Recommendations wanted for 1st gen steering/suspension parts

[KongaMan]

I'm planning to completely refurb the front end on a '64 (new ball joints, upper and lower control arm bushings, stabilizer links, tie rod ends, bumpers, etc. as required).  I've found that several vendors (CARS, PST, Kanter, etc.) have complete front end kits and/or individual steering/suspension parts.  Unfortunately, I've heard mixed reports on some of these outfits, both with respect to the parts themselves (e.g. they're poorly made and/or don't fit) and the customer service from the company.

 

The last thing I want is to shell out a bunch of money only to find that I didn't get what I needed and the vendor doesn't care. So...

 

Does anyone have a recommendation -- or a warning -- about the parts or service from any particular company?

 

Thanks.

[Rivdrivn]

None are perfect, however, I generally prefer CARS for my parts. But I haven't needed front end stuff yet.

[RivNut]

Chances are the companies that you named are just distributors.  Try going directly to the manufacturers Web site and ordering directly after a live chat with a rep.

 

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/products/buick_riviera_1964

 

Here's a link I found to the Moog site.  Compare prices and go from there.

 

Ed

Edited October 7, 2016 by RivNut
effing predictive text (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

While it's certainly unlikely that any of these guys make their own parts, they still need to have the wherewithal to supply the correct pieces and stand behind what they sell.  The problem with going directly to the manufacturers is that you don't always know who they are.  For example, Moog makes a few parts for the first gen Riv, but they don't make everything that CARS sells.  Which raises the question: who makes the upper ball joint, control arm bushings, bumpers, tie rods, reaction rod bushings, etc.?

 

Rare Parts makes some of these items (upper ball joint, upper and lower control arm bushings, reaction rod bushings, tie rods, etc.).  Is that what CARS et al are selling?  If it is, the prices from CARS are much better than going direct to Rare Parts.

 

FYI, the link you provided does not go to Moog; MoogSuspensionParts.com is a distributor (and higher priced than Amazon, eBay, etc.; I just went through this with a different vehicle).  The link to Moog (Federal Mogul) is here.

[RivNut]

Thanks for the clarification on the distributorship.  That's what I get for trying to look things up on my tablet rather than the desktop.  The tablet that I have is a weird little bugger.  Sometimes it's right on, other times it's like a two year old.  Lesson for today.  Don't try to look things up with a cup of coffee beside the lounge chair; get off my lazy butt and do it right.

 

Ed

[60FlatTop]

 I am in favor of, first, supporting businesses that are geared to support the hobby. However, their purchasing power is limited. Putting together a package or kit can override the quality of the components.

 

I purchased a front end rebuild  kit for a '62 Electra I had. All the pieces came in individual unmarked brown cardboard boxes. The castellated nuts for the ball joints were so poorly made they slid over the threads. Luckily, I was able to use the old nuts. I used the kit and let it be a warning for the future.

Today I ask, specifically, for the name on the box. If they can't tell me I won't order it. I won't accept brown boxes, imitated logos, or anything I doubt. "I think is not good enough." If they can't tell you they are holding the box don't take their word for it.

 

The MOOG and GM numbers are easy to find and I use them to search Ebay and Google, planning way in advance. I have a set of Moog 1960 Buick ball joints and with a running search of Moog numbers I have amassed almost all the parts to rebuild the Packard front end. And it doesn't even need it yet.

 

Patience and time will get you the parts and quality you want.

Bernie

[JZRIV]

When doing the 66 I found no supplier offered a kit with everything I wanted, and nothing I didn't want. First identify every part you want to replace then compare contents of kits to see how it matches up. I ended up buying suspension rebuild parts from Rockauto, CARS, Kanter, and ebay.

The good thing about buying a kit besides convenience is usually you can save on shipping vs buying piece-meal from different vendors with a shipping hit from each one. In my case after pricing it all out on a spreadsheet checking various sources, I ended up saving money using various vendors despite more shipping. There was a pretty decent variation on individual part cost on some items. I will say I probably spent too much time in that process.

