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Changing Loyalties - Please Chime In


Guest Chef Voyardee

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Guest Chef Voyardee

As I prepare to sell my 67 Mustang project car to acquire something more finished that I can have fun with, I am having an internal conflict I am struggling to rationalize. My first car was a '66 Mustang that got totaled not even a year after I acquired it. I did not have a classic car until 7 years later when I picked up a 1967 mustang coupe project car. I have been wrenching on it on and off for the better part of 10 years. It's been one thing after the next, the primary culprit being rust and funds. I may have driven it for a total of 200 miles in that entire time. Part of me held on I think because I wanted to prove to everyone that this project would be successful. But now that I have a family and plan on returning to school, a full on resto is just not feasible, or ideal.

 

So I decided to sell the 67 Mustang, and buy a more finished vehicle. Probably a convertible that I could cruise with the family and punch the gas when the urge strikes me. Rust and major body work are things I want to avoid like the plague as I have had enough of that. My conflict is that up until now, I always identified myself as a Ford/Mustang guy. Funny thing is that my dad hated Fords, being a GM guy all the way. I have fond memories sitting in his '65 Buick Special, '76 Pontiac Grand Prix and '79 Firebird. However, the idea of learning an all new set of data, and engines, body styles, lingos, books, magazines, posters, and what not is new territory. I know every model year of classic mustangs by styling cues. I know the differences between 351w and 351c. I know that Galaxie is not spelled with a y, that Ford parts are EVERYWHERE, that even non-car guys knows what a Mustang is, and the sound difference between a 351 and a 352, and that FE engines are HEAVY, but great sounding. I know C4, C6, 9-inch, Autolite, FoMoCo and cruise-o-matic mean. I know the names Scott Drake, Carroll Shelby, and Lee Iaccoca. I have more than enough Ford books and technical guides to shake a stick at.

 

But, as I look for that special vehicle, I am constantly wondering over to Buick and Pontiac. I have always loves the styling cues, and not everyone and their grandma (maybe a bad analogy) has a Buick. I love the Pontiacs Firebirds, GTOs, and Bonnevilles. I am not at the point where I can drag myself to Chevy yet, but my resistance is wearing down. As we speak, I am seriously contemplating the purchase of a 1969 Skylark Custom convertible. Hands down, this car makes my mouth water. I just wanted to hear from other car guys who have gone through this heartache of switching brands, or not!

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I suggest you move or cross post this in the Buick section for more info on the Skylark. As for "heartache" it sounds like you are an info oriented guy. Look at it  not as a loss of your old girl friend but as an opportunity to get intimate with a new one.....................Bob

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I have found that different makes have kept signature handling & driving characteristics. My '36 Chevy drives like my newer Chevy, My '48 Plymouth starts and drives like my more modern '72 Ply. Most 60's- 70's-80's fords I have owned feel like my Model A when driving. I think these subtle characteristics are engineered in to keep those buyers that are brand loyal. 

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My parents always bought Fords when I was growing up. I have tended to be a GM buyer myself over the years. My first antique car was a Model A Ford. For almost 20 years, my friends knew me as a Model A Ford guy. I owned quite a few of them. Currently I own three collector cars. All of them are Buicks. Find what you like and enjoy it. You don't have to stick with a single make or model.

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Stick with the Mustangs. One of if not the first piece of advice a newbie to collector cars gets is "Decide which make, model, & year(s) you would like to own & then learn everything about them that you can." It appears you know a lot about Mustangs & probably know a lot about repairing & maintaining them. You should also know there are millions of used, NOS, & reproduction parts available for them. Not as much for some other makes & models - the more popular the car, the better chance a replacement part can be found for it. Initial cost would probably be more reasonable for a basic Mustang as well, plus there are so many variations of the Mustang from 6 banger 3 speed stick to Boss 429 four speed, you should have a great selection to choose from. Buy the Buick if you can steal it, but in the long run, I think you're better off sticking with what you know.

BTW, I'm a Chevy guy, but that hasn't stopped me from buying a bargain other make/model to flip it. If I'm buying to keep it, it will be Chevy - because I know Chevys.

