MAGNETO RECHARGING

[playswithbrass]

Does the armature in a shuttle type low tension mag or for that matter a high tension mag need to be removed in order to recharge the magnets?

I know the armature acts as a keeper but because it does not touch the magnets I am wondering about being able to not remove the armature when recharging.

thank you Peter

[Dandy Dave]

I've charged magnets before. I usually take them off if I can although I have read it is not nessacary. Best to have a compass handy as you can reverse the polarity in the charging process without knowing it. And don't set the compass to close to the charger. Had a friend with a mag a number of years ago that he could not make work. It had two or three magnets on it and at least one of them was installed backward. It only took a few seconds with a compass to figure that one out. Dandy Dave!  

[Kirk]

The company we use here in Virginia is The Brillman Co.  Phone 540 477 4112 or a Brillman.com  His name is John.  Does good mag work.  Kirk

[Ivan Saxton]

I thought I should re-check what I think I know, and rather than dig out Dykes, I took the lazy way and entered   "Re-magnetise Magneto magnets" into Google.  It is all there for you to do it yourself;  and there is also good instructions to wind your own simple magnet re-charger.

It is worth repeating here that there is a way of re-charging the flywheel magnets of a T-Ford with minimal time and effort.  Bill Orde has been one of my antique car friends for over 50 years. he started as an auto-electrical apprentice in what was considered a rural city here; and he worked for the same man for several decades.  When a T Ford owner, (whether he was a farmer from out of town, or a town resident)  decided his car was getting harder to start because the spark was weak, he would book in for re-charging, and be instructed to bring the car in first thing in the morning, and be promised that the big job would be finished late that afternoon.  It was really a scam, but maximum profit was considered good business;  and the boss would never order one of his workers to dismantle the engine for re-charging when he could charge for seven or eight hours labour, yet charge the magnets perfectly  by flicking a current through the field coils with the flywheel magnets in the correct position.  I can still check the specifics if you want to know, because Bill is still with us, though now too unroadworthy to work on cars anymore. 

[playswithbrass]

Ivan I have googled the subject but have not been able to find out , do you have to remove the armature? What I have is a Splitdorf model D ,I know from past experience that removing the zinc

die cast endplates which are in perfect condition at present time will not be in good shape when removed.Would you be kind enough to ask your friend Bill about this matter.

 

[Ivan Saxton]

Can you post definitive photos  of your magneto so I can see what you are dealing with.  I have an idea that they made the ones branded "Aero" and "Dixie"  ( ? spellings ) were made by Splitdorf  in the early 1920s, and these had diecast end plates that were not a problem.   I think others were of conventional pattern.   If the magnets are covered by three brass covers,  one on each side, and one over the top lengthwise, you probably have a polar inductor type similar to the original Dixie mag of my Roamer Duesenberg, and the identical Aero mag.  On these the magnets pull off the sides when you remove the covers.  The magnets are notched at the bottom on tehe inside for clearance, and are not attached by screws.  Jim Lunney of the Veteran car Club here was an old time auto electrician in Melbourne who is no longer with us.  He had several coils re-wound for me, and the magneto of the Roamer would throw a most impressive spark.  But then after a little running it would develop a chronic impairment of the zeal, and would not spark at all.  So I have used a good conventional Simms mag while I have given visitors joy rides in the un-finished car; and I have not got around to determining how the high voltage output was tracking to earth, and this is of course pre-requisite to overcoming the problem.   Everyone told me way back that the Dixie and Aero mags were unreliable, but I am confident that the fault can be remedied, and that they should give good reliable service because the design has advantages.

The town were Bill lives is about 3 hours drive from here; and I shall have to ring around to get a new phone number.  He used to live about 20 miles out and was still able to drive though he was using a walking frame;  but His wife now has problems that were beyond his strength to cope with;  so they were moving to a situation of reliable assistance to both of them.  When you get phots up I will have  a look then speak to him.

[playswithbrass]

As requested the mag in the left picture is a 1909 Splitdorf model D the mag in the right is a 1911 model D

[playswithbrass]

Well the left picture is now the top picture etc.Still getting the hang of this modern stuff.In the now lower picture in the background is a Briggs mag, require magnets for it and parts if anyone has anything?

