incorporation of HPOF cars into judging area

[gruberv8]

I'm sure this has been discussed multiple times, but as a frequent HPOF participant I get asked at Hershey by spectators why the HPOF cars are not mixed with like cars on the show field.  I didn't have an answer for the person so I thought I would post it there.  I have a model T pickup, and this year I was parked next to my friends 1923 international which looked neat.  Normally I'm parked next to a 1970's car which looks like of strange.  I think grouping at least era cars or trucks together would make for good viewing.  This is fast growing segment as it gets entry people into the hobby, plus the public likes it. 

 

The departure after the show this year was the best it's been since the show was moved to grass.  I'd like to see the classes in the back get to leave first every once and a while.  There are T's and brass cars in HPOF Too!  Trailer parking was not optimum.  Can't Hershey Co open their employee lot for trailers or put them on the former white field on show day?  Parking in a grass field when it's raining is a pain, especially getting up the ramps.  If you were lucky enough to be parked on the road you were in good shape. 

[AnniesSS]

I know I've read this before and although it would be nice to be parked with other similar vehicles, all cars are parked with their class.  So we couldn't park HPOF with other vehicles that have been restored.  It would be too difficult for the Judges to evaluate the HPOF vehicles if they are all over the show field - especially at Hershey where there are over 1,200 vehicles!

 

It would be most excellent to have all HPOF vehicles parked in their decade together, but again, at Hershey where there are over 200 HPOF, it would be very hard to designate parking for every vehicle. One year I was parked next to a 20's-30's Rolls Royce, the next an 80's Chevette.  I think it's very neat the variety of vehicles that I'm classed with considering there are over 100 years worth of cars and trucks and motorcycles that I could be parked near.

[MCHinson]

I agree that it would be better if there were a way to group the HPOF cars in a more logical manner. At smaller meets, the HPOF cars are generally assigned a parking space in chronological order. I really like that better than the haphazard parking of HPOF at Hershey. While it might be quite a bit more trouble for the HPOF participants and the parking team, I don't quite understand why Hershey could not assign spaces to the HPOF cars. Maybe I am being unreasonable but I sure would like to see it tried once. I would really love to see the HPOF cars parked adjacent to the cars in the class that they would be in if they were in Class Judging instead of HPOF. I realize that this would make it much harder on the Judges of the HPOF team so maybe it is not practical. Two of my current cars are HPOF cars and one is in DPC. The only thing that I don't like about HPOF and DPC is the random appearance of those classes on the showfield. 

 

[MattDoscher]

I personally don't see an issue w/ the grouping of HPOF vehicles.  It's the same over in DPC, they are mixed there as well.  That's just how it is.  I didn't mind being in between 2 very early cars compared to my '91 at Hershey.

 

Matt

Edited October 19, 2016 by MattDoscher (see edit history)

[trimacar]

It's an interesting topic, but I can tell you from experience with another club that am lot of people who have restored high dollar cars (high dollar as in restoration costs), really don't appreciate being parked next to an original car.  Thus, you'll get little to no support for parking original cars in the show field next to restored cars, although I personally think that's how it should be.  What could be more educational than having an original car sitting next to it's restored twin?

 

For decades, bicycle and motorcycle enthusiasts have treasured originality.  Find a nice 19-0ught or teen-something unrestored Flying Merkel motorcycle, then put a bunch of money into restoring it....and you have a motorcycle worth much less than if you'd left it original.

 

Old car guys came to this realization too late.  Heck, I'm to blame too, in the late 1970's I restored a 1934 Pierce 840A sedan, which now would win awards for originality if I HAD NOT restored it!  It was an excellent, low mileage, Oklahoma dry car, but the rage in the 70's-90's was restore, don't preserve.

 

I went to the ACD meet in Auburn about 5 years ago, first time I'd been, and took my unrestored '37 Cord phaeton, which had a bad paint job in the 1960's, but runs and drives great.  Not knowing any better, I just registered it as a regular car to show, thus I was on the show field with the restored cars, not in the back with "original" cars.  Many people enjoyed seeing it, but there were some Cord owners who were not happy with me for having it in the same area as their high dollar car, and they told me so.....it was interesting, too, that my car had a lot of people looking at it, and passing by restored cars to get to it....

[61polara]

Hershey is such a large show that there are exceptions made, but at all other National AACA shows, DPC and HPOF cars should be on the show field from oldest to newest.  The Chief Judge of the Show can make exceptions to this, so there may be a few other shows where DPC and HPOF cars are in a different order.

