Accumulator

[Barney Eaton]

Wonder if this will work?

 

http://www.partsgeek.com/wnktgqm-porsche-911-hydraulic-pressure-accumulator.html?utm_source=shoppingcom&utm_medium=pf&utm_content=wc&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+ShoppingCom&fp=pp&utm_term=Porsche+Hydraulic+Pressure+Accumulator

[Digger914]

Don't know, Coretco isn't on my cross reference list, definitely worth looking into.

[waltmail]

At $118.00, price is right. We need a guinea pig to buy one or start a GoFundMe account to share the costs of research. Would you do something like that Barney? I would kick in. Could use a PayPal account for this purpose.

 

 

BTW, found another source for this unit and it lists 8 different vendors with varying prices but none more than $150.00.

 

https://frugalmechanic.com/auto-part/corteco-w01331933541-hydraulic-pressure-accumulator?p=frugalmechanic_adcenter&e=adcenterfullhalffixed1%2Fmodel.full#s=bing&m=cpc&c=worldpac&t=hydraulic pressure accumulator corteco w0133 1933541

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by waltmail
additional info (see edit history)

[ChrisWhewell]

On September 11, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Barney Eaton said:

Wonder if this will work?

 

http://www.partsgeek.com/wnktgqm-porsche-911-hydraulic-pressure-accumulator.html?utm_source=shoppingcom&utm_medium=pf&utm_content=wc&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+ShoppingCom&fp=pp&utm_term=Porsche+Hydraulic+Pressure+Accumulator

I was looking for dimensions on that part, but found conflicting information.   How tall is a stock Teves accumulator on the Reatta's would be one question, and would an adapter be needed on the threads ?

[Digger914]

Sometimes spending money is the fastest way to find out but -------

So I Googled up Coretco, and their website is set up to find parts by vehicle. Their website says they also sell direct to small shops and one each for parts might be an option here. Their site did not give specs by part number, looks like they are new to doing direct business in the US, found (.de) e-mail address and Ohio phone number, don't have time to play phone tag today.

[ChrisWhewell]

Somebody ought to box them up an old accumulator, and tell them there's a bunch of us over here wanting one.   Probably just a small tooling change for them, if at all ?

[Guest Kingsley]

4 hours ago, ChrisWhewell said:

I was looking for dimensions on that part, but found conflicting information.   How tall is a stock Teves accumulator on the Reatta's would be one question, and would an adapter be needed on the threads ?

 

In an August 6 thread by "flajunkie" entitled "1990 Brake Issue" (slightly earlier than this thread)  post No. 33 by Barney laid out in detail the dimensions of the OE accumulator.   The sensitive dimension for the Reatta accumulator is the height which is shown at 4.075"  from top to the start of the threads.  The threaded section is, if my recall of his drawing is correct, about .5",  so you have an overall of 4.575" with this figure being modified (decreased)  by the depth of the threads used in the install.  Perhaps someone with an OE part can give the net overall actual figure.

 

Barney's post that we referenced has some very good overall accumulator info and one's interest would be well served by looking at it.

 

I do not have the dimensions of the Hydac accumulator immediately available but will see if I can come up with  them.  It's height is slightly greater than that of the OE but can be easily overcome by shimming up the cross brace at the strut tower point.by about 3/16"

 

Kingsley

www.reattapecialtyparts.com

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Kingsley (see edit history)

[ChrisWhewell]

I'm not so much into the brakes being original, I just like the body style of the Reatta.   The motor sucks, and can't wedge an L67 into it, mechanics are ignorant of Reatta, yet I still keep her.   I bought light bulbs today to replace an outage in the rear assembly, left the store and 2 store employees out gawking at her.  They turned away but within a second I said "What you looking at?" and sure 'nuff, it was the Reatta.   Maybe some masochists like fixing things, I know, believe me.   Anymore, I don't care about keeping a $3500 car "all stock", when my accumulator fails, I'll replace the whole system to the extent I can with something simpler, like out of a Riviera of the same year and put black electrical tape over the ABS idiot light, if I ever let it bother me.   Praktische.   Meantime however, if an company offers an accumulator at a reasonable price, I might bite.   But I definitely do not like the car for its archaeoligical feature of being advanced in the area of braking 30 years ago.   !!   Then again, I grew up on manual brakes with no power assist.   