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Guest kimestork

I too started out with a project car. In fact, I had two of them. A 1940 Chevy Coupe and, later, a 1948 Oldsmobile. Like your car, mine sat in the garage largely ignored while I went back to school and raised the last of my four children. When the dust had settled, I was still looking at these two cars and realized that I would be squandering another ten or so years rebuilding them while I could be out and about driving a classic. Like you, I thought about switching brands and settled on Buick. While my dad had always been a Chevy guy, I had (from age 7) secretly preferred Buick - this stemmed from the fact that, in the late 50's when I was 7 years old, several of my older cousins had gotten to the point where they could afford an early fifties Buick. I remember them as sleek, gleaming, and sexy - even when compared to dad's '56 Chevy. So, I switched and now am the proud owner of a 1939 Buick business coupe, a 1951 Rivera, and a 1955 Buick Special.   

 

20150522_191520.jpg

1951+Buick+Riviera.jpg

1939 Buick Special 2 dr Business Coupe.jpg

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Chef, there are many, many car fans who have diverse collections.

The A.A.C.A. embraces all antique cars as you know.

Don't feel as though you are "loyal" or "disloyal" for wanting to sample

something else.  If you rent the same vacation spot at the ocean every year,

a change of scenery isn't disloyal, but can be broadening and exciting!

 

While I follow Buick more than other makes, I myself look for cars

that are different in some way from the ones commonly seen at shows.

You'd never go wrong with that '69 Skylark, and maybe it's even more

affordable than the in-demand Mustang.

 

Rambler, Nash, DeSoto, Hupmobile, Studebaker, etc.--these are different cars 

that make good conversation pieces at even the bigger shows.  And

importantly, they have clubs to support you if you ever need help.

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Guest Chef Voyardee
5 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Stick with the Mustangs. One of if not the first piece of advice a newbie to collector cars gets is "Decide which make, model, & year(s) you would like to own & then learn everything about them that you can." It appears you know a lot about Mustangs & probably know a lot about repairing & maintaining them. You should also know there are millions of used, NOS, & reproduction parts available for them. Not as much for some other makes & models - the more popular the car, the better chance a replacement part can be found for it. Initial cost would probably be more reasonable for a basic Mustang as well, plus there are so many variations of the Mustang from 6 banger 3 speed stick to Boss 429 four speed, you should have a great selection to choose from. Buy the Buick if you can steal it, but in the long run, I think you're better off sticking with what you know.

BTW, I'm a Chevy guy, but that hasn't stopped me from buying a bargain other make/model to flip it. If I'm buying to keep it, it will be Chevy - because I know Chevys.

 

I found your post very interesting as it was in contrast to most of the other comments. I appreciate your point and view and approach. It's worth taking into consideration :)

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Guest Chef Voyardee
4 hours ago, kimestork said:

I too started out with a project car. In fact, I had two of them. A 1940 Chevy Coupe and, later, a 1948 Oldsmobile. Like your car, mine sat in the garage largely ignored while I went back to school and raised the last of my four children. When the dust had settled, I was still looking at these two cars and realized that I would be squandering another ten or so years rebuilding them while I could be out and about driving a classic. Like you, I thought about switching brands and settled on Buick. While my dad had always been a Chevy guy, I had (from age 7) secretly preferred Buick - this stemmed from the fact that, in the late 50's when I was 7 years old, several of my older cousins had gotten to the point where they could afford an early fifties Buick. I remember them as sleek, gleaming, and sexy - even when compared to dad's '56 Chevy. So, I switched and now am the proud owner of a 1939 Buick business coupe, a 1951 Rivera, and a 1955 Buick Special.   

 

20150522_191520.jpg

1951+Buick+Riviera.jpg

1939 Buick Special 2 dr Business Coupe.jpg

Thank you for the post. It's always cool to know others are experiencing "life" just like you ;)

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Guest Chef Voyardee
5 hours ago, JFranklin said:

I have found that different makes have kept signature handling & driving characteristics. My '36 Chevy drives like my newer Chevy, My '48 Plymouth starts and drives like my more modern '72 Ply. Most 60's- 70's-80's fords I have owned feel like my Model A when driving. I think these subtle characteristics are engineered in to keep those buyers that are brand loyal. 