[tomcarnut]

A couple years ago I showed my 1984 Tioga Class C Motor home at Hershey somewhat as a joke dressing up as "Cousin Eddie" with sewer hose and all. Was next to nice 70's Lincoln limo owned by an AACA director. He was great, laughing at my outfit. As it was raining early in the morning, it was nice just sitting in the RV looking at the cars come in. The motorhome was purchased from the original owner who used it to vend at Hershey and I do the same. In fact I have pictures of it at Hershey swap meet in the 1980's. The next year I went for the HPOF original at Auburn and was next to very nice original 20's Buick. The owner was not pleased being next to an old motor home I overheard. I am fine with the current system parking randomly. I would think it would be a lot less hassle for hosting clubs that keep in mind are volunteers. They would have to have put more time and effort planning for parking in this class and which would spill over to DPC requests for the same. I use the Motorhome to tow my brass cars and will probably bring one to Auburn next year. May show the Motorhome again too as it is nice to have a dry place to hang if the weather turns.

[Phillip Cole]

If you have ever manually assigned HPOF and DPC spaces at a smaller show, which I have, you might understand. It is very time consuming. And then, you have to reorient your parking teams.

If the Hershey folks decided to do it, I think it would be great. But let's recognize how much work it is for a group of volunteers.

 

[Grimy]

I don't think it's so difficult if you use a simple spreadsheet in which one of the columns is Model Year.  After the entry period is closed, do a "sort" by Model Year and you'll have them in year model sequence. Then assign "class entry numbers" which are then put onto paper plates affixed to the parking positions.

 

We did this for years at the old Silverado Concours in California.  And at the Pierce-Arrow Centennial Meet at Buffalo (of course!) in 2001, three of us arranged all 200 Pierce vehicles in chronological order in concentric rings around the McKinley memorial obelisk--PARKING them in those concentric rings was difficult, but organizing each vehicle's position was not..

[Larry Schramm]

I would personally vote that all cars be placed in chronological order. Restored, HPOF, and modified when applicable.

 

This is a great way for visitors to see the difference between the progression of years in technology, styling, comfort, and how the industry evolved.

 

This is the way the Buick national meet was placed in Allentown this year and it was great.

 

Chronological order is how The Henry Ford/ Greenfield Village car shows lay out the Motor Muster and Old Car Festival and I consider them the best shows in the country.  They have been doing this since the early 50' so they have a lot of experience.  The shows are so popular that they limit them to 1,000 entrants for each show.

[Mark Shaw]

I agree with Grimy:  It actually simplifies parking arrangements by parking all participants chronologically with color coded stickers for different classes.

 

I could never understand why someone with a restored car would object to being parked next to a the same or similar un-restored car; unless the restored car owner did not restore his or her car to original condition. 

 

I think a modified car owner would appreciate being parked next to an un-restored car so others could more easily see modified differences.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

There is one main reason why the discussion of mixing class judging cars with HPOF and DPC cars has not happened universally. That has to do with the overwhelming job our judges have to do.  HPOF and DPC evaluators are a special team and since those classes have grown it takes them a long time to finish their job on Saturday.  Walking the entire field to find their assigned cars would make this issue even worse.  The idea sounds simple enough and should be easy to do but unless you figuratively walk a mile in the shoes of our judging teams it is hard to understand.

 

We have at some meets been able to park cars in HPOF and DPC chronologically.  It is an idea that has ben supported by the club but not always are we able to pull this off.  The size of Hershey exacerbates the issues.  The team that lays out the field for the Hershey Region also is at the show field as early as 5 AM on show day has a BIG job. What may sound simple to us is not so simple for them and is a traffic control issue as well.

 

All I can say to you at this point is that the ideas in this thread continue to be discussed by AACA and many of us would like to see some of them adopted. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 10/18/2016 at 3:17 PM, gruberv8 said:

...as a frequent HPOF participant...  I have a model T pickup, and this year I was parked next to my friends 1923 international which looked neat.  Normally I'm parked next to a 1970's car which looks like of strange....  

 

I think that within HPOF and within DPC,

the cars could at least be grouped by half-decade.

For example, keep all the 1950-55 HPOF cars together.

It doesn't make sense--especially at the big Hershey show--

to have a totally random layout of HPOF and DPC, with

a 1923 Willys next to a 1978 Oldsmobile diesel, next to a

1955 Ford Truck.  That would be no harder than organizing

the judged classes chronologically.  

 

Good organization and follow-through should be the standard

at EVERY national meet.  We already do a lot right.

As the nation's leading car club, we should be setting

new and better standards in everything we do!

 

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[jscheib]

Just a quick comment on Larry's post 10 above. I agree the Allentown event was wonderful with "Era Parking", but we should mention this was not a "Class Judged" event, so it makes a world of difference.

 

John