for sale 1933 Pierce-Arrow 836 rumble seat coupe

[Matt Harwood]

This car will be in Hershey car corral spaces B67-B69!

 

I've been trying to buy this car for my personal collection for many years. It's local to me and owned by a friend, and I told him that when he was ready to sell, I really, really wanted it. And when I first told him that years ago, I could afford it and, in fact, two years ago he said to me, "You'll be surprised by how affordable it is." Well, things change and years go by and by the time he was ready to sell, the car was worth more than he expected. I could have kept my mouth shut and he probably would have sold it to me for the number he had in mind, but it would not have been right to have taken the car from him at that figure. I told him what I believed it was really worth (which is reflected in today's asking price), and he was pleasantly surprised. A similar car, a '34 840A coupe, sold last year at the Hershey auction for $154,000+commissions and I believe there's a nearly identical car with a white top that privately sold more recently for a similarly large figure. So as sad as I am that the car is not to be mine, I do have the honor of having it in my inventory and enjoying it on a limited scale before it moves to a new home.

 

My friend found the car in 1992 as a basket case. A neighbor's son came over and said that his father had passed away and there was an old car in the barn, would he be interested? My friend, being an old car guy who mostly did Model As and other simple cars, went over and took a look. It was this car, albeit fully disassembled in preparation for restoration. He went over it carefully and it appeared to be complete and, perhaps more importantly, there wasn't a speck of rust anywhere to be found. He bought it for the then princely sum of $20,000 and spent a few days hauling the parts home. He called noted restorer Jack Heimovics here in Ohio and a few months later, delivered the pile of Pierce-Arrow pieces to him for a full frame-off restoration to show standards. Three years later, in 1995, the car was completed and proceeded to win its CCCA National First Prize. My friend, who doesn't much care about judging and awards and prizes, stopped showing the car after that and instead used it for touring and club events. So yes, it's been driven, although it has been invited to concours events like the Glenmoor Gathering and the Stan Hywet Concours d'Elegance.

 

Twenty years later, the car is still stunning. The paint shows only the most minor signs of age, and yes, it's two colors of burgundy, with the fenders having a slight splash of metallic in them for contrast. The finish remains shiny and lustrous and panel fit is exemplary. The long hood fits well and latches easily, the massive, heavy suicide-style doors open and close without a major slam, and the rumble seat lid pops open with light pressure. A yellow pinstripe adds a jaunty bit of contrast and isn't excessively done, with my friend's initials on the doors (easy enough to remove). The chrome was all refinished to show standards and the lovely Pierce-Arrow "archer" hood ornament is quite well detailed, although it appears that his arrow came loose at some point and has been affixed with a bit of clear glue or silicone, but that's only noticeable if you get close enough to poke your eye out. Out back the three-element taillight is fully functional, including the back-up light, and there's a full luggage rack that's a beautiful accessory.

 

The interior, including the rumble seat, was reupholstered in supple black leather. It's debatable whether it was how it came originally, but the result is low maintenance and quite comfortable. The door panels are gray broadcloth, the gray carpets are deep and luxurious, and all the wood garnish moldings were fully restored and simply glow from within. The instruments were restored and are all functional except maybe the clock--I haven't tried winding it. You'll note that it's equipped with a Startix system, so you just flip the switch and the car starts itself automatically, and the unusual foot pedals make it feel a lot more modern than you'd expect for 1933. The rear window cranks open for conversations with rumble-seat occupants, and with that long 136-inch wheelbase, there's plenty of room inside the golf door for storage (yes, the vintage 1930s golf clubs are included with the car). The rumble seat is in almost unused condition and includes fold-out armrests to protect you from hot sheetmetal on a sunny day. There is no trunk and I think it would be a mistake to put one on such a sleek car.