 

That's really interesting. You have to wonder how much of that was done on-purpose ;)

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Just because you started with Mustang does not mean that it is the only thing you know, or the only thing you want to know.

 

I've nothing against Mustang, and even got a '66 GT copnvertible as my son's first car to hammer and wrench on. I had a large Chevrolet collection, ranging from a 1927 Roadster to a 1958 Bel-air sedan, to a '63 Impala convertible, a '65 Corvair Monza convertible, and a Corvette convertible and several others along the way. We also had a substantial collection of Citroens, including DS-21 sedans and wagons, the Maseratti-engined SM, the 2-CV, and the Ami-6, among others.

 

Tastes change, reconfigure, and mature. Our current collection is mostly listed below, and is more in keeping with our current tastes, interests, and areas of appreciation.

 

Don't feel that you have to live with a particular area, just because that is where you started. People grow, and as such, their horizons expand. 

1915 Hudson Right Front 7-15.jpg

1930_Packard_-_Oak_Alley_-_Left_4-9-13.JPG

1937 Buick on 2012 Glidden-1.JPG

1941 Caddy at Cruise Night.JPG

Taos Chrome 2010 - 1954 Cadillac 007.jpg

KELLY CORVAIR LEFT FRONT.jpg

1988 CORVETTE LEFT FRONT AT LAKEFRONT.jpg

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Chef,

 

Sounds like what you are longing for is a drivable collector car to enjoy right away to enjoy with others who have finished cars.  Nothing wrong with that desire, go for the Skylark, but keep the Mustang too.  One on my favorite expressions is, "Old cars are like potato chips, nobody can have just one".

While we don't have to keep them all, a variety of old cars is good for you health and enjoyment of the hobby.  There are different tours and activities for each group of old cars.  Like Marty Roth's picture gallery shows, he's ready to participate in all of them.

One more thing, the second question you'll be asked is, "Did you do the restoration?"

Keep the Mustang a you'll get around to finishing it and enjoying the satisfaction of answering YES

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I will go with Paul, you took on the project and lost interest. You can say rust and funds, but I am hearing time as the rust was there when you got it.

If it was truly funds you wouldn't be looking for another car.

Don't take any of that the wrong way, but a guy has to be honest with himself. Buy another car and get that family interested in the Mustang.

 

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Agree with the codicil I have mentioned before: all of my cars are garaged and each has a door, nothing needs to be moved to take a drive. Have seen too many get blocked in and are soon forgotten. 

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Chef, you have received much advice, and hopefully it will assist in your thoughts. 

 

Another consideration is the question of being able to enjoy something "right now", and if you want to be a "Garage Hermit" of if you want to be Family-centric.

 

"Happy Wife - Happy Life"

 

WE have all heard this old-saw, but there is some truth, just as when we drop our fences ; 
In Vino Veritas - In wine there is truth.

 

Whatever the other excuses, have something you AND YOUR FAMILY can enjoy NOW - even if it is just to get out with other club members, or to take the family out for ice cream and a Sunday Drive. 

 

Last Sunday my daughter and her family drove the Corvair to the local All-Club picnic, and they are still all-smiles. They would not be as excited about the Mustang which turned out to have been a seven-year project which was never completed, and later sold at a huge loss. The Corvair is a low-miles, driver-quality, fun and relatively low cost way to enjoy life. It will never be the garage queen that we once expected the Mustang to become, nor will we have a huge pile of cash tied up in a dust-catcher. 

 

It is your choice, but I ask that you simply decide what will bring more family to your family - what you will enjoy over the next few years, and what memories your family will have when they write your obituary

Edited by Marty Roth (see edit history)
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Mr. Chef: I was always told to go to older people for advice. Here is some from an "old" old man!

     Reserve all your loyalty for your wife.------ Play the field with cars. Forget about brand names. Four wheels and a piston engine are always fun!

In the last 71 years I have owned the following:

  2   Crosleys (outran a state cop once with one!)               Now have;  1 LaSalle

  2  Nashes  (LeMans engine--outran everything)                                    1 Minerva

  4  Chevrolets                                                                                             1 Rolls Royce

  3  Fords                                                                                                      1 Chevrolet

  2 Buicks                                                                                                     1 Buick 

  1  LaSalle                                                                                                    2 Lincolns

  1 Rolls-Royce

  3  Lincolns

  1 Pontiac

  1 Minerva

Proof that variety is the spice of life!!

