rodneybeauchamp

Intermittent turn signal indication at dashboard

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Well, now that we can drive it, a few things come to light ( or in this case, only sometimes)

 

RHS dashboard indicator lamp is intermittent, where as LHS works as it should. Appears that front and rear lamps are flashing on both sides as I can hear the flasher can and can see at night they work., as do the fancy cornering lamps.

 

Am going to put some WD40 spray on the switch and check it is secure.

 

Have seen previous posts on broken cables and incorrect adjustment at the switch and don't look forward to pulling that apart ( it is a tilt steering wheel) to repair, however I will take the advice to remove the spring on the switch.

 

So happy to hear thoughts of those who have been there!

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I'm not aware of issues which may relate specifically to 1st gen Riviera turn signal switches, but I have experienced similar behavior with other 60s - 70s GM cars.  I have noticed that manipulating the turn signal stalk while the signal is operating can cause intermittent dash indicator operation.  Based on that, my hunch is that the issue is with the turn signal switch.  If you can make the problem come and go by fiddling with the switch lever then I'd say that's your culprit.  If it's a dirty contact, then spraying it with WD-40 (or electrical contact cleaner) and exercising the switch may help.

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Thanks for your help, gave it a spray the other evening and worked it around a few times,  checked switch was not loose. When out tonight, all worked as it should. Mechanic in a spray can, like to see more of that.

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Excellent -- glad to hear that it was a simple fix! ;) Just one of the gazillion things that WD-40 can do...

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On 5/22/2016 at 7:31 AM, rodneybeauchamp said:

Well, now that we can drive it, a few things come to light ( or in this case, only sometimes)

 

RHS dashboard indicator lamp is intermittent, where as LHS works as it should. Appears that front and rear lamps are flashing on both sides as I can hear the flasher can and can see at night they work., as do the fancy cornering lamps.

 

Am going to put some WD40 spray on the switch and check it is secure.

 

Have seen previous posts on broken cables and incorrect adjustment at the switch and don't look forward to pulling that apart ( it is a tilt steering wheel) to repair, however I will take the advice to remove the spring on the switch.

 

So happy to hear thoughts of those who have been there!

Rodney, I'm struggling with the turn signal switch on my 63 Buick Riviera. My Left hand ( Drivers side in the USA ) rear tail light signal does not flash and the tail light is off and on intermittently. I'll try some WD 40 and see if that helps. Oh, I did replace the bulb socket in the left hand tail light sense thinking a bad connection was the problem.

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Hi Bob,

if the tail lamp is intermittent as well as turn signal not working, it may well be a couple of things.

 

When trouble shooting, first would be to check that the globe does work on both filaments at the battery or substitute with a known working globe ( sometimes even new ones don't work 😡 )

 

Can you check that you have got 100% earthing at the globe socket, even if that meant adding a wire to the lamp or socket. Once you know that is ok, you can use a test light to confirm you have power to the lamp, both continuous for the tail lamp and flashing for turn signal. ( so many things on my 63 were not working because of corrosion at the terminals, nothing else 😡 )

 

If no power coming through, then suggest it could be a switch or wiring issue. I'm lucky as I did not need to explore that with anything else than WD40. 👌

 

If front turn signal is working ok then it is possibly a wiring/earth issue.

 

There is a switch adjustment procedure in the manual, but hope all it needs is a squirt😊

 

Hope this helps,

Rodney

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8 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Rodney, I'm struggling with the turn signal switch on my 63 Buick Riviera. My Left hand ( Drivers side in the USA ) rear tail light signal does not flash and the tail light is off and on intermittently. I'll try some WD 40 and see if that helps. Oh, I did replace the bulb socket in the left hand tail light sense thinking a bad connection was the problem.

RRB-

You have the classic symptoms of a broken turn signal switch cable outer sheath.

 

Look at the end by the switch.  Remove the steering wheel and look at the actuator end.

 

Let me know which end is broken and I can help you fix it.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

RRB-

You have the classic symptoms of a broken turn signal switch cable outer sheath.

