1929 Peerless Model 6-81 Sedan specifications

[Guest marage95]

Hello everyone, I recently came across a 1929 Peerless Model 6-81 Sedan on Craigslist but I am unable to find any specifications on this vehicle. How can I find information on the 1929 Peerless Model 6-81 Sedan such as the production number, interior and exterior color info, and if other car parts will fit on the Peerless for example; will Chevrolet or Ford parts fit on this Peerless (mainly lights, engine, and suspension). Any little info would be very helpful. Thanks  

[jeff_a]

Thanks for stopping in....I'm glad you found the Peerless Forum somehow. The 6-81 was a 1929 model with some continuation cars titled as 1930s. Supposedly about 2,900 built. If you go to the topic "Peerless Model Numbering" back on 2/8/13, [please go back to page 4 of results, currently] there's a breakdown of 15 models from about 1923-on. Go to "How to Identify your Peerless", too, back on 8/4/15 [see page 2 of results, currently] for serial # runs. A 6-81 has a 66 h.p.(vs. Ford with 40 h.p. and Chevrolet with 46 h.p.), 248 Cu. In.(vs. Ford with 200 Cu. In. and Chevrolet with 194 Cu. In.) Continental engine and cost $1,595(vs. Ford at $500 and Chevrolet at $595 for sedans). 6th year for Lockheed hydraulic brakes on Peerlesses. Peerless that year had a price range of $1,195 to 2,295 and a horsepower range of 62 to 114(more h.p. than any 1929 GM car, including all 8 lines). The 4 Peerless models were 6-61, 6-81, 6-91, and 8-125. I'm not aware of any Ford or Chevrolet parts that would fit a 1929 Peerless 6-81. Does the one FS have an engine?

 

It's a little hard at first to find your way around here -- but the topics(threads) are arranged in chronological order based on when-last-added-to. Within each topic, the posts are arranged the same way. [Right now, there are 9 pages needed for our 220 topics on the Peerless Forum.] What's neat is that there are posts about Peerless going back to February, 2000.

 

Where is the car at? No reference books on Peerless in print, although Richard Lichtfeld wrote a 29 page booklet on the company history in 2009, not distributed commercially. No coffee table books on Peerless, but if you want photos, get a copy of Automobile Quarterly from 1973, Vol. 11, No. 1. One's for sale on ebay now for $6(it has a cover with Japanese calligraphy & a 32 page story about Peerless). The Peerless Forum is book-length now. I'm happy to help you with any more questions.

Edited December 5, 2016 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest marage95]

Hey, Jeff, thanks for responding. The car is located in Toledo, Ohio and has been posted on AACA in the past. The car appears to be in very good condition and the engine is the Continental 248 cubic inches that runs bottle feed due to issues with the fuel line. The low production and rarity of this or any vehicle brings up another question? Does having a rare car help or hurt the value of the vehicle? On one side of the augment you can say that the rarity increase the demand for the car increasing the price. But on the other augment, you can say that it’s rarity decrease the value because parts are going to be so hard to find and what parts you are able to find are going to be so expensive it will ruin the joy of restoring a vehicle. I think I will also post this question in the general discussion.

[jeff_a]

   The photos don't show up on my screen, but I figured out how to view them and what car it is about 7:30 this morning. I haven't seen it in person, but remember Tom Wallace and Brian Coffee {both from Dayton, OH and with respectable car collections} have had it since coming out of 50 years of storage in western PA. Unless you find signs of a repaint, that may be the original paint on a 33,000-mile car. 1 of the 10 factory colors for 1929 was Obsidian Blue...and I could believe that is it on the car.

   The 6-81 is really the 3rd development of the Mod. 6-80. In '26 and '27, Peerless built this version with an "A" on the body plate -- it's first car with a Continental engine(Detroit & Muskegon, MI-built), 230 Cu. In. The B ) version was a mostly cosmetic change for 1928, some new colors, a very stylish 6-gauge instrument panel, a different roof visor, and some other things. The C) version was the 6-81 for '29, with different wheels, tires, fenders, radiator shell, and a slightly different motor. It went from an 8U(230 Cu. In.) to an 18C(248 Cu. In.), 63 to 66 HP, and evenly-spaced to un-evenly-spaced spark plugs.