Edited October 7, 2016 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[telriv]

1st. thing I gotta say, DON'T JUST BUY PARTS IN KITS. Check what's needed 1st. A '64 DOESN'T have upper control arm bushings, but threaded shafts. If the car was somewhat taken care of they will NOT be worn out. On my '64 with over 300K has ONLY had the center link replaced years ago as far as actual linkage goes. Sway bar bushings, end links, reaction rod bushings, shocks have been replaced at one point in time. Then again I've owned my Riv. since new & have been taking care of it for 50+ yrs.

 

 

Tom T.

[KongaMan]

32 minutes ago, telriv said:

1st. thing I gotta say, DON'T JUST BUY PARTS IN KITS. Check what's needed 1st. A '64 DOESN'T have upper control arm bushings, but threaded shafts. If the car was somewhat taken care of they will NOT be worn out.

Well, a kit is substantially cheaper than buying individual parts.  Example: CARS' front end kit is $246.50.   Purchased individually, those same parts are well over $500.  Even if you don't need everything, you might still save significant money.  As a general rule, though, one might safely assume that 50+ year-old suspension rubber is no longer at optimum performance.  Given the hassle of replacing some of the parts (e.g. LCA bushings), I'd lean towards putting in new ones while everything's apart.  The expense is minimal, the benefits probable, and it's a whole lot easier than tearing it apart a second time.

 

I'd also suggest that a '64 does have UCA bushings.  At least, they are listed as such in the parts book (part # 1363907) and by every vendor who sells them.  Perhaps you have a different name for the parts that thread onto the shaft and insulate the arm from the shaft?

 

There's also the matter of time here.  Suppose you disassemble the front end and do a comprehensive determination of the parts needed.  Then you source and order the parts.  Meanwhile, your car is in pieces and undriveable.  IMHO, it's far better to have the parts on hand so you can replace as you go.  You can always return the unused parts for a refund.  The end result is a one-or two-day project instead of a two-week project.

Edited October 7, 2016 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[RivNut]

To quote my dad who was a Buick mechanic for years. "Good ain't cheap, and cheap ain't good."  

[KongaMan]

8 minutes ago, RivNut said:

To quote my dad who was a Buick mechanic for years. "Good ain't cheap, and cheap ain't good."  

 

Concur, but if you're referring to my observation that the kit is cheaper than the individual parts: I'm assuming that the parts themselves are the same.  That is, I don't think that CARS would sell one upper ball joint as a standalone item while putting a different upper ball joint in the front end kit.

 

FWIW, CARS says that their front end kits are shipped directly from the manufacturer, and some of the pictures that they use for the individual components are the same as the pictures on the Rare Parts site.  To be fair, the person with whom I spoke at CARS couldn't/wouldn't say who makes these parts for them (nor would Rare Parts confirm this), but...

[telriv]

I don't think you understand the main problem your facing. IF your original upper ball joint is OK the replacement will almost definitely be made in CHINA & will wear out/be loose & probably fall apart BEFORE your original will finish wearing out. Understand???  You have to be VERY CAREFUL what you buy. Where you buy. From who you buy. Best is someone who knows what they are talking about & familiar with your vehicle no matter what type of vehicle you may have. You call these places & they are ALL salesman & make a commission ( probably sold insurance last week ) on parts they sell. They don't CARE where they are made as long as they make the sale & pad their commission. Very many of these replacement/re-pro parts are MOSTLY GARBAGE. Ask anyone in the know or has already been there/done that.   

As far as MOOG goes. Today many of their parts are now made in China. How much is your piece of mind worth???   How much would it cost to repair something that was replaced & failed & the vehicle got wrecked or worse someone got hurt. Personally I would rather pay EXTRA for QUALITY replacement parts from someone who deals with your type of vehicle.

Just my thoughts on the subject being in the auto repair industry my WHOLE life.

 

 

Tom T.