 

The 366 cubic inch straight-8 was fully rebuilt and the owner says there might be 5000 miles on it since it was restored. It has been recently serviced by David Heinrichs so it runs and drives very well, certainly as well as anything else from 1933. The only notable deviation is a manual choke for the carburetor as the automatic one could not be made to function reliably, but that's an easy thing to reverse if you can figure it out. The engine bay is a glittering display of chrome, nickel, brass, and black engine enamel, clearly designed to be shown off. The porcelain on the exhaust manifold is flaking, which is to be expected on any car that has been driven any significant distance at operating temperatures, but otherwise it remains in near-show condition. It makes 50 pounds of oil pressure at start up and about 30 pounds at hot idle, the cooling system stays right around 180 degrees, and the generator and regulator work pretty well for being primitive--you can watch the ammeter bounce around as the regulator reacts to demand. The transmission is a 3-speed with synchromesh and it cruises pretty easily at 55 MPH, making it a fantastic tour car. It does have Free-Wheeling, but leave that widow-making system alone, even though the power-assisted mechanical brakes are reassuringly powerful. I love the look of the Bedford wide whites on those 17-inch artillery wheels, as they seem much more period-correct than most.

 

This is a stunning car and I do deeply regret that my opportunity to keep it for myself has passed. But I know that its next owner will be delighted with it and maybe someday, if I'm lucky, he will sell it back to me. For now, we're asking $129,900, and the Pierce experts here will likely agree that this is a very, very fair price for a car like this. It's a tour car, not a show car, but nothing else drives like a Pierce-Arrow. Thanks for looking!

 

 

 

 

 

[trimacar]

Beautiful car, am going to try to get by to see it at Hershey.....Pierce coupes have really gone up in value, I sold a '35 coupe a number of years back and regret it to this day......

[edinmass]

It's interesting that in today's market a coupe is much more in demand than thirty years ago. The younger collectors today are the driving force behind it. On the seven figure cars, coupe's can cost more than the convertibles. Go figure. I still like D/C Pheaton and sport Pheatons over roadsters and convertible coupes, guess I am just behind the times. The car above is rather new to most Pierce guys. For fifty years there were only three known of this body type, this became the fourth on the list of known cars. One was purchased new in Hollywood by Ginger Rodgers, and currently belongs to a friend of mine. Another has been extensively modified. One was on tour with me last week in Maine, and one is unrestored. The unrestored car just changed hands after 65 years of sitting in the same garage, and it's new owner plans a restoration in the future. 

[alsancle]

I absolutely love these and I'm one of the guys that really like the coupes.  Many times the green house is smaller than the open car.

 

This particular car is spectacular and I'm sure it will sell without too much trouble.  I guess my only nit would be the red.

[Matt Harwood]

This one was originally sold to a doctor in New York City, and remained in his family until the 1960s. I don't know how many owners it had between that time and the farmer from whom my friend bought it, but he says that the doctor's initials were still visible on the doors, which is why he put his initials on it in the same place using the same script font. I'm not a fan of monogramming cars, but I guess that's an acceptable link to the past. Neat to know that there are other known examples, including one owned by Ginger Rogers. Thanks for that insight, Ed!

[K8096]

Wasn't there a maroon one of these in the Car Corral at Hershey last year or the year before up near the Giant Center.   I believe it had a tan top.   It sold right away.    

Edited September 25, 2016 by K8096 (see edit history)

[K8096]

Here's a couple shots of the current car for sale in the 1950's when it was sitting under a tree behind a gas station in Shaker Heights, OH.   It still had it's NY license plates on it when these photos were taken.   

 

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by K8096 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Yes Jason,. The one at Hershey sold as the guy was taking it off the truck in the corral. It was on the caravan last week and I think I posted a picture of it on that thread.

[Matt Harwood]

4 hours ago, K8096 said:

Here's a couple shots of the current car for sale in the 1950's when it was sitting under a tree behind a gas station in Shaker Heights, OH.   It still had it's NY license plates on it when these photos were taken.   

 

 

 

 

Wow, that's awesome! Where did you find those photos and how do you know the history? Can I use those photos, I'm sure the next owner would be very interested in seeing them.

