alsancle Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Were is the L29 Cord market these days? One of the best looking cars parked, how is it to drive one? Dad said the dash shift was tough to master. Imagine what it was like to have the boss's son ask you to drive his L29 cabriolet from NYC to the summer estate in Connecticut when you were 15 years old without a drivers license. Oh, those horrible rich people. Bob Bob, I would have had a L29 20 years ago when they were more reasonable but my dad has a huge 810/812 bias. A never driven one but they do have the reputation for being better looking than driving. A nice coupe will bring 200k, maybe a bit more for a perfect one. The later cars have a slightly bigger engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 L29's are interesting machines. Overall driving them is not much different than lots of other cars, but I will comment they are very tight for most people over five foot eight. I wouldn't own one because of how they are just not comfortable for a person of my size....6'1" and 210. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I'll always remember the L29 Cabriolet that came out of South America with Model T Ford U joints on the front axle. Looked so odd, but for $6,000. it was a deal back then. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) He own a kaiser.. But he is young.. Edited May 15, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 This came home .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis23 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Here is one Cord currently on the auction: http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1937-cord-phaeton-convertible/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 There's a lot of bidding left on that Cord if it's going to sell. It's not perfect, but it has to be worth over $100K for sure.....an unrestored, not running, in pieces phaeton sold for about $60K a couple of years ago at auction.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, trimacar said: There's a lot of bidding left on that Cord if it's going to sell. It's not perfect, but it has to be worth over $100K for sure.....an unrestored, not running, in pieces phaeton sold for about $60K a couple of years ago at auction.... Close. 53k, then the buyer poured a bunch of money into it before selling it back to the original family for 69k. Read about it here: The yellow car in question is a 100k plus car all day long. Edited May 15, 2017 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Well, I feel sorry for the auction buyer, but happy for the family to get it back! And, they surely received more than the increased buy-back price in restoration value!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) Are auction prices a sign of the times with fewer people biding throughout the auction or have more people changed tactic's and waiting until the end. I also notice more larger collections being broken up like this four day auction of a private museum. With the $$$$ being as low as it is the higher end stuff will end up in the US for resale or private collections at bargain prices of over 1/3 off. Click on the bid now and you can see the picture listing http://www.shackeltonauctions.com/the-outstanding-alan-bray-collection-4-day-auction-june-7th-10th-2017/ Edited May 16, 2017 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Joe in Canada said: Are auction prices a sign of the times with fewer people biding throughout the auction or have more people changed tactic's and waiting until the end. I also notice more larger collections being broken up like this four day auction of a private museum. With the $$$$ being as low as it is the higher end stuff will end up in the US for resale or private collections at bargain prices of over 1/3 off. Click on the bid now and you can see the picture listing http://www.shackeltonauctions.com/the-outstanding-alan-bray-collection-4-day-auction-june-7th-10th-2017/ OMG, what a large collection of what looks like very high quality items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I still wonder if any of the forum members have personal experience either buying or selling at an auction, a collector car auction. I have tossed the question out a couple of times. Maybe this is not an auction-typical group. When I was a kid I went to a lot of police auctions and bought. And I used to go the the Atlantic City Swap Meet and Auction. I would always see at least one under priced car that interested me. At that auction one had to enter a relationship with Bank America and I already had a bank. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis23 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 95 000 is the really very good deal for this Cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I used to go to the police auction on occasion, once bought an 86 Fiero with V6 and manual trans for $700. Guess most og my cars have been bought from CraigsLists ads. Of course I usually buy at 6-15 years and then just keep until AACA eligable. (three are now, one will be next year). Remember when the silver-streak crowd felt my GTO was too new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 But who, on the forum, has bought or sold at a genuine collector car auction? What was the experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 There are plenty of guys on here that have done both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 6 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: I still wonder if any of the forum members have personal experience either buying or selling at an auction, a collector car auction. I have worked for an estate for 4 years. The first car to go when I started working there, went to Dragone Classis Cars auction in upscale Westport Ct, it completely shattered the price guides valuation for the condition it was in. Book as I recall? maybe 25 to 30k, it went for 68,200k not including perhaps 10%? buyers commission, and there was 6.25% sales tax added, to leave the grounds. 