[KongaMan]

One might have thought it was obvious that I'm well aware of the spotty quality of replacement parts, as evidenced by posting a thread asking for opinions and experience from those "in the know or [who have] already been there/done that."  One might have also thought it equally obvious that the purpose of this thread is to identify sources for those sometimes elusive quality parts.

 

So, to that end: got any suggestions or sources for where to find them?

[70rivme]

FWIW, I just completed the front end rebuild on my 1970 Riv yesterday. I know it is not the same as a '64, but figured it could help in your project. I planned my build for months due to the cost of acquiring the parts. Everything steering linkage related and the upper and lower ball joints were made by Rare Parts and sourced from Auto Zone online using their 20% off + $10 gift card deal. Rare Parts are great quality and Glen in the technical department is great to deal with if questions arise during the install. The lower control arm bushings were sourced from Cars in NJ when I stopped by to check the place out while in town. Quality looks to be very good, but I do not know where they were made. They installed flawlessly. Here is a tidbit I learned about Moog from the upper control arm bushings I sourced from Amazon. I learned to make sure to get the Moog parts that say Made in USA. When I was sent bushings that said anything different than USA you could without a doubt see the quality difference. After I get an alignment this week, that will be one less part of a 46 year old Riv that will have to be addressed and I can go back to enjoying the ride! Good luck with the project, hope this helped. 

Edited October 9, 2016 by 70rivme (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Call Doug at The Buick Farm. He sells only NOS parts if you're that concerned.

[KongaMan]

2 hours ago, 70rivme said:

FWIW, I just completed the front end rebuild on my 1970 Riv yesterday. I know it is not the same as a '64, but figured it could help in your project. I planned my build for months due to the cost of acquiring the parts. Everything steering linkage related and the upper and lower ball joints were made by Rare Parts and sourced from Auto Zone online using their 20% off + $10 gift card deal. Rare Parts are great quality and Glen in the technical department is great to deal with if questions arise during the install. The lower control arm bushings were sourced from Cars in NJ when I stopped by to check the place out while in town. Quality looks to be very good, but I do not know where they were made. They installed flawlessly. Here is a tidbit I learned about Moog from the upper control arm bushings I sourced from Amazon. I learned to make sure to get the Moog parts that say Made in USA. When I was sent bushings that said anything different than USA you could without a doubt see the quality difference. After I get an alignment this week, that will be one less part of a 46 year old Riv that will have to be addressed and I can go back to enjoying the ride! Good luck with the project, hope this helped. 

Good info; it definitely helps.  Thanks for that.

 

As far as I can tell, Rare Parts and Moog are the two most reliable names for these parts.  Trouble is, Moog doesn't offer everything you might need and Rare Parts is priced at a premium.  God knows who else is making these things; AFAIK they're coming from some low-bidder offshore plant.  If the front end kit from CARS is sourced from Rare Parts, that seems to be a good deal (and certainly better pricing than you can get elsewhere, even if you do end up with a couple of extra parts).  I have no idea what guys like PST sell, but I've heard a couple of stories not too dissimilar to Bernie's from folks who have purchased there.  And frankly, if they can't match a nut with a bolt, I'm not too sure I'd trust them to get the rest of the part right for something with a potentially catastrophic failure mode.

[KongaMan]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

Call Doug at The Buick Farm. He sells only NOS parts if you're that concerned.

I'm not as enamored with NOS as some folks are.  It's fine (great, even) for things like gears, trim pieces, etc., but I'm not too sure that I'd have full confidence in rubber parts like belts or bushings.

 

Put another way: how fast would you drive on a 50-year-old set of "new" tires?

[RivNut]

12 hours ago, KongaMan said:

I'm not as enamored with NOS as some folks are.  It's fine (great, even) for things like gears, trim pieces, etc., but I'm not too sure that I'd have full confidence in rubber parts like belts or bushings.

 

Put another way: how fast would you drive on a 50-year-old set of "new" tires?

Not too fast.  Good point.