 

Look at the end by the switch.  Remove the steering wheel and look at the actuator end.

 

Let me know which end is broken and I can help you fix it.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, KongaMan said:

WD-40 is not a fix.  For anything.

True, but WD-40 is really good for mosquito bites. :-)

Red Riviera Bob

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7 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

RRB-

You have the classic symptoms of a broken turn signal switch cable outer sheath.

 

Look at the end by the switch.  Remove the steering wheel and look at the actuator end.

 

Let me know which end is broken and I can help you fix it.

 

 

Jim. thank you for your great initiative to help a struggling individual fix his "lights". Fortunately, I have an original copy of the 63  Chassis Service Manual. ( I got the manual rebound with a spiral plastic coated cable with transparent cover for front and back ) I am studying the manual now as I have to methodically and carefully plan this particular repair. I'm reading and studying the manual in the appropriate section so I can get my tools and mind set to do this operation. I've been "up under" the dash trying to adjust the signal switch by movement on the mast with some luck, but no final repair. Unfortunately, arthritis in my lower back, advancing age, and physical size make it a real challenge getting under the dash. I might try putting my legs over the back of drivers seat and getting in that way, if I have to go under the dash again.

I'm on page 10-55 figure 10-64 and have Id'd the signal switch rod. I have also viewed Fig. 10-65 and ID'd the actuating rod in the mast.

In the past when I've been under the dash viewing and listening to the turn signal switch I can hear and see the "switch" engaging for the right hand signal working. When I move the  the turn signal lever for left hand I can see a shiny silver pin move up and down the mast for either left or right, but only hear it engage for the right turn signal.

Please let me observe the actuator with the steering wheel removed and I'll get back to you via your e-mail or this forum ( assuming I can navigate back ) and advise the outcome. Again, Many thanks for your support.

Red Riviera Bob

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10 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

Hi Bob,

if the tail lamp is intermittent as well as turn signal not working, it may well be a couple of things.

 

When trouble shooting, first would be to check that the globe does work on both filaments at the battery or substitute with a known working globe ( sometimes even new ones don't work 😡 )

 

Can you check that you have got 100% earthing at the globe socket, even if that meant adding a wire to the lamp or socket. Once you know that is ok, you can use a test light to confirm you have power to the lamp, both continuous for the tail lamp and flashing for turn signal. ( so many things on my 63 were not working because of corrosion at the terminals, nothing else 😡 )

 

If no power coming through, then suggest it could be a switch or wiring issue. I'm lucky as I did not need to explore that with anything else than WD40. 👌

 

If front turn signal is working ok then it is possibly a wiring/earth issue.

 

There is a switch adjustment procedure in the manual, but hope all it needs is a squirt😊

 

Hope this helps,

Rodney

Rodney, so many things to learn in the automotive mechanical and electrical business. I learned to read and write at the University of Maryland Baltimore County so I could earn a living as a "hawker" selling specialized business machines for the mailing/postal and parcel handling industry in the US. I could have spent my time better learning automotive repair as opposed to learning the French language, which I know very little.

Coupled with little knowledge and experience of auto repair my space relations skills are not the best. When I'm in yoga position trying to loosen a rusted nut while standing on my head I have to concentrate on which way to the turn the spanner ( wrench )!

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16 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Jim. thank you for your great initiative to help a struggling individual fix his "lights". Fortunately, I have an original copy of the 63  Chassis Service Manual. ( I got the manual rebound with a spiral plastic coated cable with transparent cover for front and back ) I am studying the manual now as I have to methodically and carefully plan this particular repair. I'm reading and studying the manual in the appropriate section so I can get my tools and mind set to do this operation. I've been "up under" the dash trying to adjust the signal switch by movement on the mast with some luck, but no final repair. Unfortunately, arthritis in my lower back, advancing age, and physical size make it a real challenge getting under the dash. I might try putting my legs over the back of drivers seat and getting in that way, if I have to go under the dash again.

I'm on page 10-55 figure 10-64 and have Id'd the signal switch rod. I have also viewed Fig. 10-65 and ID'd the actuating rod in the mast.

