ricosan Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Hey Guys, I've been searching for about two years for a fuel pump for my '32 Marmon. I look at 5 or 10 pumps every day. I've found many that resemble my pump in every way except the arm. The pumps are always listed with "identifying" numbers. The numbers on my pump are " 5644 " at the neck where it is bolted to the engine and 855644 on the top. I don't know which "Type" number my pump is. Can anyone offer any insight into what these numbers mean? ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Just learning this my self . Understand the neck 4 digit is model overall , the 855xxx if it is on top of filter section is that component check under pump section for second long number . Sometimes maybe you have to get parts separate to build your own . tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Recently on eBay there have been a couple of AC fuel pump catalogues, one from 1928 and one from a bit later. They might be useful to you. Here is one there now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Fuel-Pumps-Catalog-1929-1963-Listings-Part-s-Cross-Reference-Drawings-MORE-/131928806869?hash=item1eb791d5d5:g:qy0AAOSwwbdWGmRj&vxp=mtr If you have an arm, perhaps worn, can you make another? Laser or very high pressure water cut? 855644 is the AC part number for the entire pump, which will include the top, bottom and arm. The arm will have a separate part number as will the top and bottom of the pump. My pump is a type B with arm 5501, top 855219, bottom 855228, pump part number 855471 (5471 on the boss above the mounting flange) and is type 449. This should all be in the type of catalogue shown above. My interchange books don't include '32 Marmon. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwellens Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 see this old link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 If you have made up a pump that looks right, what is the problem? Wrong arm? Can you put up an in-focus picture? Based on the photo in your 2015 thread referenced above, it is a Model B like mine. If so, MODEL B will be cast on the underside of the lower body. Many vehicles used that base with a different top. Does it have one spring or two inside acting on the arm linkage? If you have that, it is pretty right and you have enough to go with if you have the right arm. The tops also get warped by the bowl retaining screw being over-tightened so the bowl rocks on the seat and it doesn't "suck". That can be straightened, gradually and gently. I can give you instructions for that: I have just done it. You could probably straighten the warped flange in the same way, with great care. If you want instructions on disassembly and repair, I can copy MoToR's Manual pages on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Thanks for the information Guys. hwellens: Because the flange on my 5644 pump had broken, my mechanic was able to take the arm from my original pump (5644) and install it on another used case. I'm affraid I don't know the numbers on the case he used. He told me I needed to find another fuel pump because he wasn't sure how reliable this pump would be. He said I should have a spare to take on long trips that I have planned. Spinny: That has been my plan. Replace the arm in a serviceable case. My problem is that I'm not sure case to get. What do I need to look for in a case that will produce the amount of fuel I'll need to run at highway speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 If you can find a number somehow, somewhere, check with this guy at ebay >>> http://stores.ebay.com/crwautoparts/ We bought a rebuilt fuel/vacuum pump from him for a '48 Olds. It not only looked new but works like new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 This fellow could probably help you. houghton@classicpreservation.com He rebuilds vintage pumps so they can work well with our enhanced fuels. Very reasonable and quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Ricosan, so the pump that was on the car is the correct one. I am suspicious of the arm because it has bent and broken the original base and you need a spacer for the replacement. It sounds as though it is too long. Can you put up in-focus photos of your correct pump from above and from below? Can you show us a pump that looks like your correct pump? Look at the underside of the base you have replaced (the photo in your other thread of the base with broken mounting flange). Look at the rounded part on both sides. Does it show Model B cast into the surface. Any base like that might fit. Look for the size of the arm pin, the shape of it where the arm goes in etc. The pump must be the same. There are one or two variations. The piece that screws onto that base has three screws and usually has 855228 cast into it. This one is a model B type 419 and fits Chrysler and Plymouth as stated. The body (top #855219 and bottom #855228) are the same as mine (type 449) but the arm is different. This is supposedly the same as type 411. The bottom of this is probably the same as yours. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371728938463?ul_noapp=true Model B pumps all have this base. Only the top and arm changes, and the type of one-way valves (under the hexagon nuts on top). I may have more information after club night on Monday. There are old AC catalogues in the library. About running out of puff at 55 mph. Has the fuel line been flattened a bit anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 Hey Guys, We got hit dead on by hurricane Hermine. Although it was only a catagory 1 storm, it knocked trees down all over town. It has been a week and some people in town still have no electricity. Cahartley and Tinindian: Thanks for the adresses. Spinney: This is the pump that was on the car when I purchased the car about 3 years ago. Unfortunately my car is not in my garage and checking, I can't find any pictures of the new pump. I would go out right now if I could and take some pics but the car is 300 miles away at a restoration shop in St. Petersburg. Looking through my photos I came across this other picture of the arm. It looks like the numbers 5051 re stamped into the side. I found some pictures of the pump that was replaced but I am having some difficulty uploading them. The car is equipped with an electric fuel pump as a back-up and after 55mph I have to switch it on to supply enough fuel to the engine. ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 Trying to get another photograph up. Here is the side view of the "original" fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I have found amongst the ref's I have grabbed off the www. a line that says the 1932 Marmon 8-125 had an AC B-855644 fuel pump. The 16, from '31-'33, had a D-856055. The 88 of 1931 had a B-855644. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 Thanks Spinney so my broken pump 855644 was the correct pump for my car. This is the number I've been searching for but with no luck. I've seen a lot of cases that have the right bolt pattern for attaching to my engine and look just like my pump. I get a bottom that looks just like my pump combined with a top that looks like my pump and change out the arm. How do I figure out if I am getting the right one way valve under the hex nut and if not are these available? ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 The one way valve consists of four pieces: the brass top (nut), a narrow washer under it, a spring inside and a little flat piece of something. I don't know, but I would think you should have two flat top brass nut one way valves. The dome top valve has the same number of pieces; I don't know the benefit of the dome top. There seem to be two sizes of brass nut, just use the ones with it or that look the same if you want to replace damaged nuts. They don't wear out much so just use the best nuts you can that fit. Just be careful with the bowl clamp. Don't tighten it too much or you will deform the top and it will not seal on the bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 That is a typical AC type B pump , fuel straight in and straight out. Have a machinist make a new arm , put in a kit ( Hal Houghton above) and you are done. Forget about the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Thanks Guys, This is a lot of information but it's been very helpful. I feel more confident that I can find the right case. Now it's back to the chase looking for a descent case that will fit my setup. ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 I had hoped the AC fuel pump catalogue in the car club library might give more information. It was a 1960 edition and didn't even reference Marmon. It gave my 1930 pump number but the listing of parts making up each pump did not cover any before 856000. So the arm you have, 5051, may be correct and may not be. It may be the reason the old pump was damaged and you have to put a spacer under the replacement, i.e. it is too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Here is one on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/371735307560?item=371735307560&viewitem=&vxp=mtr Install a kit and the correct arm and you are ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Spinney: I don't know why we ended up having to use a spacer on the replacement pump. The 855644 pump didn't use a spacer. My mechanic invites his customers to grab a wrench and become involved with the work on our their cars. Although I've taken advantage of this from my first visit, I was not there for the fuel pump repair. The arm appears to be the one factor that has to be absolutely on the money for it to fit properly. I'll start checking with some of the vintage auto parts stores. If they don't have it, they may have the numbers. Curti: Thanks for the heads up on the EBAY fuel pump. I'm going to look at it closely. ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 The 1948 AC Delco catalogue on eBay at the moment MAY have the info you need about arm number to confirm the arm you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted September 15, 2016 Author Share Posted September 15, 2016 I haven't had any luck with the vintage/antique car parts people. They didn't have a 855644 but offered to build one. Don't know where they would get the arm. I looked at the 1929 - 1952 AC rebuilt fuel pumps offered for $14.95 on EBAY. I wrote to the seller. That particular one didn't offer anything on the Marmon. I'm waiting to hear back from the seller of a 1929 -1948 AC fuel pump catalog. Thanks for the help. ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 On 16/09/2016 at 1:57 AM, ricosan said: I haven't had any luck with the vintage/antique car parts people. They didn't have a 855644 but offered to build one. Don't know where they would get the arm. Where did you get to on this? Just wondering, if you have an adapter on (i.e. a thick gasket) under the pump, maybe the arm stroke is too short and it doesn't pump enough. I have looked at many rebuild kits at various locations on the www. Pretty much none of them offer the arm. The main items needed are the diaphragm for your ethanol fuel and perhaps the one way valves and gasket (I make my own gaskets). The pump you showed looks like one that fits several makes, apart from the arm. I think the top is 855261, fuel straight in-straight out? Studebaker used that top, amoung others. That Model B base has top-bottom holding screws on each side of the number pad at the top of the mounting flange; the other variety has one in the middle of that number pad. So if you can find a good Model B bottom and an 855261 top (keep an eye on EBay?) and your original arm, you should be good to go. And it will look right to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricosan Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 Thanks Spinney, I'll be on the lookout for an 855261. I can always take the arm from the pump I am using now. ricosan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clane422 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I know this is probaly a dead thread but do you still need tgis fuel pump i have a nos one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Clane422 said: I know this is probaly a dead thread but do you still need tgis fuel pump i have a nos one. Send a P.M. @ricosanlast visited on July 5 (hover over his userid to see this). The envelope in that popup is a PM as is the envelope at the top right of the page. Edited July 27, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian PB Kid Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Hey All, I ran across this post while researching the fuel pump that came off my 32 Plymouth PB, from what I can understand that it's a "B" type. The United motors book in the 1934 Plymouth parts book doesn't list a type B for the PB. The number in the book is 1521200 which is described as a type "P" which I've been told that this changes up to an AC 450 type. Looking at the pictures in the parts book there is a difference in the lower housings and arm. My question is, did the 1521200... AC450 supersede to the "B" type. TIA Dave STAY SAFE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfcarguy Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) what is the usage on this one ? 303 42076 tia Edited September 9, 2023 by kfcarguy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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