[70rivme]

KongaMan, any update on the front end of your Riv? Just picked the '70 up this afternoon from the alignment shop. I didn't realize a 46 year old car could drive as amazing as it did on the ride home. It was only about 10 miles but noticeable. Last time I noticed that big of an improvement was replacing the original tires and strut rod bushings after I drove it 100+ miles home from buying it. One other detail I did to my ride during the rebuild was solid steel tie rod sleeves from P-S-T. Since it does not seem like you are after the original look I thought that might be another detail you would be interested in. They are powder coated and seem to be of great quality plus they make adjusting a breeze.

[KongaMan]

I'm still trying to get info on who makes the parts for the various vendors.  As you might imagine, some of the outfits are reluctant to divulge that info.  CARS did have an interesting response, though, when I called a second time.  I asked where the parts came from, and he said "I gotta ask my boss."  Then he came back and said, "They ship from our warehouse."

 

I've about decided to order a CARS kit and have a look at the parts.  We know they sell some Rare Parts stuff, I was told by a different rep that the front end kit ships from the vendor in CA, and Rare Parts is in CA.  It will be easy enough to make that determination with a quick look at the parts.  And if I don't like/want them, all it will cost is shipping charges to send them back.

 

On a more general note, I'm looking (hoping?) for a marked improvement.  I've had the car since '78, and the only work that I can positively remember doing to the front end is new reaction rod bushings and new springs (which turned out to be no different than the ones they replaced).  It's always been maintained, but there's some inevitable age-related deterioration of bushings, etc.  Replacing those should provide some benefit even if other parts (ball joints, tie rod ends, etc.) are good.  I just went through a similar exercise with another vehicle (new shocks, stabilizer bar bushings, stabilizer links, lower control arm bushings, one tie rod end, track bar).  It drives like it's new, and all for a couple of hours of work and about $230 in parts.  If I really wanted to go off the deep end, I'd add stiffer springs (which it really needs anyway), a quicker ratio steering box, and (maybe) a heftier sway bar.

 

On an even more general note, I'd replaced a couple of other rubber parts on that second vehicle a while ago (motor mounts and harmonic balancer).  It was amazing what a difference those two changes made in how smoothly it ran.  As a result, I'm kind of on a mission to replace the "structural" rubber on the Riv.  Front end, body mounts, motor mounts, and (maybe) transmission mount.  These things degrade slowly, and you don't always notice the change as it's happening -- but man, you notice the change when it's fixed.

Edited October 14, 2016 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[70rivme]

I went the route of 1" lowered springs from coil spring specialties. They are good to deal with and are willing to work with you if problems arise. I installed the springs before I did the front end work to make sure they were going to be the right modification I was looking for as well as the stance. They were great, so I continued with the rest. Nothing like installing springs twice! When you get your front end kit, I think you should be able to identify if it's from Rare Parts by either a part # on it, a stamp on the part or the RP part # stamped into the metal.

[KongaMan]

47 minutes ago, 70rivme said:

I installed the springs before I did the front end work to make sure they were going to be the right modification I was looking for as well as the stance.

 

I was going to take a bit of a different approach, as I figure that squished body mounts, compressed isolators, and distorted bushings will all affect height and stance.  So I was going to swap them out first.  Once that's done, I'll know where I am with the old springs.  At that point, I've got the option of sending one of the old springs into CSS with instructions to "Make me a set that is X" taller/shorter than these."  Per my conversations with them, they'll measure the old springs, then make new ones that have the exact difference you want (±¼" or so).  So, for example, I can send in one of my soft, squished standard front springs and tell them "Give me a set of stiffer springs that will raise the front end 1".

 

As you noted, the down side of this approach is that you get to install the springs twice.  The upside is that you get exactly what you want.

 

47 minutes ago, 70rivme said:

When you get your front end kit, I think you should be able to identify if it's from Rare Parts by either a part # on it, a stamp on the part or the RP part # stamped into the metal.

 

Great minds think alike.