   I'm a student of the Peerless Company, and where all of the surviving cars are worldwide, but can't really answer the questions about rarity, demand, value, price, joy-of-restoring, and parts availability. There is a trickle of Peerless parts on ebay

   I tried to add up the numbers of surviving Peerlesses, Packards, and Pierce-Arrows a few years ago and concluded Packards are about 16 times as numerous as Peerlesses, and there are about 6 times as many Pierces still around. There are probably more Duesenbergs around than there are Peerlesses.

   I can tell you there are a couple of 6-81s FS on the Peerless Motor Car Club site: www.peerlessmotorcarclub.com ; there are 354 possible Peerless cars and trucks remaining out of 108,116 built between 1900 and 1931. There aren't any 1902s still around, only one 1921, about 40 1927s, about 60 1929s, and 16 6-81s -- as far as my registry shows(KPAIE). On the "Peerless For Sale Department" thread[see page 3 of posts in that thread, or topic], there's a rough estimate of Peerlesses for sale: 26.

   I've never seen a Peerless sell for less than $2,000[a rickety, non-running '27 made into a flatbed pickup in the 30s or 40s] or more than $469,000[a Model 29 '10 Victoria Landau with Brewster Body in good condition]. People with late model cars believe in spare parts, I guess, 'cause there is such a thing for 10 or 20 years after your car is new. Except for tires and tubes, there isn't a factory cranking out many Peerless parts* like there is for '25 Ts and '65 Mustangs. Ralph Cartonio amassed a large depot of spare parts up in ME, but he died a year ago. Brian Coffee acquired a lot of parts, too, in 2011......and has started selling some of them on ebay. You can buy an entire spare engine today for the Six-81 from him if you'd like. Or 3 Peerless frames.

 

* Parts Reproduced for 1900-1932 Peerlesses. I'll try to think of a few:

• tires, tubes, metal valve stems
• Don Sommer in Novi, MI makes a beautiful cast stainless steel Peerless Eagle radiator mascot
• somebody in Irving, CA makes a bronze Peerless Eagle mascot 
• the Model A supply catalogs; and Restoration Supply Co., www.RestorationStuff.com, sell top insert material, running board mat, hardware like oval machine screws, hose clamps, hood lacing, and rear view mirrors...all generic...but several items should work for Peerless cars. RSC lists not only reproduction Boyce motometers, ($63 to $98 in chrome[no base or cap included, don't know where you'd get one]), but their online catalog lists Peerless logo emblems for them($10 extra).

 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by jeff_a
added comment on repro parts (see edit history)

[Guest marage95]

Yes it was Tom Wallace who posted the car for sale. I’m surprised that it hasn’t sold yet. Wow, that seems like a lot of work trying to keep up with all the Peerless, Packard, and Pierce-Arrows worldwide. I hear a lot about the 3 Ps, were they called the 3 Ps because they all started with the letter P and made luxury cars or did they have some kind of partnership? Do you own a Peerless, if so what model?

[jeff_a]

The "Three Ps of Motordom" term started around 1905 or 1910. No connection between the 3 companies except some friendly competition, and they all started in the early days of American automobiles. Packard, Peerless, and Pierce began building cars in 1899, 1900, and 1901. Peerless did hire Chief Engineer Charles Schmidt away from Packard about 1906.

 

I don't keep rosters of the Pierces and Packards, I just tried to find out the relative numbers of remaining cars...and trucks(they all made them). There are roughly 2,000 Pierces and about 5,000 Packards. I have a 1928 Mod. 6-80 Roadster Coupe. Since it's a B ) Version in the 6-80/6-81 Line, with the Car serial # starting with a B800,XXX instead of a 350,XXX(what I'm calling the A) Version for the sake of discussion here) -- separating it from the first 11,000 6-80 cars -- that places it in the last 3,500 6-80 cars, but before the 6-81 cars starting with C810,XXX....likeTom's car (C811,977).