[ChrisWhewell]

In other words, I'm all into her body.   Her mind is essentially useless.

[2seater]

 

2 hours ago, ChrisWhewell said:

The motor sucks, and can't wedge an L67 into it

 

L67 swaps are relatively straightforward, fairly common and a well known process???

[Barney Eaton]

I stumbled on the accumulator that started this post and I posted it as there is always a long winded discussion about them.

I was hoping that some sweet talking Reatta owner would contact the company and get the information on the part they sell.......remember our accumulator is made in Germany........and I think they still make Porsche in Germany,

it would seem there is a strong chance the parts would be similar, if not almost identical.

If I owned a 88-90 it would already been done, but I thought someone might take the lead and run with it.......seems like everyone want everything handed to them wrapped and tied with a ribbon.

[Digger914]

53 minutes ago, Barney Eaton said:

I stumbled on the accumulator that started this post and I posted it as there is always a long winded discussion about them.

I was hoping that some sweet talking Reatta owner would contact the company and get the information on the part they sell.......remember our accumulator is made in Germany........and I think they still make Porsche in Germany,

it would seem there is a strong chance the parts would be similar, if not almost identical.

If I owned a 88-90 it would already been done, but I thought someone might take the lead and run with it.......seems like everyone want everything handed to them wrapped and tied with a ribbon.

Contacted Corteco service at e-mail address provided for US Ohio location. Bit of a language problem to start with, but have been in contact and waiting on answer. 

[Digger914]

Took a couple of e-mails and maybe in the future we can do business with them. At the present time they do not sell an accumulator that we can use. 

[Guest Kingsley]

3 hours ago, Digger914 said:

Took a couple of e-mails and maybe in the future we can do business with them. At the present time they do not sell an accumulator that we can use. 

 

 

Thanks, appreciate your efforts.  UPS should deliver early evening an accumulator that I recently purchased.  "Said to" work nicely with the Reatta but I am a bit dubious.as to the proper accommodation.

 

Paid $210 for it with full agreement to take it back if it does not work.  I will know better when I have it in my hands and will report then.

 

Kingsley

Reatta Speciaty Parts

[waltmail]

18 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

If I owned a 88-90 it would already been done, but I thought someone might take the lead and run with it.......seems like everyone want everything handed to them wrapped and tied with a ribbon.

 Was it my post and suggestion that ticked you off? That surely wasn't my intention. I will butt out of this conversation as I do not need an accumulator and only thought I came up with a workable suggestion.

[ChrisWhewell]

Can't we rig a "taller" accumulator with suitable plumbing, to be mounted adjacent to its stock location ??   Wouldn't look pretty but would work, a bent pipe, in the shape of a quasi-S.  I betcha

[Barney Eaton]

I'm not ticked at anyone........we just need to be better organized.

In another post I included a photo/sketch of three accumulators showing different stages.... one has dimensions of a "stock" Teves accumulator.

It would be nice if we could build a library of the different accumulators.......take a picture of the accumulator (purchased from various sources) and add the dimensions of that accumulator.

In this way we could have a way of referencing to the different variations that may continue to surface.

When Kingsley gets the one he is expecting....if he would add the dimensions that would be a start.

I will even volunteer to post a photo/sketch of an accumulator with the dimensions blank.    Using the blank sketch, add the dimensions of the non-Teves accumulators and any other information on the accumulator.

With a little organized effort we could start identifying all these different accumulators.   Maybe we could get Peter to make a "sticky" out of a post and it would make for quick reference and a place to post new finds.

