubes and flaps were in. I had two tubes that I believe are better than the new ones I bought. Two flaps also would have been okay but the newer ones were heavier duty and offered wider protection. I used one flap and old tire for my spare but used a new tube. 

 

I tried running around on the tires my 29 had on it, I ran over a stick  coming into the driveway and ran it through one front tire. I still have the darn stick just to show people. If those are split rims like mine and you aim to replace the tires yourself a Hercules Rim Tool is necessary in my opinion.  They can be had for $40 to $50 on Ebay and make life so much easier for changing tires and preventing damage. Whatever you do don't damage one of those rims, you'll be sorry. 

 

As for your valves, I am no expert on this old of an engine but I have freed up engines by pouring the cylinders full of kerosene and letting it set a bit (like overnight) then rotate by hand.  I am sure though that there are many here better suited to advise you about this than I. I am jealous of your find and it is a good one. It is a shame you can't just rent space where it is to store and work on it. It looks like it fits in with the building. 

 

Note: the tire in the picture was on the car as thespare but was way too big for the car.

 

 

[Guest trap442w30]

I need to get a rim tool....there's so many Model T ones out there it will take a while until I find one large enough.  I was holding off on tires until after Elyria Ohio's Bicentennial Parade yesterday.  I think my tires are too hard for a stick to go through them.  (I'm guessing they are from the 1950's)  I thought my car would make it through the parade.....then they lengthened the route to let more people see it.  There were only a couple old cars in the parade.  The 1931 Pierce Arrow pulled off first due to the clutch heating up.  The 1919 Buick got within a couple blocks of the end and stopped running.  I think the slow speeds were causing the engine to load up (as was mine).  I made it another block when I overheated.  I think the 1922 Studebaker was the only one to get to the end.

[keninman]

I didn't make the end of my first parade. The condenser failed and I fought the engine most of the way through but finally decided to drive off early . I almost made it back to by buddy's home before it quit me. Luckily Oreilly's was open and I picked up a new condenser and filed he points. 

[Spinneyhill]

9 hours ago, keninman said:

I picked up a new condenser and filed he points. 

 

Hopefully you used a points file so it did not leave cuttings embedded in the points?