In the past when I've been under the dash viewing and listening to the turn signal switch I can hear and see the "switch" engaging for the right hand signal working. When I move the  the turn signal lever for left hand I can see a shiny silver pin move up and down the mast for either left or right, but only hear it engage for the right turn signal.

Please let me observe the actuator with the steering wheel removed and I'll get back to you via your e-mail or this forum ( assuming I can navigate back ) and advise the outcome. Again, Many thanks for your support.

Red Riviera Bob

 

You have a tilt column, correct?  You will find the instructions in the shop manual for adjusting the turn signal switch to be incorrect for a tilt wheel.  They are correct for a fixed wheel.

 

I understand how it is difficult to get under the instrument panel.  You don't need to, really.

 

Remove the trim piece from the underside of the column to expose the turn signal actuator cable.  Trace it down to the switch.  Look at the switch with a light.   As you actuate the turn signal lever, you should see the wire moving the black switch pin "up and down" the column for each turn direction.

 

I have found that the signals work if you lower the tilt wheel.  Try different positions down.  Try holding the sheath against the column with your fingers while actuating the turn signal lever.  That helps compensate for a broken sheath up at the actuating end of the cable.

 

If you ever get under there to remove the switch, remove the long coil spring on the turn signal switch.  You don't need it, and the spring breaks the cable.

 

What is the build date code on your car, or the FB number from the data plate above the booster?

 

 

 

 

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On 7/17/2017 at 0:38 PM, Red Riviera Bob said:

Rodney, I'm struggling with the turn signal switch on my 63 Buick Riviera. My Left hand ( Drivers side in the USA ) rear tail light signal does not flash and the tail light is off and on intermittently. I'll try some WD 40 and see if that helps. Oh, I did replace the bulb socket in the left hand tail light sense thinking a bad connection was the problem.

It is very common for a bad turn signal switch, or a bad tilt wheel cable not allowing a good turn signal switch to return to a neutral position, to cause a brake or turn signal light problem but an intermittent taillight is another issue. Sounds like a bad ground which could very well be the cause of all 3 issues. No offense meant toward WD-40,

  Tom Mooney

Edited by 1965rivgs (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

You have a tilt column, correct?  You will find the instructions in the shop manual for adjusting the turn signal switch to be incorrect for a tilt wheel.  They are correct for a fixed wheel.

 

I understand how it is difficult to get under the instrument panel.  You don't need to, really.

 

Remove the trim piece from the underside of the column to expose the turn signal actuator cable.  Trace it down to the switch.  Look at the switch with a light.   As you actuate the turn signal lever, you should see the wire moving the black switch pin "up and down" the column for each turn direction.

 

I have found that the signals work if you lower the tilt wheel.  Try different positions down.  Try holding the sheath against the column with your fingers while actuating the turn signal lever.  That helps compensate for a broken sheath up at the actuating end of the cable.

 

If you ever get under there to remove the switch, remove the long coil spring on the turn signal switch.  You don't need it, and the spring breaks the cable.

 

What is the build date code on your car, or the FB number from the data plate above the booster?

 

 

 

 

Jim, I do have a tilt steering wheel. I can't get at the info for the build date this minute, but I'll get it later this morning. I have tried lowering the tilt wheel WITHOUT holding the sheath against the column. I will try holding the sheath against the column and see what happens when I actuate the turn signal lever. I can remove the coil spring that breaks the cable.

Another piece of information you might need to know. Apparently there is a bolt/screw that holds the turn signal switch in particular positions on the mast/column. It appears the screw/bolt has been sheared off. Previous attempts by prior owners have used cable ties to secure the switch in position on the mast. The bracket the turn signal switch is mounted on stays in one place with the cable ties. ( Ive since purchased a right angle drill motor in hopes of tapping/extracting the broken screw/bolt that holds the switch mount in place) The switch can move up and down the switch mount. Now, I've held the turn signal switch in different positions along the mast as I tested the turn signal, but no luck.