It will be a couple of days before I can post the template/sketch....my computer was in the hospital and now I am reloading my printer and scanner drivers (without much success)

[Guest Kingsley]

9 hours ago, Kingsley said:

 

 

Thanks, appreciate your efforts.  UPS should deliver early evening an accumulator that I recently purchased.  "Said to" work nicely with the Reatta but I am a bit dubious.as to the proper accommodation.

 

Paid $210 for it with full agreement to take it back if it does not work.  I will know better when I have it in my hands and will report then.

 

Kingsley

Reatta Speciaty Parts

 

I am guardedly optimistic that we have an acceptable part.  It's physical dimensions are very close to those of the OE part that Barney has previously outlined.  Physical size closeness alone is just part of the criteria and we will be checking in the morning to get info as to nitrogen pre-charge, max working pressure etcetera of the part. I am able to cipher "210  BAR" from the imprint on the side but beyond that it is impossible to glean anything.  It does have the hex section on the dome and the thread appears to be 14mm.

 

Keep thy fingers crossed.  I will be in touch with the vendor and hope to get a copy of full manufacturer specifications.in the morning.

 

Kingsley

Reatta Specialty Parts

 

.  .

[harry yarnell]

As to mounting the accumulator remotely, yes it has been done.

I removed one from a European piece (jag, maybe?) that had the accumulator all the way over on the passengers side of the engine bay.

[Guest Kingsley]

11 hours ago, Kingsley said:

 

I am guardedly optimistic that we have an acceptable part.  It's physical dimensions are very close to those of the OE part that Barney has previously outlined.  Physical size closeness alone is just part of the criteria and we will be checking in the morning to get info as to nitrogen pre-charge, max working pressure etcetera of the part. I am able to cipher "210  BAR" from the imprint on the side but beyond that it is impossible to glean anything.  It does have the hex section on the dome and the thread appears to be 14mm.

 

Keep thy fingers crossed.  I will be in touch with the vendor and hope to get a copy of full manufacturer specifications.in the morning.

 

Kingsley

Reatta Specialty Parts

 

.  .

 

 

Further information should be available later on this evening or tomorrow morning.  I am told that the precharge is 1000 PSI and I have asked for a copy of the manufacturer's spec sheet.  

 

Vendor says that he has at least 25 of them in inventory and is to check and see if additional available.  Also says he regularly sells the Hydac units and is to give me a price quote for them.

 

It is not my intention to be evasive in the way I approach this but just want to know what the full specs of the accumulator so that buyers can make their own judgement as to its compatibility as well as having the vendor's statement that it is compatible with the Reatta's TEVES Mark II system.

 

I was a bit surprised at the calculations that arrived at the $210 total purchase price.  Figured that sales tax and UPS shipping would account for the differential over the $185 price; however, "Shipping and Handling" totaled $25.00.

 

Kingsley

Reatta Specialty Parts

[Guest Kingsley]

On 9/14/2016 at 11:21 PM, Kingsley said:

 

I am guardedly optimistic that we have an acceptable part.  It's physical dimensions are very close to those of the OE part that Barney has previously outlined.  Physical size closeness alone is just part of the criteria and we will be checking in the morning to get info as to nitrogen pre-charge, max working pressure etcetera of the part. I am able to cipher "210  BAR" from the imprint on the side but beyond that it is impossible to glean anything.  It does have the hex section on the dome and the thread appears to be 14mm.

 

Keep thy fingers crossed.  I will be in touch with the vendor and hope to get a copy of full manufacturer specifications.in the morning.

 

Kingsley

Reatta Specialty Parts

 

.  .

 

Here is the latest.  Barmey has previously posted the dimensions of the OE part.  Jim Finn has has now confirmed to me some of the imprinted information from one of his OE accumulator and I will refer to these as "OE" part.  I am giving the ID of "SUB 1" to the part that I bought in California that is said to work with the TEVES Mar II ABS used on the '88/'90 Reattas.