Edited November 24, 2016 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest marage95]

Do you service your own car? What is the service schedule for the Continental 248 cubic inches engine and type of oil and lubricants? Did the 1929 Peerless Model 6-81 come with a motometer radiator cap or a regular flat radiator cap? Hae you ever used Marvels Mystery Oil in your engine?

[thegreendragon]

A lot of people use Marvel Mystery oil as an additive  but I have never used it.  I use a good grade of non-detergent diesel engine oil.  30 weight.  Detergent oil can cause problems in an older engine because it breaks the sludge loose and can clog oil lines----it probably would work in a fresh re-built-- clean engine. The transmission and rear end used 600 weight steam cylinder oil. The radiator cap would have been flat with a remote heat gauge on the dash.  I have three Peerless V-8 cars and have restored and serviced them myself for 60 years---great cars!!!!!!  Richard Lichtfeld

[Grimy]

Marvel Mystery Oil: I've used it for 20 years in my side-valve engines to prevent sticky valves--which was a problem for me in two 1925 cars before using MMO.  4 ounces per 10 gallons of gas, MMO in tank before the gasoline.  Not every tank--maybe every second or third tank.

 

See the current, very active thread titled "Detergent Oil" under General Discussion for different opinions.  I use detergent oil in all mine, although I did phase-in detergent on my '25 Pierce 22 years ago as described in that other thread.  No ill effects, BUT you should clean out oil pan, pump & screen on a newly acquired car that hasn't seen much road--no matter whether you use detergent or non-d. 

 

For my pre-war cars I change the oil HOT once a year in the fall irrespective of mileage--or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first.  Lube it at the same time.

[jeff_a]

marage95,

 

No, I haven't, the car is still unrestored. I bought it several years ago in disassembled and incomplete condition, with no functional tires and not running. I have been slowly finding missing parts, and have assembled a complete hood after Ralph Cartonio sent me most of a hood that he got from the Chickasha Swap Meet. Mine was missing 1 of the 4 hood panels when my friend Philippe and I went through piles of parts for two boattail coupes. I gave him the complete hood for my 1928 6-80 Roadster Coupe and he gave me the incomplete one from his 1927 6-60 Roadster Coupe: they interchange. There was no way he could have found the missing part in Europe. The 6-60 & 6-80 had different prices, weights, different wheel, rim & tire sizes, different rear ends, and different engines; but the same 116" wheelbase, hood, and rumble seat step plate. The bodies seem to be the same, probably made by Peerless Body. Mine doesn't have a coachbuilder's tag.

 

In your 2 pics of the '29 Peerless, I noticed what looks like a vacuum tank on the firewall. I thought all the 1929 Peerlesses had fuel pumps, but maybe I'm mistaken. In a previous description of the car I was told it has a Raulang body. Maybe there's a brass tag on the firewall. Raulang is 1 of 42 coachbuilders for Peerless I'm aware of. Tom said the Peerless has a 2-rear-spare setup instead of the usual 1-rear-spare. There are a couple of 6-81s with dual side mounts (Ralph Cartonio had one with d/s/m for sale 6 years ago), but most have a single rear spare mount.

 

thegreendragon is right about the car having a heat gauge on the instrument panel and not needing a motometer by about 1927. About 1927 Peerless offered an accessory radiator mascot for their cars that had an eagle's head. This was a dealer option to replace a flat radiator cap. Very rarely, these come up on ebay, usually needing repair(originals are zinc castings, nickel-plated). Expect to pay $300+ for a perfect original. There are a couple of different sizes of radiator necks for mascots and motometers and their bases, and a person has to watch that, if getting one. Tom was having trouble finding one that fit. My Peerless came with one the seller provided(Boyce Motometer with a base, says "MADE ESPECIALLY FOR THE FORD CAR") that fits(it's about 2 1/8" i.d. where the threads are). I also bought a repro of the eagle radiator mascot. Someone in Irvine, CA sells them, usually on e-bay auction for $50-125. I got one for 49.99....they are not a museum-quality repro, some of the details are off a little, but they appear to be solid bronze and fit the radiator neck. Both of these have female threads. I just checked today to make sure they fit my '28 6-80, but remember, Tom Wallace's is a '29 6-81 and they may differ.