2nd one failed to meet reserve, a year later. Then the 3rd one failed reserve a year later after, then it went to Owls Head Museum auction in Maine..at "their advice" as no reserve..but it backfired badly, as it went for the opening price of 30k should have gone for 50 k...and I am really conservative in values So, the last two ..., one that failed reserve 2 years ago, and one that never was sent anywhere will go to Dragone for their next auction. These all were 1934-1940 fancy cars. Not common 50s or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Bought a T speedster many years ago at the Tiny Gould close out auction. great deal, I would up parting it out and did very well with it. Watched one of the auctions at Pebble Beach last year, great fun, guessing the sale price before the hammer fell. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Most guys here are probably like me and most other enthusiasts. A few fair cars and a bunch of STUFF and a garage full of not very well organized tools and parts, a back yard full of future projects, etc. (where to start)? My neighbor died a few years ago and the his and hers children didn't get along. I guess the courts finally decided to do an auction. They hired an auctioneer that had several workers. The advertising was pretty good and there was a pretty good sized crowd, maybe a hundred shoppers. They started in the house and the workers would bring out box after box of mostly worthless junk. EVERYTHING sold, then out behind the barn where there were several cars and trucks and parts and scrap buried in the briars and weeds. EVERY item sold (some stuff at less than scrap price to the scrappers. Then the side yard, better junk cars and a pile of fire wood and some shinier parts. EVERYTHING sold. Even the sprinklers and yard tools. Then into the barn/shop, box after box, item after item want across the block. EVERYTHING sold. In an afternoon the junky place was absolutely empty. All those piles of stuff (we all have em) that had not been touched in years was gone. As for the money? I suspect that the auctioneer doesn't work for free, but in my opinion he turned a scrap pile into gold, and some gold is probably worth more than a lot of STUFF. I suspect that the auctioneer and the probate guys had some work getting ready but in a short afternoon the place was empty. This was my first and only experience like this and an eye opener for me. So if and when I get where I need this kind of service I will bite the bullet and let someone that knows how to liquidate STUFF do his job and grab what gold might be available. I just hope I am not dead when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Bob bought a car at a Tiny Gould auction, for himself and parted it out. That would be a real collector car auction, not a piles of the estate auction. I see one so far. How about the forum member who can write "I sold my car" or "I bought a nice car for myself" and this is the story. Anecdotal third party stories already exist. How about right from the horse's mouth? Anyone? How about some forum buyers who have used that Big auction at fall Hershey? Who buys and who sells, at these specific events, is really in line with "Where is our hobby market headed." Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: Bob bought a car at a Tiny Gould auction, for himself and parted it out. That would be a real collector car auction, not a piles of the estate auction. I see one so far. If you are referring to my post...? Man up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 No, Jack mentioned the estate piles. Your example was a job you "worked" on. That is different from your own stuff. A professional collector car auction is very different from piles of clutter and accumulations, especially things sold to settle an estate. Although some collector car auctions do dispose of estates, there is generally a whole different marketing approach. What's the hard part? The Hershey auction, Scottsdale, Auburn,these highly promoted, advertised, and, sometimes, broadcast auctions of the type seen on TV. Who has, personally gone to an auction specific to the old car hobby, selling only cars of collector status,of the type insured by a collector car specialty insurance company, AND either bought or sold a car with their own money, titled from them or to them as a result of the auction? We have one, a speedster that was parted out. Hobbyist and non-hobbyists refer to auction frequently, results are some of the basis of price guides. And if a specific car isn't actually sold the value gets interpolated. But who is doing the deal? Anyone of us? Like Bob, I bought one. I am just waiting to tell the story. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Frank, that Lasalle that sold at Dragone was a very cool car. Were the other 2 convertible coupes too? I think a half decent 34 Lasalle conv coupe is worth 50k plus all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 20 minutes ago, alsancle said: Frank, that Lasalle that sold at Dragone was a very cool car. Were the other 2 convertible coupes too? I think a half decent 34 Lasalle conv coupe is worth 50k plus all day long. I think the 34's would shock you as far as prices go. At least one sold privately not too long ago for huge money. I think they are rarer than many people realize. I like them, but I wouldn't fork out what they bring. Quality, fit, and finish were not to my liking. Only way to have a nice one is to over restore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Bernie, I guess I misunderstood your query. The dealership that I part time for does buy and sell cars auctions. The small ones at the fairgrounds don't bring any money and is a bunch of work with very little return. We took several cars to the Mecum auction last year at the Portland Expo Center. It was a big glitzy televised deal. We sold a few and bought a few. My opinion is that the dealers are dumping their junk and buying someone else's junk. Maybe slow inventory would be a better description. The private buyers that I know that do auctions are way to rich and are the ones that make the stories about how expensive everything is these days. A few of those buyers were at Mecum last year and some money was spent, they just didn't bite on any high end stuff we had. My take on this whole deal is that the auction makes a lot of money, puts on a flashy show, sells a lot of alcohol and the consigners and buyers premiums make it very profitable. Figure each car thru already has paid a couple of hundred just to be there (more if there is a reserve), (around 600 cars last year) then if a buyer wins he adds 10% to his high bid. The seller also pays a percentage (I forget how much that one is) A fun show to watch but I would think stressful and probably impossible to make a living at from the investor side. However, the boss is putting together a Mecum list again this year. A glutton for punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Dragone for their next auction. everyone should google that name before listing............... some interesting stuff took place in the courts a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midman Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 As most of you have already mentioned, the market is changing. The market will always be changing, and depending on your point of view, for better or worse. I'm still waiting for prewar cars, other than common stuff, and with intact wood and mechanicals, and not sedans, to be had for 10k or less. My guess is I will be waiting a long time, so in the interim I buy what I like and can afford regardless of where "the market" is going. Some I buy direct from the owner, some I've bought at vehicle auctions, if I believe they are a good deal for me. Sometimes they are and sometimes they are not good deals. Has nothing to do with the selling venue if I do my homework. For me I was always interested in cars and motorcycles, and before I got married I cobbled together anything with wheels I could afford, but once I was married and my family and career started to grow all of it went by the wayside for 20 years. When the kids were grown and I started to have a little money to play with the wheels started coming back into my life. I started where I left off, 60's and 70's stuff, but then I slowly became interested in early cars and bikes. Who knows what the future will be like in the collector car world or the world in general, but one thing is certain.....it will change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I just notice that car prices seem totally out of sight to me, but I go back to when $1200 for a nice 1939 Buick convertible was out of sight for me. I've gone up with the times and now $24,000 for a nice 1953 Mercury Monterey hardtop seems out of sight to me. That's how times have changed for me. One thing I do know is if you build a national prize winner you can expect to lose your shirt. I lost $25,000 on one, straight up....$75K in, $50K back. But, that had been a lifelong ambition to do, I did it, and so I guess I had to pay for the thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 I am waiting not for the market to change but back to a more even dollar exchange. 38% on top of the sale price kind of hurts when you are talking the price of a brass car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Bottom line: today there are more interesting choices than ever before and HP is back, even absurd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 4 hours ago, midman said: I buy what I like and can afford regardless of where "the market" is going. You are on the right mindset in my opinion. Lets go for a ride in your car My new purchase...two friends have already said: "You finish it and you could buy a really nice new ca"r. I got bitchy and said, I never would use "very nice" and "new car" in any sentence together. the other said "good to cash in for a nest egg". WTH, what happened to the buying a prewar to enjoy. People are ah's ...it's all about stupid increasingly-worthess money " paper certificates", I could give a toot about money, if I can keep a roof over me and my cars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 On 5/17/2017 at 8:13 PM, alsancle said: Frank, that Lasalle that sold at Dragone was a very cool car. Were the other 2 convertible coupes too? I think a half decent 34 Lasalle conv coupe is worth 50k plus all day long. Sorry I missed this till now without a 'quote tag" 3 survivors were that conv, went 68.200 plus buyer fee and CT tax. Silver coupe failed reserve 2 years ago (don't know that number):, it's now heading back "there" I am told, as well as the most untouched one, a black sedan. I consider as restore candidates,,,not quite good enough to fix the obvious cosmetic spots without having stuff then stick way out of place. Tough call on values, but two bidders sure liked the convertible one it seems On 5/17/2017 at 8:37 PM, edinmass said: Quality, fit, and finish were not to my liking We keep ending up on opposite pages. That is not what I saw at all, even looking through the environmental damage they all suffered since long storage.. I saw a really great car in those times, especially as the new 34 was supposed to be a hard core price chopper to save the Cad division losses . I am totally impressed looking at all the LaS pieces "apart", big and small. Fully chromed column, chromed solid bronze W/S framing, all bumper shock tubes, all chromed, all 34 only. All nicely done by GM, IMO. I sure regret not taking many more detail pics....like looking at that embossed door panel décor.of different length lines..dang, nothing cheezy there. Yes, wrong radio w/enlarged hole in center, twin heaters, but kinda adds interest to a unique type of survivor bidder. (the world is changing) I'd bet it was a conservation buy, not a resto purchase. This car "had something" ...