 

I measure the height of SUB 1 to be .110" greater than the OE part.which is shown as 4.575".  A minimal difference and my measurement could be off that much. The diameters are the same, 3.300".  Overall figures include a .360" nib at the top than has an 8 MM hex recess in it as well as  .550" thread section at the bottom.

 

Both units have BAR 210 legibly imprinted on the side - believe his equates to 3000 PSI and may be the maximum working pressure.  OE part is clearly marked .25L. The imprint on SUB 1 is not clear but it does look like .25L.

 

Both units have  imprinted info on the side in addition to that mentioned above.  The imprint on SUB 1 not not clear but there is marked similarity to that reported for the OE part.

 

Seller says precharge is 1000 PSI.  He was not able to tell me where he purchased his stock of SUB 1 but thought it came from Delco.  He does have about 25 of them available.

 

Seller's name is ABS Power Brake, Inc. in Orange CA.  Website www.abspowerbrake.com.  Contact email memo@abspowerbrake.com. Telephone (714) 771-6549.

 

Note that they also offer a Hydac accumulator for the Reatta for around $150 plus shipping.and he has about 100 of them. My old notes show part number 3055720 but would be wise to check if ordering.  3055720 has been tested in a Reatta and performs well.  It is slightly larger than the OE part and it becomes necessary to shim up the cross piece on one side by about 1/4" or so.

 

When visiting the website, note that they have a number of negative reviews.  That being said, my purchase was easy, paid with a credit card and was shipped as promised.  The business owner, Memo, is the fellow with whom I have been speaking and he appears most knowledgeable..

 

I have no financial interest whatsoever in identifying this part.  There is a lot of info above and hopefully will be helpful.  Sometimes it gets to be a crap shoot when purchasing "blind" on Ebay.

 

Kingsley Baker

Reatta Specialty Parts

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Kingsley
typo (see edit history)

[Digger914]

There must be a better way to gather and disseminate parts information for this brake system. The Lotus blokes over in England were building their own replacement pressure switches after the Lotus part number obsoleted. They didn't know that they could change their plug connect and buy the switch they needed using the Reatta part number. Their accumulator part number obsoleted years before our favorite Delco part number and near as I can tell they were the first to identify the Wabco accumulator as a part that would fit and work. Power Brake Inc. has been around for years and they also have pumps. A good year ago I was trading accumulator info with Reatta Ronnie and Power Brake Inc. had accumulators that would work.  At that time the GM pump number was still good, now that GM has obsoleted this part number, looking to their available pump could be a good start towards identifying a source for an affordable replacement part. 

From Alfa Romero to Volkswagen, there is an alphabet full of cars that used this Teves2 system and there must be about a hundred different part numbers for the exact same part. One good cross reference list and we could provide a sales base large enough to insure that our parts are manufactured and available for years to come.

[Finfan1]

Yesterday I got my accumulator from ABS Power Brake and it's a perfect fit. I was on waiting list at Spinning Wheel since May. I'm in Pa and the price was about the same. 

 

Thanks for the info Kingsley. 

[waltmail]

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/wp-content/plugins/WooCommerce-car-filter/include/product_filter.php?make=12&model=135&syear=767

[Guest Kingsley]

On 9/29/2016 at 7:57 AM, Finfan1 said:

Yesterday I got my accumulator from ABS Power Brake and it's a perfect fit. I was on waiting list at Spinning Wheel since May. I'm in Pa and the price was about the same. 

 

Thanks for the info Kingsley. 

 

Thanks, appreciate your comments.  As I do not own a Reatta, and the accumulator that I purchased had served itself well for diagnostic purposes, , I spoke with Memo and he was quite willing to take it back.  Return shipping by UPS was only $16.32 and they refunded my $185.00 purchase price within three days.  Put their customer service together with a competitive purchase price for their accumulator and it makes a pretty good package.