[Ivan Saxton]

It is obviously nothing like the Aero/Dixie type,  of which I think there may have been some branded Splitdorf;  but I may be wrong.  Clearly you just need to remove the screws only to remove the magnets, which need nothing more than that to hold them in place.   When I saw Jim Lunney working on magnetos he used a small pressure from his press to make sure the screw driver did not slip and burr the slot in the screw heads.

There is a bit about the Splitdorf D low tension magneto in the copy of Dykes I was able to access,  but you would need to consult a much earlier edition .   There was nothing specific about re-charging the magnets in it.

The troubles with zinc diecasting generally related to whether there was impurity of lead and cadmium in the zinc. If a diecast item of that age is still good, it may have been pure material.    The diecast cam follower bodies   of the 16 valve 4 cylinder T head Stutz engines can be the devil to remove from the crankcase.  We have made new ones from new castings of cast iron.                    

[playswithbrass]

Ivan this may seem a bit strange but I would rather not remove the magnets.The old timer since passed away that taught me all I know and sadly not all he knew about mags,was able to show me how

charging the magnets then putting them on the mag you would lose abut 30 % of the charge,however if you remove the armature and place the mag on the charger building up the sides with steel blocks 

charging the mag then replacing the armature while the mag is still on the charger you retain a full charge.Hence my problem end plates may break to remove armature,so is it possible to charge with the

armature left in.I do not want to try without knowing if I may damage the armature or not by leaving in

[imnuts4fords@comcast.net]

Playswithbrass, It is best to remove the magnets and charge each individual magnet.  I have a small machine that was built to recharge the magnets from magnetos.  It works great with a 12 volt battery.  I test the magnet first by pulling down on a scale until the magnet lets go.  Then recharge it and re-test it.  Mark the magnets before you remove them so you will get them back correctly.  What are you going to do with the splitdorf mags?  Might one be available?

[playswithbrass]

The mags are for my 09 E.M.F. one on the car one spare.

imnuts4fords I understand what you are doing,however read the part of the post about loosing 30 % when you take the magnet off the charger to put back onto the mag.On my DU4 mags I aways charge them with the armature removed and the complete mag on my charger.

[Spinneyhill]

I asked the internet about "magneto magnets recharging" and got this:

http://www.gasenginemagazine.com/gas-engines/recharging-magneto-magnets.aspx?PageId=2#ArticleContent

 

It looks to be what you want. Basically, do not remove the magnets, they lose magnetism. They also lose charge when you remove them from the charger to put them back in the magneto.

 

If you remove the armature, put a keeper across the magnets to preserve the magnetism.

 

Use a properly designed magnet recharger with sufficient energy to do it properly. Anything with insufficient energy can weaken the magnets.

 

BTW, Google is the pits. I use DuckDuckGo. It does not track you, nor does it sort the results, nor does it have advertising. The hit here was the first.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Ivan Saxton]

I managed to speak to Bill Orde.   He started as an apprentice with an old time auto electrician,  Which means that he has had hands-on involvement with magnetos, for his own cars and in helping other antique car owners for  over 70 years;  Including membership of the Veteran Car Club here in Victoria ( which would probably be around 60 years.)    The Veteran Car Club here deals with cars made until the end of 1918.   Always use a decent iron or mild steel keeper across the pole of a magnet while it is not on the magneto and not on the poles of the charger.  Always mark the correct position of your manets so they go back where they were;  and use a compass to make sure they go on the charger in the right direction.   What you may loose will be miniscule unless the steel of the magnets is rubbish,  and you can count that out.   If a magneto will throw a spark over 3/8 of an inch long (without a safety gap),  you can be sure it will throw a fat spark across the 18 thou spark plug points gap under working compression.  Magnets are probably the least likely cause of magneto trouble.  Most likely troubles are tracking across surface of old insulating material,  breakdown or deficiency of an original capacitor,  and perished insulating varnish of an old coil that has not been re-wound,  that melts when hot and solidifies between the  fixed pole pieces and the armature poles.   T model flywheel magnets can be re-charged in situ,  but you have to know what you are doing.

[playswithbrass]

Thanks for all your help Pete