> in person<... I think that's why it went high, on site. Way better that some ugly full classics...when I compare Factory sales prices vs the showy trinkets and details only the 34 has. Take one apart, you will see for yourself ...or if you want to put one together...I need a hand..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 12 hours ago, F&J said: We keep ending up on opposite pages. That is not what I saw at all, even looking through the environmental damage they all suffered since long storage.. I saw a really great car in those times, especially as the new 34 was supposed to be a hard core price chopper to save the Cad division losses . Ed is a build quality elitist because of Pierce Arrow which had the greatest build quality of any American manufacturer but not the greatest style. He comes around eventually on style. Also, he's the only guy I know that can look at the hinges or door handles from 40 feet away on any Classic and tell you the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, alsancle said: had the greatest build quality of any American manufacturer but not the greatest style Interesting.... I just can't get used to the fender headlights, even though I saw a special model, Mass built car that used them one year only in 1914...and they looked awesome on it! A rare Metz speedster, factory built. Also interesting that perhaps WE are on the same page, as I fell for the 34 LaS by accident, surely not for the overall fat fender look. It's appreciation started with me getting the convertible to run, then yard drive...wow. No, it started on the 1 hour tow home on open trailer.. My son was subcontracted for all towings. He kept telling me to look at the car behavior as we crossed bumps and dips...he said "LOOK at that dang car...it is just staying so stable and not jerking the trailer like so many cars/trucks he's hauled for years. The interest still keeps growing as I look at each tiny or large piece. I have no experience with moderate to mega buck cars, so this is a pinnacle in my own life's experiences. I cannot take someone's J Dues apart at the show field at Hershey.. I saw something late yesterday as another cool thing, but I forgot right now....I'm busy.. again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) Some years look better than others with the fender lights. Ed can give more detail but Pierce was using ball bearings for the spring shackle mounts instead of bushings, just to give you an idea. The problem I have is that while American styling was hitting is high water mark (in my opinion) between 32 and 36 Pierce was turning out some awkward visuals. Not all of them, as there are some really good looking ones, but many. That said, I would love to have a PA some day. I had a shot at this one and should have bought it but Ed didn't push hard enough. Edited May 21, 2017 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Dual heaters in that LAsalle. They must have lived top down motoring in all seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) F&J - I like the style of the 34 LaSalle, it's a sharpcar. But......in order to cut costs GM basically combined the devision with Olds as far as the platform went. It's not fair to compare it to the few companies still making the multi cylinder monsters. It was a great car for the value, above average in style and design. As my passion has always been the large monsters, overall the 34 LaSalle is probably a better driving and handeling car than the Caddy 16 and the Packard 12. For my taste.......which is NOT typical....... it's rather small. I know, I'm a car snob. If it's not an oversized monster it just doesn't float by boat. Edited May 21, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, edinmass said: it's a sharpcar. But......in order to cut costs GM basically combined the devision with Olds as far as the platform went The Olds motor behavior is what impressed me, right from the start. I would likely not be in love with the 33 LaS flathead V8. I am not really keen of any V-type flathead. Ford ran the exhaust from the top of heads all the way though the block, to the ports. Heating so much more water as it went. Cad tried running exhaust upwards to lessen the exhaust flowing through water areas. I surely never have been near a Cad flathead, but I read some things (true or not), that made me think the carbs were fussy and whatnot... I like simple, and simple to fix, maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) The Caddy flat heads are definitely a challenge, and the carburation pre 1932 is terrible on the eights. What town are you in? Edited May 22, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Maybe we should try to meet at the Klingberg event June 17? Bob http://klingbergautoshow.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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