ArgyleEarwax Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Well, it looks like my "Dodgy 49" will be coming home this week. I have been told I'm nuts for even attempting this, but the victory never goes to the ones on the sidelines. My plan is to get it running and driving first,(no small feat) then see what happens from there. My two boys (11,15) are pretty excited about it as well I hope they can learn something along the way. I'll try to update as milestones are reached. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Agree, clean it up some and get it running. That will keep your sons (and you) much more interested in it versus tearing it all apart and then looking at the huge task of restoring it. Once it's running and safely driving (including full restore of the brake system), you can work on cosmetics. I've always liked these MoPars - well engineered, simple, and parts are pretty available. Lots of room for hauling the family . What transmission does it have? From the one pedal it looks like one of the versions of 'Fluid Drive'. Looking forward to updates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Yeah a couple of my buddies are from the buy-it, strip-it, tag-it,bag-it, sand-it, paint -it, rebuilt-it, community. Not that there is anything wrong with that but, my ADHD won't allow that. It has three pedals one is flat to the floor. So I think it has the gyro-matic (?) Edited October 18, 2016 by ArgyleEarwax (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalef62 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 That looks like the brake pedal that is flat to the floor. Probably the standard 3 speed manual. Looks like a nice project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) I think Dale is right. Mostly! Bet that Tee handle on the end of the cable hanging down indicates "Overdrive" on it. Ben Edited October 20, 2016 by First Born (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I'm pretty sure that is a overdrive cable that has been pulled out too far and is now hanging near the floor on the left side of the steering column. I don't know what Chrysler was using for kick down switches at this time, but there is some sort of electrical switch mounted to the air cleaner brace. I just can't tell from the angle whether it's attached in any way to the throttle linkage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I can hardly wait to see the car at home and all cleaned up. Cleaning will be a big project in itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 Well like all best laid plans, life got in the way again. I almost attempted to trailer her home but the planets failed to align. I'm going to wait until next weekend to get it. I only had a few hours and there were to many variables. Im looking for a set of rims and tires to move it around with. With the 4.25 bolt pattern it's been a little tough. There are several sites that have cross reference data but I havent found a match at the local level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 1 hour ago, ArgyleEarwax said: Im looking for a set of rims and tires to move it around with. With the 4.25 bolt pattern it's been a little tough. There are several sites that have cross reference data but I havent found a match at the local level. That car should be 4-1/2" bolt pattern I believe. If so, Ford and Mopar cars 60-70s and some later ones The only vintage car I know of with 4-1/4" was the 33-36 Chevy smaller model like their Standard or Mercury. Yes, Chevy used the Mercury name before Ford did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacerman Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 If the wheels have a 5 on 41/2 inch bolt pattern, AMC passenger car wheels will fit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Yergin Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Your Dodge may have a locating pin on the drum that fits in a hole on the original wheels. The Ford and AMC wheels may not have those holes. Just something to check. Jim Yergin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Only for "new" cars http://www.wheelsupport.com/list-of-bolt-pattern-4-x-114-3/ http://www.wheelsupport.com/bolt-pattern-list-5-x-114-3/ 114.3mm = 4.5 inches Edit more http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/boltpat.html http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-rat-rods/Wheel-Bolt-Pattern-Cross-Reference-Database.asp Edited October 22, 2016 by 1939_Buick (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 On 10/20/2016 at 7:42 AM, ArgyleEarwax said: Well like all best laid plans, life got in the way again. I almost attempted to trailer her home but the planets failed to align. I'm going to wait until next weekend to get it. I only had a few hours and there were to many variables. Im looking for a set of rims and tires to move it around with. With the 4.25 bolt pattern it's been a little tough. There are several sites that have cross reference data but I havent found a match at the local level. just a question, what is wrong with the wheels i see on the car. tires ,another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, GARY F said: just a question, what is wrong with the wheels i see on the car. tires ,another story. I was wondering that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, keiser31 said: I was wondering that, too. See post number 8. Wheels to move it around on while restoring the originals? The Hollander 1952 gives many wheel cross-overs. Most are nearer your original size of 5" wide rims as opposed to the modern wider ones. They would fit under the front and allow you to turn it. Wider rims might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Sorry folks I was off grid this weekend. Gary to answer your question, nothing is wrong with the original rims. I'm sure I can put tires on then without any trouble. I am (in my mind) thinking fewest number of trips to where the car is now to where it will be. Coordination with the present owner is a bit of an ordeal so rather than a trip to jack the car up, remove the wheels, leave, have new tires monuted, return to install them, then load the car and go. I was wanting to just swap and load and be done. Not exactly cost effective but potentially more convenient. By the way thanks to you all for the feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 One potential advantage of going to get the wheels that are on the car now (to put tires on them) is that you will know for sure whether all 4 wheels turn easily. Sometimes when a car sits a long time (which may or may not be the case with this Dodge) the brake shoes will lock up hard against the drums. A couple of wheels that don't turn makes the loading much harder. If you do find that one or more wheels are not turning, you can make plans to deal with that -- bringing the proper tools, etc. I believe that this era MoPar vehicles had tapered rear hubs, so it takes a special puller to get the rear drums off, for example. But I do understand coordination issues with the owner........been there, done that. How will you be transporting the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) R1, I guess I hadent thought that far ahead, you make a very good point. I am planning on using a car trailer with a winch to transport it. I am wanting to just get it out of where it is and in the garage, I really don't have the option/desire to work on it where it is. I was planning on getting some dollies to move it around the shop, I might get them sooner and use them to get it on and off the trailer. Edited October 24, 2016 by ArgyleEarwax (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 On 10/20/2016 at 4:42 AM, ArgyleEarwax said: Well like all best laid plans, life got in the way again. I almost attempted to trailer her home but the planets failed to align. I'm going to wait until next weekend to get it. I only had a few hours and there were to many variables. Im looking for a set of rims and tires to move it around with. With the 4.25 bolt pattern it's been a little tough. There are several sites that have cross reference data but I havent found a match at the local level. Try here for wheels....http://www.wildcatmopars.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Hello again, With much wailing and gnashing of teeth, she is home, sadly after a closer look number 5&6 plug have been out for a long time. I have taken all the plugs out and marvel oil in each. I can't get the trunk open(skin has separated) but feel like Howard Carter peeking in the trunk after taking the seat backs out. There is a majority of the chrome, a spare tire, (to which three of the original four aired up) and a Fulton sun visor with hardware? Which I was going to look for one day anyway. I can't seem to post pictures.. Have an excellent Thanksgiving. Edited November 16, 2016 by ArgyleEarwax (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 If it is a Coronet, it is Gyromatic or a semi auto trans. If it is a Meadowbrook it is Fluid Drive, that is a standard 3 speed with a fluid coupling. The handle with the cable that is pulled out to far is the hood release. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Sorry it's been so long for an update but... so after pulling the head and finding #5 at BDC and full of ick the engine debate started. Find another 230, find a v8, same manufacturer, so off script. Well while crusing Craigslist. I find a 50 wayfarer that is about to do a chassis swap. Selling the drivetrain and chassis. So I will be swapping out the anchor for a running known good engine and transmission. The rear end will make the jump as well, brake cylinder and stuff will likely make the jump as well. Too bad the wayfarer is 7 inches shorter. (Yes I have considered frame lengthening) I was finally able to get into the trunk. Lots of chrome, a Fulton sun visor(score) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) So with all that being said, the new trans is a three speed. Does anyone know if that will cause a problem with the fluidrive linkages and crossmember that is there now. I'm fine with a std, just not familiar with the killer little details. Will the column shift work? (Can't be that lucky) Thanks in advance for all your insights. I do appreciate it Edited December 31, 2016 by ArgyleEarwax Language (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Fluid drive is the clutch - a sort of torque converter. So your car is a Meadowbrook? Thus standard 3-speed transmission? The fluid drive might require a longer bell housing? Anyway, a few moments with a tape measure will show the answer to your question. The drive shafts might not be interchangeable between the two cars. Edited January 1, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 Sorry it's been so long for an update but... so after pulling the head and finding #5 at BDC and full of ick the engine debate started. Find another 230, find a v8, same manufacturer, so off script. Well while crusing Craigslist. I find a 50 wayfarer that is about to do a chassis swap. Selling the drivetrain and chassis. So I will be swapping out the anchor for a running known good engine and transmission. The rear end will make the jump as well, brake cylinder and stuff will likely make the jump as well. Too bad the wayfarer is 7 inches shorter. (Yes I have considered frame lengthening) I was finally able to get into the trunk. Lots of chrome, a Fulton sun visor(score) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 AND....a free tire chock (brick). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 SpinneyHill< I have a Coronet, the transmission appears to have two solenoids on the passenger side. Still learning. I am more familiar with Chevy products as I once raced most of the "W" body cars. I figure a bolt comes out and goes back in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 12/3/2016 at 0:53 PM, Paul S said: If it is a Coronet, it is Gyromatic or a semi auto trans. So I understand the Gyromatic is a 3-speed box with overdrive, and first gear blocked. So you start in 2nd, lift off and it goes into 2nd overdrive, change into 3rd, lift off into 3rd o/d. With fluid drive you don't need to use the clutch to change into 3rd. The two solenoids you mention: one is the o/d solenoid that provides for down-changes on kick-down, the other is the governor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 Ok, So now I'm wondering the better approach. I have a standard three speed coming. However the car now has the Gyromatic. Based on nothing at all, do you think the new engine will mate to the Gyromatic (it should) or should I just keep the new engine and three speed together