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How to pull 1937 President timing gear?


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I'm trying to take the front end of the 1937 President engine apart.  I've got the vibration damper off and the front cover.  My gear pullers don't seem to want to grab the large timing gear, keep slipping off the back side of the arms and outer rim.  There doesn't seem to be any place to grip on the inside hub, and the flipping the gear puller arms over to pull on the inner side of the outer gear rim didn't work either.  Do I need to use a big splitter on the outside rim of the big gear?  I'm missing something here.  I don't want to break the gear.

 

Also, where can I get the rubber cones for the vibration damper, p/n 188678.  I need 4 of them, used on 1936-42 Presidents.

 

Any suggestions?

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Ahh, now I see the internal threads in the cam gear!  And, now I also see the threads called out in the shop manual drawing for the puller/pusher.

I made a drawing of what I think it ought to look like.  I can go get a piece of 2.25" round bar stock, turn it down and cut some threads.  It may need a couple of flats to put a big wrench on it if it gets stuck.  I made the center hole large enough to get the end of my gear puller in.  To push the gear back on, I just need a 1/2-16 bolt and a big washer to push the gear.  Did I get it about right?

 

Thanks for the offer, Jerry.  I need to own one of these anyway, so I think I'll just make one.

 

cam gear puller.jpg

 

cam gear puller rendered.jpg

cam gear section small.jpg

Edited by Gary_Ash (see edit history)
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I found a 2" diameter x 1.5" long slug of cold drawn bar in my shop, put it in my Harbor Freight 7x10" lathe [what an underpowered toy! Do not buy!], and managed to turn and thread it.  Almost to my amazement, I got the threads right and it screwed in to the cam gear.  A little fiddling and work with my 2-jaw gear puller, and off cam the cam gear.  It looks undamaged, but I bought a new one anyway some time ago.

 

Now I have to make a new front plate for the engine so that I can mount it in the chassis of the Indy car.  I was going to use the 1937 V-shaped mount in front and the 2-point bell housing support in the rear, and I had already welded up two cross-members, but I couldn't make the front member clear the spring shackles.  I'll essentially make copies of the original Indy car style.

 

Has anyone put a modern lip seal in the front cover instead of the felt seal?   

cam puller on engine.jpg

cam gear pulled.jpg

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Gary: I replaced the big felt washer with a modern seal in my '36 President. Been several years ago and didn't take photos.....sorry!

 

I removed the original felt holder from the cover and turned a new steel shell, also from cold-roll, to hold a modern press-fit seal. I recall curving the underside of that shell to fit into the "bulge" in the cover to provide "centering" (important), then carefully soldered the shell into the cover and pressed the seal into place. (Didn't record the number of the seal....... sorry again)! 

 

One concern was adequate seal lubrication, but I hoped enough oil would be splashing off the gears to keep the seal wet. Also made a few longitudinal "lines" on the shaft, beneath the seal, with a fine scuff pad to help channel a minuscule bit oil under the seal lip. Three years now and no sign of external leaking oil so guess everything is working as planned........... Bill. 

 

 

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Yes, yes, YES!  I see the rubber cones on the Shrock Brothers web site, now that you mentioned them.  They are under miscellaneous rubber parts.  That will save me from making a mold and casting some in urethane, which is what the Shrocks do very well.  They cost $5 each.  I'll call Tom Schrock and order some.  Thanks!

 

See http://www.shrockbrothers.com/studebaker_reproduction_parts.html#misc

 

37_pres_crank_shaft_damper.jpg

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Not really relevant to above discussion but here goes:

I bought my 37 Coupe Express from a local farmer several years ago for the grand total of $50.

He had parked it in a field after performing a "farmer overhaul" by himself the previous winter when he had extra time. It never ran right after that so he gave up.

My rebuilder, who also rebuilt my 6A Coupe engine 30 years ago, called me one day during the rebuild and said he had figured out why it didn't run right. The timing gear was installed by the farmer one cog off. Go figure.

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Actually, Don, your comments are VERY relevant - I do have to put the cam drive gear back on.  I haven't looked very hard for marks, but there must be something on the two gears to indicate which teeth get aligned.  The shop manuals I have for 1937 and 1939 are remarkably silent about this.  What is the correct procedure?

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Illustration No. 3 on p. 20 of the 1938 shop manual shows there to have been one spot on the cam gear and two on the crankshaft gear. Clearly you put the one spot tooth between the two spotted teeth. From memory (25 years) the spots are holes. They'll probably be full of oily gunk.

 

One should use a gear pusher for installing the cam gear. "Under no circumstances should the gears be forced on the shaft by means of hammer blows."!

 

The 1939 manual has the same picture in the same place and the text, such as it is, is on p.23.

Edited by Spinneyhill
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Gary, I do not install timing gears by drawing them on.  It is too easy to damage both fibre or aluminum gears with the load on the cam shaft from the valve springs.  i remove the lifter blocks and cam.  Then use a press to install the gear and install with no problems.  If you do draw it on, make sure you rotate the cam or crank to keep the load off the gear as it spirals on. 

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