 

Kingsley Baker

www.reattaspecialtyparts.com

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Kingsley
Clarification (see edit history)

[Ivan90]

Hello Barney

I am replying to this old post because I would very much appreciate if you would confirm which accumulator in the end worked or was the most suitable because I lost the thread at the end, I  know Kingleys was involved with the thread and discussion, was it the Hydac one P/N 3055720 or the one you posted the link to  that fitted the Porsche 911?

The Teves MK2 braking system was fitted by Car Manufacturers world wide, and it is as you well know  becoming a nightmare to source suitable and compatible accumulators at a sensible cost.

I currently own a 1989 Jaguar XJS with the Teves MK2 braking system and need to replace the original accumulator. I know the Jaguar replacement is  JLM 1907 which I believe is manufactured by Hydac and is available from Jaguar, and is equivalent to the old GM Delco P/N 25528382  but which is now obsolete.

Thank you

Ivan

[padgett]

Note: the Powermaster used an identical accumulator but was 770 psi. Make sure it can handle 2200-2400 psi like the Teves.

[Ivan90]

Hi Padgett

Thank you for your reply but which accumulator did he use?

I will post accumulator part numbers and approximate equivalents that I have discovered from my own investigations, this may fill in some gaps and may be of some help to you guys.

Cheers

Ivan

 

[2seater]

There is a Wabco unit out there also. I had some of that stuff bookmarked but that computer is having a nervous breakdown. The Wabco is priced well and is larger capacity than the standard, as is the Hydac. 

[Ivan90]

Hi 2seater

Thank you for your reply.

That is the one Iam actually thinking of using it is used on the Range Rover P38. Range Rover P/N is STC2784 Wabco P/N is  458 501 9212 and just as you say it is well priced, even over here it is well priced currently  being sold New for equivalent to $135  inc tax  £108. I may just contact Wabco to confirm what the Pre Charge pressure is it needs to be around  1000psi. I still have the original Teves Ate Accumulator on the car that has a max working pressur od 210 Bar (3000psi) stamped on it.

What is interesting is a SAAB parts specialist here in the UK is now  offering the Wabco  458-501 9212  as a replacement for the SAAB 4002267 and Delco 25528382 which are now both obsolete.

The Wabco is also equivalent to the DAF and PICCAR P/N 1504980.

The posing by KT Kromer on November 3 2019 shows a photo of the STC2784 Wabco accumulator, but the number 458 501 0200 number on the accumulator and the posting does not throw any thing up on the Wabco site, but P/N 458 501 9212 does and it gives the following equivalent STC2784, PICCAR and DAF 1504980 as previously mentioned here.

The other thing that needs to be considered is although the accumulator specification may be compatible its physical size may not be if the mounting space  around it is restricted.

 

SAAB 4002267 and Equivalent GM/ Delco 25528382 both now Obsolete.    Wabco P/N 458 501 9212  (RR STC 2784) being offered as an equivalent alternative

Jaguar JLM 1907  and Hydac  305 5702  both being offered as Alternative Equivalent to both SAAB 4002267 and GM / Delco 25528382  (expensive)

I think the Hydac is the one Jaguar supply in their nice green box with the leaper on it at a premium!!

I hope this is of interest and help, please feel free to comment and correct any errors!

Ivan

[2seater]

I wish I could sort out all of the information presented. In the Reatta's case, the standard accumulator is .25liter capacity and the Hydac that was found as a replacement has a .33liter capacity, a bonus in capacity, and the gas pressure charge is compatible. I have tested a few on my test rig and I had one Wabco that was loaned to me to test and it appears the pre-charge is slightly higher, maybe 1100 psi or so, also a good thing in my view. It is also .33liter capacity. All of the larger capacity accumulators will require some modification of the strut tower brace, usually just spacer washers under the mounting on the drivers side. I tried "squashing" the bar in my press but it is very tough with insufficient result alone. Incidentally, I have not looked into previous posts as the correct one but that STC2784 part number sounds very familiar as the correct one. 

Reatta working pressure is 2000psi for pump restart-2650psi pump off, and the instrument panel indicator lights are in the 1400-1500 range to turn the lights on and 1700-1800psi for lights off.