I've been struggling with this problem for a year now because a new switch is not to be easily located. I have cornering lights and from what I'v e read I need a turn signal switch with 9 pins. I bought a used switch for a 63 with tilt, but the switch has only 6 pins.

In summary, I'll get the info regarding the build date. Do your suggested work to see if there is the cure. Additionally, Tom Mooney added that I might have a bad ground wire because of the intermittent tail light problem. I'll check out the ground wire as well.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

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4 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Jim, I do have a tilt steering wheel. I can't get at the info for the build date this minute, but I'll get it later this morning. I have tried lowering the tilt wheel WITHOUT holding the sheath against the column. I will try holding the sheath against the column and see what happens when I actuate the turn signal lever. I can remove the coil spring that breaks the cable.

Another piece of information you might need to know. Apparently there is a bolt/screw that holds the turn signal switch in particular positions on the mast/column. It appears the screw/bolt has been sheared off. Previous attempts by prior owners have used cable ties to secure the switch in position on the mast. The bracket the turn signal switch is mounted on stays in one place with the cable ties. ( Ive since purchased a right angle drill motor in hopes of tapping/extracting the broken screw/bolt that holds the switch mount in place) The switch can move up and down the switch mount. Now, I've held the turn signal switch in different positions along the mast as I tested the turn signal, but no luck.

I've been struggling with this problem for a year now because a new switch is not to be easily located. I have cornering lights and from what I'v e read I need a turn signal switch with 9 pins. I bought a used switch for a 63 with tilt, but the switch has only 6 pins.

In summary, I'll get the info regarding the build date. Do your suggested work to see if there is the cure. Additionally, Tom Mooney added that I might have a bad ground wire because of the intermittent tail light problem. I'll check out the ground wire as well.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

Not a ground wire as there is no dedicated ground wire in the rear harness. The light sockets ground thru their bases into the turn signal housing. Fix the taillight issue first and move on to the turn/brake light issue next if it still exists.

  Tom

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1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

Not a ground wire as there is no dedicated ground wire in the rear harness. The light sockets ground thru their bases into the turn signal housing. Fix the taillight issue first and move on to the turn/brake light issue next if it still exists.

  Tom

I replaced the problem tail light with a new socket that grounds on the metal box housing that holds the socket and bulb with intermittent lighting. I don't know what to do next. Thank you again.

Red Riviera Bob

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5 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Jim, I do have a tilt steering wheel. I can't get at the info for the build date this minute, but I'll get it later this morning. I have tried lowering the tilt wheel WITHOUT holding the sheath against the column. I will try holding the sheath against the column and see what happens when I actuate the turn signal lever. I can remove the coil spring that breaks the cable.

Another piece of information you might need to know. Apparently there is a bolt/screw that holds the turn signal switch in particular positions on the mast/column. It appears the screw/bolt has been sheared off. Previous attempts by prior owners have used cable ties to secure the switch in position on the mast. The bracket the turn signal switch is mounted on stays in one place with the cable ties. ( Ive since purchased a right angle drill motor in hopes of tapping/extracting the broken screw/bolt that holds the switch mount in place) The switch can move up and down the switch mount. Now, I've held the turn signal switch in different positions along the mast as I tested the turn signal, but no luck.

I've been struggling with this problem for a year now because a new switch is not to be easily located. I have cornering lights and from what I'v e read I need a turn signal switch with 9 pins. I bought a used switch for a 63 with tilt, but the switch has only 6 pins.

In summary, I'll get the info regarding the build date. Do your suggested work to see if there is the cure. Additionally, Tom Mooney added that I might have a bad ground wire because of the intermittent tail light problem. I'll check out the ground wire as well.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

Good Morning, the FB data are "FB 33321". I took off the mast/column covers and you suggested. I tried holding the sheath steady against the mast/column as I moved the turn signal lever. I have the right signal. The best I could do for the left signal was a constant green light. The left signal would not blink, buy the left signal light on the dash did light. I moved the tilt wheel up and down numerous times with not much luck other than one position that gave me the right hand signal to blink.