 

Someone in Michigan makes a very nice show quality Peerless eagle mascot. Someone told me they are cast stainless steel and cost $400-600, but I don't know personally. Some nice original Boyce Motometers with "PEERLESS" and the eagle company logo on the front come up at auctions and on ebay occasionally. You could get one if you ever bought a Peerless.

 

Are you seriously considering buying the car, or just looking? Have you seen it in Toledo, or are you far away? If you buy a Peerless Instruction Book on ebay for a 6-81, you'll find a complete maintenance schedule inside with a full-page diagram of the chassis. Expect to pay $25-65 on ebay for one(I got an owners manual for my 6-80 for $8, but the cover was missing and the pages worn). Every once in a while, someone on ebay sells a plastic coated maintenance chart for particular models of later Peerlesses. Once or twice the 6-81 has been covered on these. I checked today and didn't see one for sale. "petemick" -- who uses the Peerless Forum -- got one for his 6-81 Sedan. They have data like:

• "Water Pump, Grease Cups, 6-81: 1 6-61A: 0, water pump lubricant, Turn down 2 turns every 1000 miles."
• "Generator, 20W Motor Oil, Few drops every 1000 miles."  
• "Distributor, Oiler, 20W Motor Oil, Fill Cup every 1000 miles. Also oil wick under rotor ."
• "Fan Hub Bearing, Oiler, 1, SAE 20W Motor Oil, Integral w/ water pump. Few drops every 1000 miles."
• "Serial Nos 6-81 - C812,901 and Up. 61A - C615,451 and Up."                                                                                                                                    

I copied this from an ad for one of these charts...the kind you might nail to the wall of your garage...when FS on ebay: "MODEL - 61A, 6-81, Year - 1930, Lubrication Points Peerless 6". 

 

I've never used Marvel Mystery Oil before.

 

This was a long answer for your 3 lines of questions, but I think Tom has an interesting car. Not the usual barnfind that looks like an escapee from a junkyard!

 

----Jeff

Edited December 10, 2016 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

marage95,

 

A few more comments on Peerless cars. It sounds like you bought the car already; but maybe you are seriously considering it but don't want to get one if no owners manuals are available and you have to guess at service matters. I looked at some manuals I have and if any are FS now on ebay.

 

My Peerless is a late 6-80. There was not a special one for written for it, I guess, but I have one written in late 1925 for the '26-'27 version,  PEERLESS SIX-80 Instructions and Description, 64 pp. It has a 2 pg Lubrication Chart on pg 32 with 34 points to maintain. Some @ 500 miles, some @ 2000 miles. Pg 32 also shows a plain, flat radiator cap on the radiator. Pg 58(illustration of the dashboard) shows both a "RADI-METER" on the left side to show temperature, and the back of one of the Peerless eagle radiator mascots(they don't show temperature).

 

The Peerless Instruction Book for a '25 6-72, printed in very early 1925, doesn't show a heat gauge inside, and you would want a motometer for one of those.

 

The PEERLESS SIX-60 Instructions and Descriptions manual for the '27 Mod. 6-60, printed in late 1926, shows on pg 32(lubrication chart, showing use of heavy oil, light oil, and grease) a Peerless eagle radiator mascot. The illustration on pg 58 there(dash, instruments, etc.) did not show the hood, but does show the RADI-Meter on the l.s. of the dash.