Edited October 14, 2016 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[70rivme]

With the way you are going to handle the springs, I think that is your winning combination. Address the other factors then get the springs tailored to exactly what you want/need. Smart play. Let me know if you need any help deciphering your front end kit if you think it came from Rare Parts. I'll click some pics of the identifying #''s  and such from what I put on my ride in case there's doubts.

[DrP]

For me this is a timely post: My mechanic suggested I get the following: Inner and outer tie rods. Adjusting sleeves. Center link. Pittman arm and "Idler" arm. Do all these parts come in the kit from CARS? Is there anything else I'll need to rebuild the front end?? Trying to get the car ready for the Reno meet so on a tight schedule. Thanks for any help.

[alini]

I purchased every part for my suspension from CARS except the springs.  I had no problem with them fitting at all and my car drove smooth as silk when done

[KongaMan]

46 minutes ago, DrP said:

For me this is a timely post: My mechanic suggested I get the following: Inner and outer tie rods. Adjusting sleeves. Center link. Pittman arm and "Idler" arm. Do all these parts come in the kit from CARS? Is there anything else I'll need to rebuild the front end?? Trying to get the car ready for the Reno meet so on a tight schedule. Thanks for any help.

Dunno why you'd need the adjusting sleeves or Pittman arm (do they typically wear out?).  The outer tie rod ends come in the front end kit.  The inners aren't in the kit, nor is the idler arm or center link.  The center link is an animal unto itself.  You'll have time and money tied up in that one.  The inner tie rods aren't cheap either.  You can get Moog outers about anywhere.  The lower ball joints are still available as well.  The center link, upper ball joints, and inner tie rods are the ones that are harder to find.

 

I just called CARS about these parts yesterday.  They said the front end kit drop ships from New Jersey.  A few months ago they said it came from California.  The two aren't necessarily inconsistent, but it is a point of difference.

 

My experience is that if you've got an older car, you can run into a creeping death situation.  That is, you inspect the steering and find that one or two parts are bad, so you replace them.  As soon as they're tightened up, you see a couple of other sloppy parts that didn't show because other pieces were so loose.  Pretty soon, you've made several trips under the car replacing things one at a time, when it would have been far easier to do the whole thing in one shot.  You hate to replace good parts unnecessarily, but your time's worth something, ya know?   IMHO, if you're diving into this, you might as replace all the rubber (LCA bushings, stabilizer bar bushings and links, reaction rod bushings, etc.) while you're at it.  The LCA bushings (and ball joints) ramp up the commitment, though, as you need to tangle with the springs as well if you take them on.

[RivNut]

Last I heard, there were no replacements got the center link.  You'll need to have yours rebuilt.

[KongaMan]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

Last I heard, there were no replacements got the center link.  You'll need to have yours rebuilt.

I keep thinking that if they can rebuild it, you can rebuild it. It's not a mechanically complicated piece.  You might guess that what usually happens is the socket wears and the ball gets loose.  Which means that (theoretically, anyway) you could take off the cap (it's spot-welded on, no?), replace the guts, put the cap back on, and you're good to go.  The trick would be finding the proper replacement parts, preferably ones that don't require any machining.

[DrP]

7 hours ago, alini said:

I purchased every part for my suspension from CARS except the springs.  I had no problem with them fitting at all and my car drove smooth as silk when done

Thanks Chris. CARS has a "Front End Kit - FEK634D for $365.25 which includes 2 shafts (don't understand what these are) , 2 upper ball joints, 2 lower ball joints, 2 outer tie rod ends, 2 stabilizer link kits (don't understand what these are) and a control arm bumper.

Ready to order but IMPORTANT INFO needed: Kit doesn't seem to include A: Inner tie rod ends OR B: Idler arm OR C:  Pittman arm OR D: The center link OR E: 2 adjusting sleeves. Won't I also need these as well? 

Can someone please advise just exactly what I should order to rebuild the steering assembly? Thanks,

 

[KongaMan]

The shafts connect the upper control arms to the frame.  The stabilizer links connect the stabilizer bar to the lower control arm.