BTW, the signal lever/switch does not return automatically after engaging the lever for right or left turn. To summarize, I have three problems:

1. Left signal won't blink, but lights-at least for a while

2.Intermittent tail light

3.Turn signal lever does not return automatically after a left or right hand turn.

Many thanks,

Bob

 

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9 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Good Morning, the FB data are "FB 33321". I took off the mast/column covers and you suggested. I tried holding the sheath steady against the mast/column as I moved the turn signal lever. I have the right signal. The best I could do for the left signal was a constant green light. The left signal would not blink, buy the left signal light on the dash did light. I moved the tilt wheel up and down numerous times with not much luck other than one position that gave me the right hand signal to blink.

BTW, the signal lever/switch does not return automatically after engaging the lever for right or left turn. To summarize, I have three problems:

1. Left signal won't blink, but lights-at least for a while

2.Intermittent tail light

3.Turn signal lever does not return automatically after a left or right hand turn.

Many thanks,

Bob

 

OK, so if you have good ground at the socket and the other tail is working you must be losing the tail voltage to the intermittent tail between where it splits off and the problem socket. I dont have access to a schematic as I am out of town but I`m sure Buick splits the tail light circuit between left and right somewhere in the rear harness. Look for black tape, previous repairs like butt splices, etc...at this point I would be troubleshooting with a quality test light or a DVOM and not trusting that I have a good ground because I have replaced the socket. Just because a part is "new" doesnt mean it is doing what it is supposed to do or that there is not a flaw in installation.

  Tom

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I always had a lot of problems with my signal lights being dim or not flashing. The socket in the taillight housing doesn't look like it was designed for 50 years, especially the ground.

 

I grounded mine to the body through the taillight housing studs. They are bright and they blink now.

I don't expect that crappy little cable operated switch to ever work really well, and after 40 years I always double check the level for return after a turn.

 

My replacement socket had a metal ground tab. I just came in from the back side and soldered a wire to it and tied them together.

Bernie

 

061001.jpg.e81576bcfd9ab3ba2b7fe3031bed6aaa.jpg063001.thumb.jpg.dea340a82c1c1a06cabe7670ceb62f78.jpg

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12 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

OK, so if you have good ground at the socket and the other tail is working you must be losing the tail voltage to the intermittent tail between where it splits off and the problem socket. I dont have access to a schematic as I am out of town but I`m sure Buick splits the tail light circuit between left and right somewhere in the rear harness. Look for black tape, previous repairs like butt splices, etc...at this point I would be troubleshooting with a quality test light or a DVOM and not trusting that I have a good ground because I have replaced the socket. Just because a part is "new" doesnt mean it is doing what it is supposed to do or that there is not a flaw in installation.

  Tom

Tom, FlatTop60 Bernie, gave some pics of better grounding he did with his socket and tail light bracket on his 64. I know the criticality of electrical connections being clean and solid. Thank you.

 

9 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I always had a lot of problems with my signal lights being dim or not flashing. The socket in the taillight housing doesn't look like it was designed for 50 years, especially the ground.

 

I grounded mine to the body through the taillight housing studs. They are bright and they blink now.

I don't expect that crappy little cable operated switch to ever work really well, and after 40 years I always double check the level for return after a turn.

 

My replacement socket had a metal ground tab. I just came in from the back side and soldered a wire to it and tied them together.

Bernie

 

061001.jpg.e81576bcfd9ab3ba2b7fe3031bed6aaa.jpg063001.thumb.jpg.dea340a82c1c1a06cabe7670ceb62f78.jpg

Bernie, it appears I have the same color bulb socket and wires you have on your socket! I'll ground it like you have in the picture. I can see the yellow ground wire coming out of the tail light housing to the tail light bracket bolt terminating with a blue color around the ground. It appears a second blue ground wire terminal on the same bracket bolt goes else where. Where might the second ground wire from the bracket bolt being going? Thank you very much. Bob

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19 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

OK, so if you have good ground at the socket and the other tail is working you must be losing the tail voltage to the intermittent tail between where it splits off and the problem socket. I dont have access to a schematic as I am out of town but I`m sure Buick splits the tail light circuit between left and right somewhere in the rear harness. Look for black tape, previous repairs like butt splices, etc...at this point I would be troubleshooting with a quality test light or a DVOM and not trusting that I have a good ground because I have replaced the socket. Just because a part is "new" doesnt mean it is doing what it is supposed to do or that there is not a flaw in installation.