 

What changed in the 1928 6-80(2nd version), versus the 1st version in 1926-27, is that the dash had 1 oval instrument panel housing 6 gauges(ammeter/oil/speedometer/clock/fuel/temperature). The 1st version had a radi-meter on the left, and a central panel in the shape of the 1926-28 radiator shell(l: speedometer, m: 3 eyebrow gauges[ammeter/oil/fuel], r: combination switch). The '29 6-81(3rd version) had the oval 6-gauge panel behind glass, like the '28.

 

On ebay today, I saw 28 different Peerless owner's manuals for sale, but none for a '29 6-81. There's a lot of difference between the 6-80 and the 6-81........just like there is between the 6-60 and 6-80.

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest marage95]

On 11/23/2016 at 3:59 PM, thegreendragon said:

I use a good grade of non-detergent diesel engine oil.  30 weight.  Detergent oil can cause problems in an older engine because it breaks the sludge loose and can clog oil lines

Greendragon, why do you use diesel engine oil? Is it thicker than regular engine oil or a better grade oil? How do you guys think about synthetic oil?

[Guest marage95]

On 11/23/2016 at 4:22 PM, Grimy said:

 

For my pre-war cars I change the oil HOT once a year in the fall irrespective of mileage--or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Grimy, you change your oil once a year or every 1000 miles, is that what is required on prewar vehicles? Do you guys use 100% gas or regular gas with ethanol? 

[Grimy]

Marage95, here in The Pipples' Republik of Caleeforneeya, all we can get is 10% ethanol and a specific blend at that; NV and AZ have the same blend.  But I'd keep the same oil change interval even if I had access to zero-ethanol fuel..

 

I use 15W-40 diesel crossover oil (crossover=API certified for both diesel and gasoline vehicles), specifically Shell Rotella-T because it has more zinc and phosphorus than RPM Delo diesel oil and considerably more of those than gasoline-only oils other than racing and other specialty oils.  Consistently cheapest at Walmart!  I change once a year for two primary reasons: (1) the detergency/anti-oxidation/anti-sludge additives lose their efficiency by time and oxidation through exposure to air as well as by mileage (see below), and (2) the inefficient old side valve engines tend to more crankcase dilution via unburned fuel, especially given antique vehicles' customary usage, than more modern vehicles. 

 

My daily beater is a low-mileage 1995 Mazda pickup with 2.3L 4-cylinder engine; I change its oil HOT at 3.000 miles because it gets a lot of short trips.  I change my tow vehicle's oil (1999 Ford F-350 diesel dually) at 3.000 miles also.

[Guest marage95]

Tom’s Peerless is in great condition and appears to be very complete especially with the 2-rear-spare tire setup. It would make a great show car with little work done to it, not something you would want to drive around too often. I’m not sure if it’s a Raulang body or not, did Raulang make bodies for other car companies? I haven’t purchased the vehicle (yet) but I am considering it. My biggest fear about owning a car with low production is finding parts to complete the restoration vs a Ford or Chevy where there is an abundance of spare parts and reproductions. The previous owner did a great job storing the car. Thanks Jeff for all the data information.

[jeff_a]

Raulang built bodies for: 

1. Biddle-Crane
2. Lexington
3. Gardner
4. Cadillac
5. Duesenberg
6. Peerless
7. Ruxton
8. Franklin
9. Hupmobile
10. Packard
11. Reo
12. Wills-Ste.-Claire
13. Stearns-Knight
14. Stanley

They also built some wooden bodies for Ford Model A Station Wagons, and some bodies for cars they built in-house over the years. Coachbuilt.com covers those pretty well.

Edited December 2, 2016 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Back when it was for sale about 6 years ago someone said it had a "Rawlins" body. Tom sent me a letter in 2013 saying it was a "Raulang" body.  If there was a tag on the firewall, it'd be an oval brass one a couple inches wide reading: "Raulang BODY" (small letters at bottom: "The Baker-Raulang Company Cleveland").

Edited December 2, 2016 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

I just received an email from Anthony Cartonio in Maine that he is buying the car.

[petemick]

I have original copies of the parts list for 6/81 cars if you are interested, also I have uploaded a picture of the radiator mascot from my car.