I have heard that he who dies with the most toys wins!  Wins what???? A Grand National Senior at Williamsport in June hopefully!

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On 4/23/2016 at 1:26 PM, Chef Voyardee said:

As I prepare to sell my 67 Mustang project car to acquire something more finished that I can have fun with, I am having an internal conflict I am struggling to rationalize. My first car was a '66 Mustang that got totaled not even a year after I acquired it. 

 

So I decided to sell the 67 Mustang, and buy a more finished vehicle. Probably a convertible that I could cruise with the family and punch the gas when the urge strikes me. Rust and major body work are things I want to avoid like the plague as I have had enough of that.

 

I have always loves the styling cues, and not everyone and their grandma (maybe a bad analogy) has a Buick. 

 

You're looking for an antique car of some kind, and would prefer driving it the next 10 years over repairing it. Sounds like you've had enough of one model of Ford and are looking at other carmakers. Unfortunately, the golden age of American automobiles is long over and we stand amid the ruins of the industry. Really, only three companies are left to choose from in 2016, unless you go to foreign automakers. When my grandfathers got out of the army at the end of the war in 1918, they had cash in their hands and 125 car and truck manufacturers to choose from.

 

You have few choices for new but lots of choices for old cars today. If you look at The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942, you'll find around 5,000 choices of American automakers. If you want to rule out Ford, that leaves 212 other makes starting with "F", most long-gone...but I suppose you could find a Falcon-Knight, Flint or Franklin if you looked really hard. Get one already restored so you don't have to re-build a car again. Get a 1930 Franklin Series 147 Pirate Touring and you'd have a convertible, room for the family, and not a car everyone and their grandma has. Franklins were favorites of Cannonball Baker and Charles Lindbergh, no slouches when it came to speed.

 

Course, you could stick with Ford and get a '55 Thunderbird, or a 2005.

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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I never thought I'd "flip" from the nameplate I grew up on.  At one time, I had 5, 1 of each original generation (2 from 1 generation).  But, then I switched to Caprice Classics for a daily winter warrior.  Then, I lost my job & had to sell those original 5.  Now, I'm looking to replace the remaining Caprice due to memories with a Mercury Grand Marquis year-round daily driver.

 

 

Cort > www.oldcarsstronghearts.com
pigValve.paceMaker.cowValve | 1979 Caprice Classic (needs new owner)

"Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot where I was" __ Patty Loveless __ 'I Try To Think About Elvis'

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Brand loyalty is something the marketing people want to instill in the targets of their output. They work very hard at it, to establish a "relationship" with you, the buyer. I try to avoid such nonsense and be an independent "thinker". The only "relationship" is that they want your money, frequently.

 

Why stick to one brand? You are missing out on lots of other excellent vehicles that may well be "better" than your chosen brand in some way(s).

 

Extend your comfort zone. Find something you like and want to drive. Those are the only selection criteria for me. Then you fit into the market for that vehicle.

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Key is to always have at least one you can have fun now with. If that means just one then that is the place to start. If you do not feel you can be happy without a convertible/manual trans/V8/ &/or AC then that is what you should look for. And I guarantee that if you look, you will find.

 

Do not know how many cars I've had but off the top of my head & only counting ones I had for at least 3 months: Jaguars (4 -actually 9 before took the cure inc XK-140MC, XK 150S, XKE, Devin Jag), MG (2), FIATs (3), Renault Caravelle (1), Corvettes (3), Camaros (4), Corvairs (5 inc.  a Fitch Sprint & a Corvan), Firebirds (1 - OHC 6), Vegas (3), Astre (1), Sunbird (1), Cadillacs (2 & looking not very hard for a XLR), Grand Prixs (3- B, G, & W bodies), GTOs (2- Judge and Goat Wagon), Fieros (5), Reattas (5), Buick GS (1), Crossfire (1), Jeep (1), Olds (Cutlass with a 215: 1), Volkswagen Westphalia & Vixen RVs (Both with manual transmissions).