and have a standard shift car. The steering column doesn't seem to support the three speed pattern ( gyro shift patern).. any idea how finicky the Gyromatic was/is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) I can't help you with your questions, but I may be able to provide a little information. It seems the "Gyromatic" was pretty similar to the "Vacamatic" of earlier years. Chrysler1941-Transmission-MoToR.pdf Why don't you see what condition the parts are in before you decide what to do? Changing it around is a lot of work to make a non-original car that may not be very saleable when the time comes. Edited January 8, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 On 1/7/2017 at 2:23 PM, Spinneyhill said: So I understand the Gyromatic is a 3-speed box with overdrive, and first gear blocked. So you start in 2nd, lift off and it goes into 2nd overdrive, change into 3rd, lift off into 3rd o/d. With fluid drive you don't need to use the clutch to change into 3rd. The two solenoids you mention: one is the o/d solenoid that provides for down-changes on kick-down, the other is the governor. No, actually the Gyromatic is a 2 speed trans with a high and low range. You can start in low 1st clutch to move selector to high 1st than get off the throttle to let it shift to high 2nd. Or let it shift from low 1st to low 2nd than clutch to move to high 2nd. you can also leave it in high range and never use the clutch after you put it in gear. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I am confused as to how that would work Paul. Can you tell us how it was set up mechanically please? In my thinking, the three speed with first blocked becomes a 2 speed. The OD acts as high and low range. In your description, it seems to me the OD is acting as 1st and 2nd and the gearbox as high and low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I would say that there really is no OD. it is a hydraulically operated 2 speed "semi auto" { you must take your foot off the throttle for it to upshift} with a manually selected hi low range. It has a fluid coupling therefore you can come to a stop without using the clutch and the trans should down shift. The clutch is only for selecting low, hi range and reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowriv Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I had the four speed Fluid Drive version of this in my '47 Windsor Highlander Coupe. Lovely car spolied by the gearbox, it didn't always change down as you came to a stop either. To my mind it lacked the control of a manual without the convenience of an automatic. It made the car ponderous and slow. I had a 48 Cadillac 60 Special at the same time with the 4 speed Hydramatic and there was no comparison, the Hydramatic was far superior. If the Chrysler had been a manual I would have kept it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, Yellowriv said: I had the four speed Fluid Drive version of this in my '47 Windsor Highlander Coupe. Lovely car spolied by the gearbox, it didn't always change down as you came to a stop either. To my mind it lacked the control of a manual without the convenience of an automatic. It made the car ponderous and slow. I had a 48 Cadillac 60 Special at the same time with the 4 speed Hydramatic and there was no comparison, the Hydramatic was far superior. If the Chrysler had been a manual I would have kept it. John I will agree, they do not like to downshift like they are supposed to. I usually push the clutch in when I come to a stop. Seems like that makes it down shift quicker and smoother. Yes the are 4 speeds but you can only ever use 3 of the gears, If you let it upshift in low range from 1 to 2 and than move the selector to hi range you will be in 4th. if you pull out in 1st, low, move the selector to hi, you will be in 3rd, than work the throttle to upshift to 4th. That is the fastest way to pull out with these cars. Edited January 13, 2017 by Paul S (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 With a controllable downshift button the Gyromatic- Prestomatic -Hydraulically Operated- Tiptoe shift M5/M6 4 speed transmissions are fun to drive and are controled by you not the transmission governor. You can shift it just like a 4 speed. All my cars have a down shift switch on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) The gear changing moves you all suggest is exactly how the Warner overdrive transmission works, with no first gear in the gear box. So what would be 2nd becomes "low", and "3rd" becomes "hi". The OD is a centrifugal unit that changes with solenoid and ignition interrupter when you lift off. There is a governor to provide a downchange when the speed is too low for OD. So you could have low-low (1st), low-high (2nd, i.e. in OD), hi-low (3rd, no OD), hi-hi (4th, in OD). Here is a bit more information: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/m6.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presto-Matic I am guessing c49r's "controllable downshift button" is just a single make & break switch in place of (or as well as) the kickdown switch under the throttle? I ran one of those for a while until I found the correct kickdown switch and mount. Edited January 14, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) The switch I use is a door pillar ground out switch mounted down on the trans side shift cover. I still can use the throttle KD too but I don't like to floor the car unnecessarily. Pull back on the shift lever and the trans will stay in low range or kick down into low. No OD in a M5 or M6 1946-53 MoPar transmission. Edited June 12, 2017 by c49er (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Good evening folks, it's been a slow grind but I finally fired the "new" 230 today. Turns out I had knocked off a plug wire which made it run rough. There is a fuel delivery problem but progress is progress. IMG_6702.MOV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgyleEarwax Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Hey, a quick question (I hope) will using the "air horn vent tube" allow me to fill the bowl of the Strindberg carb? I want to get it to run enough to see if the fuel pump is working or not. There is fuel in the pump bowl but not in the carb. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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