 

Do you need those other parts?  Not to be smart, but it depends on if the ones on the car now are bad.  If you just want to replace everything, then, no, the front end kit doesn't have everything you need. 

 

For a complete rebuild of the steering linkage, you need:

- 2 inner tie rods

- 2 outer tie rod ends

- center link

- idler arm

- 2 tie rod adjusting sleeves

 

For the front suspension you need:

- Stabilizer bar bushings

- Stabilizer link kits

- Brake reaction rod bushings

- lower control arm bushings

- upper control arm shafts

- upper control arm bushings

- upper and lower ball joints

- upper and lower control arm bumpers

 

If I may make a general recommendation: get a service manual if you don't have one already.  Read Sections 7 and 8 thoroughly.  Lots of good info and pictures that will explain all of this.

 

The bottom line is that we don't know what your car needs.  Maybe your front end is completely shot and needs everything.  Maybe not.  If you've still got some serviceable components, you can end up spending a lot of unnecessary money in a hurry if you replace stuff willy-nilly.  Look at the list your mechanic gave you: outer tie rod ends ($30 each), inner tie rods ($95 each), center link ($275), pitman arm(?), idler arm ($30), and adjusting sleeves ($15 each).  You're pushing $600 already -- without even touching the rubber parts that are quite likely shot or the ball joints.  You might also have another talk with your mechanic.  When he suggested you get those parts, was he giving you a laundry list or did he diagnose them to be bad?  Because if it's the latter, he said your whole steering system is shot.  And if it's the former, you can possibly save a bunch of money with a more specific evaluation.

[DrP]

13 hours ago, KongaMan said:

The shafts connect the upper control arms to the frame.  The stabilizer links connect the stabilizer bar to the lower control arm.

 

Do you need those other parts?  Not to be smart, but it depends on if the ones on the car now are bad.  If you just want to replace everything, then, no, the front end kit doesn't have everything you need. 

 

For a complete rebuild of the steering linkage, you need:

- 2 inner tie rods

- 2 outer tie rod ends

- center link

- idler arm

- 2 tie rod adjusting sleeves

 

For the front suspension you need:

- Stabilizer bar bushings

- Stabilizer link kits

- Brake reaction rod bushings

- lower control arm bushings

- upper control arm shafts

- upper control arm bushings

- upper and lower ball joints

- upper and lower control arm bumpers

 

If I may make a general recommendation: get a service manual if you don't have one already.  Read Sections 7 and 8 thoroughly.  Lots of good info and pictures that will explain all of this.

 

The bottom line is that we don't know what your car needs.  Maybe your front end is completely shot and needs everything.  Maybe not.  If you've still got some serviceable components, you can end up spending a lot of unnecessary money in a hurry if you replace stuff willy-nilly.  Look at the list your mechanic gave you: outer tie rod ends ($30 each), inner tie rods ($95 each), center link ($275), pitman arm(?), idler arm ($30), and adjusting sleeves ($15 each).  You're pushing $600 already -- without even touching the rubber parts that are quite likely shot or the ball joints.  You might also have another talk with your mechanic.  When he suggested you get those parts, was he giving you a laundry list or did he diagnose them to be bad?  Because if it's the latter, he said your whole steering system is shot.  And if it's the former, you can possibly save a bunch of money with a more specific evaluation.

 

[Sleep]

Hey all. New to the forum. Picked up a 63 that was lightly customized about 12 years ago. I'm doing lower ca bushings, upper and lower bj's, all tie rod ends and sleeves, springs, shocks (jamco's with a 3" drop) and a Wilwood front disc conversion. Sorry to all the restoration purists. I get it, but I want a bullet proof daily, and someone already molested this one and not in the best way.