 

Would say that 3/4 had manual transmissions - 1/2 of current herd do now and all have AC including the camper. Have almost always had at least one convertible. All could be driven now, most to LaLa land tomorrow (Turnpike to I-75, left at Lake City, on 'til you reach water).

 

So make a list. In one column put what the car must have. In the other list what you want it to have. Decide how much to spend and how far you will go. Look until you find. Take a magnet if not Corvettes.

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As long as you like the car, who cares what anyone else thinks!  You're the one who has to enjoy it, work on it, share it with your family and friends.  If the Buick will make you happy, then get it!

 

I've always been a Chevy girl, but there are LOTS of cars out there that, given the funds, room and time, I would love to have :)

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I totally understand where you're coming from. I started my '41 Buick restoration 15 years ago. Fifteen! I have recently come to the realization that my life has changed and I won't be able to personally finish it and will be sending it to a professional shop shortly to get it done before I'm old. In the meantime, I've discovered the old adage that it's always cheaper to buy than build. I have bought several "permanent" members of my collection, including a 1929 Cadillac and a 1966 Mustang convertible, and have just acquired a 1941 Buick Limited limousine that I'm sorely tempted to keep.

 

At any rate, I digress. You're making a smart decision. If you're not enjoying the journey or don't see a way that you can shepherd your Mustang to completion, sell it and move on. I think your choice of a Buick is an excellent decision, not just because I'm a Buick guy, but as a collector car dealer, I see that Buicks are huge bang for the buck. I have a 1971 Skylark convertible that is a car I would happily own forever and I have a 1970 Skylark convertible coming in that will be bargain priced in relative terms (under $20K). You couldn't touch a 1970 V8 Chevelle or GTO convertible in very good condition for that price, despite being very similar cars.

 

You're making the right choice. I know it feels like you're betraying the car, yourself, your friends, and your family by "giving up," but I think you'll find that being behind the wheel with your family will help you build different memories that are good for everyone. It's my personal motto to enjoy life while I'm young enough to do it. Soon enough I'll be old and driving big, heavy old cars will be a challenge, so I'm doing it now, while I can. I suggest you do the same. The future will take care of itself, enjoy the now!

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Well said by Matt, as usual.  

 

I grew up in a Ford family, and my dad is a true blue blue oval guy.  Now look at my cars in my signature.  My family heirloom Mustang is my only old Ford (although I like a lot of old Fords).  Dad still rides in any of them with me with a smile on his face, even though he may not 100% understand why his son is the way he is. :)  Drive what you like!

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I remember when the Ford Falcon first came out. Putting the Mustang body skin on them never impressed me. When I was a kid it always looked like they were designed to steal buyers away from MG, not GM. Most were 6 cylinders.

Bernie

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I always thought the '64 Falcon had much improved styling and the Sprint was available with V8 and a four speed. Also remember one thundering around Sebring early in the morning think in 64. Back then if you were big enough to hold a flag you could be a course worker (but in the US had to be 21 to get a racing license).

 

Was sleeping under the fender of my Jag in turn 1 (looks like it is 17 now) when Freddy Lorenzen came thundering by in a H&M Galaxie about five feet away. Sudden awakening. & was followed by a Falcon that sounded about the same.

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Many say that if you have a long term restoration project you must also have an old car to drive to keep your motivation.  A true sentiment, the years-long project can wear on you, I know, I have a 20 year 1957 Pontiac restoration going.  Fortunately I have had a few other drivable cars come along and they are more realistic for most people--I suggest a serviceable driver that does not need a full restoration and (especially) rust repair. 

 

I also agree that regular production Buick/Olds/Pontiacs are a hidden value of the old car world, especially 1970s and full size models.  Their upside is they are generally cheaper to buy and more unique than comparable Chevys, yet they still often benefit from GM parts availability.  They are often found in better shape than a comparable Chevy.  The downside is that if you need any mechanical or trim parts that are unique to the Buick/Olds/Pontiac that can be a problem.  I would advise if you find a worthy candidate immediately Google for any parts houses to see what parts are readily available so you know.    For example, if you find a decent car but with bad seat upholstery maybe you can find if upholstery is reproduced before you commit.  There are good buys to be had, good luck, Todd C                 

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I spent most of my youth buying and fixing up Fiats. I felt they were the best sports car for the dollar in their day and technologically superior to the Brits. While I don't necessarily regret those 23 Fiats I tinkered with I do regret not sampling other flavors that were available to me at the time. Lots of cheap but driveable cars in the late 70s-80s that I passed up because I was stuck on a singular brand.