 

Very cool!

[K8096]

Yeah, you can copy the photos.   I gave copies of them to the owner about 15 years ago, so if he doesn't still have them, then shame on him.   My dad took the pics in the 1950's.   We don't know who owned it at the time.    

[alsancle]

You would think stuff like that would be gold to an owner but not everybody seems to value history.

[Matt Harwood]

There's a large box of stuff that goes with the car that I haven't gone through yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they were in there. He's the kind of guy who would love this, so if he has them, I'm sure they were important to him.

 

I'm staring at the houses in the background of the photo--I'm almost sure I recognize the tudor house in the head-on shot. I grew up in Shaker Heights and I'm thinking that's over near the Chagrin/Lee/Avalon area, or maybe one of the duplexes adjacent to Van Aken Blvd. It looks familiar as hell.

[edinmass]

As I am sure  everyone here know the story behind the design and production of these cars I Wont  bore the members here with the info. I can also give you the name of the uhpolstery installer and his service record in World War Two. But it wouldn't be of much interest to most. ?

[K8096]

He said it was near the intersection of Chagrin & Lynnfield.   As you know, there's a lot of English tutor homes in Shaker.  The gas station was closed at the time the photo was taken, and is long gone now.  The photo was taken when he was in high school, and he was driving at the time, so that dates it as probably 1953 or 1954.  He said there was never anyone around the car, it was there only a short time & then it vanished.  I'll be over there again in a few weeks & may try to find that tutor house in the background for the heck of it.    

[Matt Harwood]

I've got a friend in the neighborhood looking for it now. He loves riding his bike, this will give him something to do! Chagrin and Lynnfield is very helpful.

[K8096]

OK.  Sounds good.  My aunt lives right around there too, so if your friend can't find it let me know & we can look too.   BTW, it was light cream with black wheels when the photo was taken.   

[Matt Harwood]

I think I found it, despite the trees. Thanks to the Chagrin-Lynnfield clue, this is likely it: 18707 Chagrin Blvd. Trees obscure most of the house, but the Tudor framing and front entry porch look the same and if you move Google around, you can see the second-floor windows, especially the one on the right with the dormer over it. Plus there's a vacant lot next door. This is the north side of Chagrin, so the gas station would have been on the south side, between Chagrin and Newell, a little west of Lynnfield.

 

There's a former grocery store (I think it's a dialysis center now) across the street, which would be right where the gas station was. So it's still a parking lot/commercial building, not residences.

 

Very cool!

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[K8096]

Yep, that's the house.   I was looking on Google maps too, but that tree thwarted me.    The brick house with the awnings next to it was built later as it's not in my photo.   My aunt lives right around the corner from this location.       

Edited September 26, 2016 by K8096 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Here's another shot. Look at the two white houses--now look at the houses in the side-profile picture of the Pierce.

 

Thanks for the details! This is really cool, especially since I lived about two blocks from here (not in the 1950s of course). For some stupid reason, this is really exciting to me.

 

I should drive the car over there and get some photos in that spot. Do you think your dad would like that?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[K8096]

I think the car was parked either where the newer brick addition to the building was, or where those two white houses are now.  I think the houses may have been built in the late 50's a few years after the photo was taken.   Don't bother with the pic, he's over in that area all the time  & knows it.  

Edited September 26, 2016 by K8096 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Going through the records this morning, I found a lot of photos, including the two up above. Lots of restoration photos of the car in pieces and being reassembled, as well as a tiny black-and-white photo of the car as it was found in the barn in pieces. I also found a neat little booklet that Jack Heimovics put together that contains samples of all the original upholstery materials: seats, headliner, door panels, windlace, rumble seat, top, etc. There's a second set from when it was reupholstered with tan leather up front and some funky paisley-like leather in back. Finally, I have a maintenance booklet that dates from the '40s through the '60s, starting in 1946 where it shows a pretty remarkable 71,000 miles. There's a note "Driven to Cleveland, 6/10-11/52." Then September '52, "Stored on blocks, mileage 78,626." A little later, "August 1953, registration, title, and notary, $2.40." The final entry is August 1964 when a new windshield was installed for $14,70. I also have lots of letters and correspondence between previous owners, including a detailed set of operating instructions from Dr. Grant P. Pennoyer of New York City, who I believe was the original owner. He notes that it runs best with only the rear-most hood vents open and he seems very concerned that it be treated and maintained properly. He has several pages of notes, most of which are written in pencil, so they're very hard to read.