 

Upper ball joints are welded in. Took those tacks off with a cutoff wheel. Lower ball joint looks weird to me. It appears as though the bj is almost integrated into the lower control arm. Can anyone enlighten me as to the best way to get those out? I have a bj press, vices, etc. I have a manual. Just looks off to me. Not sure where to shoulder on the pressing (top) side. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[KongaMan]

Just press them out.   You might get a clearer view if you pull the boots off so you can see what you're working with. Look carefully, though: when I did mine, one of the lower ball joints was tacked in on the stud side (not like the back side where the uppers were tacked).

 

You sure all these parts are bad?  Most of mine were (all but one upper ball joint), but a lot of these parts can be still serviceable.  I get replacing ball joints because of the hassle involved, but steering parts are easy to revisit later.  Did you check your idler arm and center link?

 

Don't forget: don't tighten the LCA bushings until you have the weight back on the wheels.

[KongaMan]

Just press them out.   You might get a clearer view if you pull the boots off so you can see what you're working with. Look carefully, though: when I did mine, one of the lower ball joints was tacked in on the stud side (not like the back side where the uppers were tacked).

 

You sure all these parts are bad?  Most of mine were (all but one upper ball joint), but a lot of these parts can be still serviceable.  I get replacing ball joints because of the hassle involved, but steering parts are easy to revisit later.  Did you check your idler arm and center link?

 

Don't forget: don't tighten the LCA bushings until you have the weight back on the wheels.

[KongaMan]

I thought I'd necro this thread to let folks know how things turned out, in case someone finds help, amusement, or a cautionary tale therein...

 

First, I was unable to get any sense of which available parts might be the best, so I ordered a slew of parts so I could do a comparison:  front end kit and idler arm from CARS, front end kit, idler arm, and inner tie rods from Kanter, Rare Parts inner tie rods and upper ball joints from Car Parts Discounts, ACDelco LCA bushings, KYB and Monroe shocks, Moog lower ball joints, Moog outer tie rod ends, and Moog stabilizer bar bushings from Rock Auto, and tie rod adjusting sleeves from the local Autozone (because I forgot to order them elsewhere).  I also ordered new springs from Autozone. I didn't have time get a fitted set from CSS, and these springs were only $32(!) with one of their "20% off and free shipping" promotions.  They couldn't be any worse than what I had, so I rolled the dice.  I figured that whatever I needed, I would have, and what I didn't need would go back.

 

The first step was to see what needed to be replaced.  As it turned out, the answer was almost everything.  The shocks were completely gone (they wouldn't even rebound when compressed).  The steering components looked to be all original parts (with the Saginaw S stamped into the covers), and both outer tie rods, both inner tie rods, and both lower ball joints were shot (as in you hold the shaft and the body flops around).  One upper ball joint seemed OK, one seemed a borderline, and there was some play in the idler arm.  Fortunately, the centerlink looked good.  So, I chose to replace everything and to use one of the front end kits rather than the individual parts I'd ordered. I wasn't entirely comfortable with that decision because of the unknown provenance and quality of the parts, but it would have cost about twice as much to use the ones purchased separately.

 

So, which kit to use?  Not surprisingly, some of the parts were identical: the LCA bushings, UCA bushings, and stabilizer links  looked to be the exact same parts.  I couldn't see any big difference between the ball joints or tie rod ends (or any clues as to where they were made, other than a script D on the cover).  The idler arms, though, were different.  The CARS arm used a ball and socket design, while the Kanter arm used the threaded pivot (like the upper control arms).  I liked the CARS arm better (as there was a little looseness in the Kanter arm right out of the box), so I used the CARS kit.  I should mention that I considered ordering a kit from PST as well, but I got so much attitude from the salesman on the phone that I decided against doing business with them.  I'll also note that some of the CARS parts came in bags marked with part numbers that were identical to the part numbers listed on the PST site.  The CARS kit is drop-shipped from somewhere in NJ, so who knows where these guys are all getting their parts.

 

I decided to use the KYB shocks instead of the Monroes because the Monroes were (IMHO) just too soft.  It took some effort to get the KYBs to compress, but the Monroes would compress with only light pressure, and I wanted something stiffer to get a little firmer ride.