 

Eventually I did try a few other things (66 Chevy p/u, Mk1 Ford Fiestas, '65 F100, 79 Austin Mini, 86 Audi Coupe, '86 Honda CRX Si) and am glad I did. Still lots more I'd love to sample (Corvair, Model T, Nash Metropolitan, any Packard). Life is too short not to sample as many flavors of ice cream as possible. You won't like them all but the thing is none of these has to be permanent. If you buy a car that is moderately popular you can always sell it on, and if bought right not lose much or any money in the process.

 

I'm sort of between collector cars right now as I play with the racing bug but when the interest wanes I'll be back browsing the Hemmings classifieds or trolling the car shows looking for the next car that catches my interest.

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FIATs certainly were cooler (more air vents than Brits) and if you knew to clean the sludge from the oil slinger on the crank, they were very reliable. Still remember a rental 1200 Spyder I had for a while, had never seen anything before (and few since) I could shift as fast and a 124 Spyder was the first for me with a five speed. Also liked a top you could just reach back and pull up and not an erector set.

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11 hours ago, padgett said:

a 124 Spyder was the first for me with a five speed. Also liked a top you could just reach back and pull up and not an erector set.

 

My first sports car was a used 124 Spider, I had been considering an MG or Triumph and sort of fell into the Fiat (staying open to changing loyalties, yes?).  I also felt the Fiat was a few steps ahead of the British in features and best of all the interior and trunk were surprisingly roomy and the top a marvel of simplicity.  My 1976 Alfa Spider also had these plusses, in my opinion those Pinninfarina designs were brilliant except for the rust, but I guess the British had that feature too, Todd C     

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if you're not planning on rebuilding the motor itself, then what difference does it make? the resto thing does take alot more looking for stuff, having to settle for used stuff because nobody makes it. it gets more expensive. never, i dont think, get your money out of something like my 62 leSabre.  just polishing the pits out of chrome and re-chroming the dash pieces is WAY out of my budget.  what about a Coyote engine in your stang? if that car doesn't do it for you, kinda like i'm tired of my 55 truck, then get something that makes you excited. (like we'd all like to do with our women).  i was always a chevy guy, when it comes to this pontiac engine i'm building i'm a total douche. it sucks. which is why i said that unless you are rebuilding the engine, buy whatever you want. but if you are going to rebuild it, i would suggest you let someone else to it for you. it really is too much to take in for an old coot like me. i'm 60, don't know your age, but think you might get my drift.  my 66 tempest was great for me. because it ran and was all there. it didn't need anything. after a $3K paint job it was a show car. (well new seats too). but i fell in love with pontiacs.  i'm not so much a Brand loyalist, but i do only seem to want those muscle cars from the late 60's 70-73.  like most of the world, unfortunately! 

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I know the feeling very well, I myself almost feel bored at times I have been collecting and restoring Chevrolet's for almost 40 years. I spcifically was involved with same 4 years of production. I felt there was not much to learn or see, an even contemplated getting out of the hobby. While I still stayed with Chevrolet's I bought one 30 years older then the ones I collected and it freshened things up. I was fortunate that I had both the space and money to keep my other cars, The change was good for me. I ended up selling that car realizing it was not my cup of tea, and I appreciated the ones that caught my interest in the first place. If it is a car that really makes your mouth water then go for it, if you never do it you might always regret it. You can find another Mustang.  Good luck with your decision

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I see many guys on here with a list of cars they have. The reason for so many is because they, just like the guy with only one, they all like many makes and models. Its the car hobby disease, millions have it, there are TV shows about it. The only thing impossible is to only really like one make or one model. Most of us feel lucky and happy to have whatever we have but deep down we always see something else that would be nice to have. I say get as many and whatever you can afford Its a hobby, its fun, its a part of our lives. 

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