  Tom

Tom, as aside... what kind of wheels do you have on your red riviera in your picture? Are they chrome wheels with 3 prong knock off?

Thank you

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20 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

OK, so if you have good ground at the socket and the other tail is working you must be losing the tail voltage to the intermittent tail between where it splits off and the problem socket. I dont have access to a schematic as I am out of town but I`m sure Buick splits the tail light circuit between left and right somewhere in the rear harness. Look for black tape, previous repairs like butt splices, etc...at this point I would be troubleshooting with a quality test light or a DVOM and not trusting that I have a good ground because I have replaced the socket. Just because a part is "new" doesnt mean it is doing what it is supposed to do or that there is not a flaw in installation.

  Tom

Tom, I'm on it the grounding item as you have suggested. Unfortunately, I do not know electric basics- like testing for open circuits with a test light. Don't know how- just never learned the how to use a test light. I have one, but not sure how to use it. Trust me, I have some long time friends will help me, that are auto/truck/heavy equipment mechanics that will come and help AFTER I've exhausted all that I know. Thanks again.Bob

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3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I always had a lot of problems with my signal lights being dim or not flashing. The socket in the taillight housing doesn't look like it was designed for 50 years, especially the ground.

 

I grounded mine to the body through the taillight housing studs. They are bright and they blink now.

I don't expect that crappy little cable operated switch to ever work really well, and after 40 years I always double check the level for return after a turn.

 

My replacement socket had a metal ground tab. I just came in from the back side and soldered a wire to it and tied them together.

Bernie

 

061001.jpg.e81576bcfd9ab3ba2b7fe3031bed6aaa.jpg063001.thumb.jpg.dea340a82c1c1a06cabe7670ceb62f78.jpg

Bernie, I can see what you did with the socket and grounding. I did the same thing for both tail lights. WOW! what a difference! The brightness is much higher. I have tail lights on both sides and a turn signal on the right. I still struggling with a fix for the pesky turn signal cable being loose/broken whatever; but, no turn signal on left side. Jim Connor was going to get back to me with some suggestions.

I saw in the past where a fellow used a GM vent cable as a substitute for the 63 Buick Riviera turn signal cable. I'll try to find that info in cyber world. In the meantime thanks for the lesson on grounding. I'm happy I can solder. A little messy, but they solder joints hold.

Many thanks

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3 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

OK, so if you have good ground at the socket and the other tail is working you must be losing the tail voltage to the intermittent tail between where it splits off and the problem socket. I dont have access to a schematic as I am out of town but I`m sure Buick splits the tail light circuit between left and right somewhere in the rear harness. Look for black tape, previous repairs like butt splices, etc...at this point I would be troubleshooting with a quality test light or a DVOM and not trusting that I have a good ground because I have replaced the socket. Just because a part is "new" doesnt mean it is doing what it is supposed to do or that there is not a flaw in installation.

  Tom

tom, you and Bernie were correct on the grounding issue. Bernie sent some good pics and straight forward direction on how to make the fix.

I have tail lights and a right turn signal, but no left hand signal.

I'll keep at it.

Many Thanks for your consideration and great help.

Red Riviera Bob

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I had recurring problems with taillights and turn signals over the years.  It always boiled down to bad grounds at the rear lamp sockets.

 

After a while, you get tired of popping the trunk and wiggling the socket. ;)

 

In the meantime, which bulb(s) don't light when the left signal is on?  If you've got a constant light on the indicator, that usually means that one of the bulbs isn't lighting.  It might be the front bulb.  Or you might just have a burned out rear bulb.  Don't overlook the obvious. ;)

Edited by KongaMan (see edit history)

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