 

The work was straightforward enough: remove the old parts, clean whatever was going back on, get them blasted, paint, and reinstall.  I took the opportunity to clean 50 years of goo off the frame, and to pull and clean the brake components.  The cleaning took longer than the mechanical work.

 

There were a couple of issues when putting everything back together:

-  I discovered that the right lower control arm was different than any other first gen control arm I'd ever seen.  It seemed to be functionally and dimensionally correct, but the "cover" was shaped differently and the ball joint was tacked in rather than being a simple press fit as on the left control arm.  In fact, I had to cut away part of the cover to get the press in so I could install the new ball joint (at least it looks almost like the other arm now).  This control arm had been replaced ~40 years ago; I have no idea what was used or where it came from.

- The angled zerk fittings on the ball joints were problematic.  I just lined up the cotter pin holes front to back and pressed the ball joints in without giving any thought to the fittings.  Most zerk fittings have a taper fit: tighten them until they're snug, then you have some leeway to turn them until they're pointed where you want them.  Not these: they didn't tighten up until they were bottomed out.  And they bottomed out with the fittings pointed into the brake backing plate.  WTF?  There's no way you'd ever get a grease gun on them, so I had to put washers under them so that when they tightened up they were pointing in a accessible direction.  That kind of inattention to detail made me a bit uncomfortable about the level of care and competence assembling the internals.

- The adjusters from Autozone were crappy: flimsy, and with metric nuts.

- I wanted to use the Rare Parts inner control arms -- until I ran into a problem with them.  Specifically, the two arms weren't identical.  One was a Moog part, the other something else.  And that something else was something else entirely: the taper didn't fit the centerlink, and it had metric threads.  I called Rare Parts to ask about this.  I came away with a completely different understanding of their business.  First, much of what they do is reselling parts they acquired through overstocks, closeouts, etc.    You buy a part from them, you might be getting a part from Moog, McQuay-Norris, TRW, etc.  Or you might be getting a part that they've refurbed.  If you get a Diamond Series part, you're getting something they've worked on.  If you order two of the same part, they try to send you two identical parts (e.g. two Moog, two TRW, etc.).  It's kind of a crap shoot, and you won't know what you're getting until you open the box.  In my case, their answer was that I must have received a part that had been refurbed with the wrong components. In any event, I couldn't use those inner tie rods, so I used the ones from Kanter instead.  Even at that, the Kanter parts had different threads than the original parts.

 

Those issues notwithstanding, everything went together smoothly.  I used some thick fender washers over the short arms on the KYB shocks, and I needed to use ratchet straps to pull the control arms into position to attach the reaction rods after installing new bushings.

 

When I installed the upper control arms, I moved all the shims from the front to the back.  I figured this would give me as much caster as possible, which I want because I've installed radials.  I also cheated on the initial positioning of the shafts.  The manual says to center the shaft in the control arm.  I didn't do that; I centered it, then gave it an extra spin towards the rear.  According to rough calculations based on the thread pitch on the shaft and dimensions of these parts, that should provide an extra degree of positive caster.

 

Everything's clean and tight, and with the new shocks and springs the front end is 2" higher (which is right where I wanted it).  I gave it a hillbilly alignment (it goes straight when the steering wheel is level) and took it for a spin.  It certainly seemed to track better, and there was noticeably less play.  I didn't take it in for a real alignment because I ran out of time, and I want replace those adjusting sleeves and see if I can get the scoop on the control arm before throwing $100 at it that I might have to redo.  It will be interesting to see if those upper control arm changes give the extra caster I'm after.

 

Pictures:

 

After the brakes are removed and before everything is disassembled (note the chain through the spring).  It looks better now .

 

 

Kanter idler arm (left) and CARS idler arm (right):

 

 

Mysterious right lower control arm after blasting and painting (note that the opening for the stabilizer link is completely enclosed; it's open on most control arms).  You can also see the marks where the ball joint was tacked in:

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history)