[Ivan90]

I have just been doing some reading up on the Jaguar spec accumulator from the XJS  and the Range Rover P38 Manual

 

Jaguar Accumulator Pre Charge is 84 Bar (1218psi)               Rover Rover  P38  SCT2784 Wabco 458 501 9212 Pre Charge 80 Bar (1160psi)

Jaguar operates at 140- 180 Bar                                                  SCT 2784 operates up to 170 Bar

 

The Hydac 3055720 is the one supplied by Jaguar as their replacement Accumulator.

So I think the Wabco should be a suitable replacement. It's half the cost of the official Jaguar one!

Cheers

Ivan

[padgett]

Pressure sound good. Same screw-on fitting ? 170 bar sounds good. Vendor ?

[Ivan90]

Hi Padgett

I believe the thread is  M14x1.5 so should be compatible  but will contact Wabco tomorrow and confirm everything. It's available for £108 approx $135 inc tax

Plus a  few others on a Jag Forum have fitted this accumulator so it should be good to go the. It's the  Wabco 4585019212 which is compatible with the Range Rover P38, STC2784

[padgett]

If thread is same then be good to have one for a spare, never know what will be available in a decade.

[Ivan90]

Normally I would be in favour of that I often buy parts off ebay for future use especially if it's a good deal!

The only issue with accumulators is they degrade over time even if they are unused in their box, that's  why it's not a good idea to buy NOS (New Old Stock)

That is why there is a manufactured date on them. I would not be happy to buy one that was manufactured  more than a few years ago! Ideally manufactured within the last 6 -12 months max.

[padgett]

Just like a battery.

[Digger914]

13 hours ago, Ivan90 said:

I have just been doing some reading up on the Jaguar spec accumulator from the XJS  and the Range Rover P38 Manual

 

Jaguar Accumulator Pre Charge is 84 Bar (1218psi)               Rover Rover  P38  SCT2784 Wabco 458 501 9212 Pre Charge 80 Bar (1160psi)

Jaguar operates at 140- 180 Bar                                                  SCT 2784 operates up to 170 Bar

 

The Hydac 3055720 is the one supplied by Jaguar as their replacement Accumulator.

So I think the Wabco should be a suitable replacement. It's half the cost of the official Jaguar one!

Cheers

Ivan

 

Haven't looked at accumulators for a while and didn't know that Jaguar had switched suppliers from Continental to Hydac. Can't hardly imagine paying the Jaguar price for the Hydac no matter how shinny the box is and it seems that the ATE W01331599229 is still available and thought you might enjoy this. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS894US894&biw=1366&bih=625&tbm=shop&ei=GqGvXvq1FZfctQbU4YOQBg&q=ate+brake+accumulator+W0133-1599229&oq=ate+brake+accumulator+W0133-1599229&gs_l=psy-ab-sh.12...0.0.0.27749.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab-sh..0.0.0....0.7PM12sbIMAw#spd=11480782778499053228412523790399&kid=412523790399&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6t33rbaZ6QIVCdbACh2DKQG9EAQYASABEgK9mfD_BwE

Edited May 4, 2020 by Digger914 (see edit history)

[padgett]

AutohausAZ  says "This Part Doesn't Fit Your 1988 Buick Reatta." Cross References: 1067601 340024 34331117398 34331157210 857612085 857612085A W01331608664 " Does this really fit ?

[Ivan90]

Hi Digger

Thank you for the links interesting reading. The ATE one looks to be a favourite of the the lot but the link says it's out of stock.

I have bitten the bullet this morning after contacting Wabco and confirming the spec and have ordered the Wabco 458 501 9212 which is equal to the STC2784 as fitted to the Range Rover P38. It's the closest to the Jaguar JML1907 without the Jag price premium for a nice shinny box!!

The Hydac prices in the US are much better than over here, but after shipping if that's even possible with some suppliers makes them unecconomical.