 

There's a registration sticker from 1958 and the a title from 1962 showing that Marilyn Rockwood sold it to John P. Schlifer, who was the guy who sold it its current owner in the 1990s.

 

I'll bring all this stuff to Hershey, it's a real treasure trove of history along with a lot of Pierce-Arrow notes, including original manuals and promotional materials.

 

I geek out over this kind of paperwork--too cool!

[alsancle]

That is great stuff.

[K8096]

Ok, so I would think the photos were taken sometime between June and September of 1952 then, before the car was put up on blocks for the winter. Makes sense.  Dad turned 16 in Spring of 1952 & had his drivers license that summer.  We'll stop by at Hershey to say hi.   I'd be interested in seeing what addresses are on the titles.   

[Matt Harwood]

Marilyn H. Rockwood of 12708 Yrok (presumably York) Ave. in Cleveland sold it to John P. Schlifer of 3760 Hilltop Dr. in Parma on 4/22/63 for $1075 (which sounds like a lot of money in 1963).

[alsancle]

Some comparisons that I know are real from around the same time:

 

1.  1500 for 852 Auburn Speedster in 1957

2.  1000 for a Packard Darrin in 1959

3.  8500 for Model J Duesenberg Murphy Conv Sedan 1966

4.  6000 or 540k Mercedes Cab A 1966

5.  200 for Auburn 852 Coupe 1955

6.  200 for a XK140 MC OTC 1973

7. 1000 for a Cord 812 SC Cabriolet 1962

[C Carl]

"My" 1930 Mercedes Benz SS38/250 factory bodied touring (phaeton) WAY too nice to restore : $4700 (a steal) early '60s. 

         Still cryin' , Carl

[edinmass]

Yes, I agree the 1963 price was rather high. As for AJ's above numbers, I will offer a 400 percent return on every car plus 10 dollars a year for storage. That is a cash offer.

[Guest]

Matt, I know business is business, but you need to own this car. You seem to like the classics, and this one has too much history that ties in with your own. Don't fight it ....it's meant to be. Sell your other personal cars, and go for it!

[trimacar]

It's so hard to go back and realize what the prices were in the 1960's.  My first car, which I still own, is a 1931 Chevrolet tudor sedan, bought for less than $20 in 1964.  From 1964 to 1966, I restored it as a kid, and complete engine, paint, interior (I didn't do chrome, it was "good enough") was under $600, with me doing some of the grunt work and sanding on lacquer paint job.  In 1966, I bought (umm, my Dad, great guy, bought for me) a fully restored 1925 Dodge coupe, missing only seat upholstery to be finished, for $500.  I graduated to Classics later, in 1976 paid $7000 for a beautiful original 1934 Pierce 840 sedan, like a fool I restored it, it would be a treasure now unrestored as it was in great shape.  Looking back, wish I'd bought more early brass cars, but they just weren't in existence in Louisiana in the 1970's.....interesting stuff!

[edinmass]

Dave, you were collecting cars before I was born!

[vermontboy]

My dad bought a 1933 Model 836 for $300 in Boston in 1960 and we drove it back to Rochester NY the same day (drove out Friday night, bought it Saturday morning and drove it back - made for a long day). When we went to put the new plates on the car we discovered why the owner wasn't concerned with their return - they were cardboard ! Pix is after a respray - the interior was in nice shape.

$300 bought a lot of car in 1960..

[alsancle]

That is cool. You should post it to the Pierce thread in the CCCA forum.