Oregon Desert model 45 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 these parts appear to be correct for my 1925-45, but I am not quite sure how they attach. can someone please provide a photo showing these installed ? parts are : Rear Fender Wing-Upper, and Radiator Mud Pan. thank you Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Kevin, The rear fender wings go at the very back of the rear wheel well and into the last bolt holes for the rear fenders. Shown is the left rear wheel without the fender in place. Mine also had a lag bolt that went thru the rear wheel housing and into the wood that goes over the rear axle. I do not think it was originally a lag bolt, probably something smaller. I have to research the radiator mud guard, because I have 1 of those as well, and was not sure where it went. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I could use help locating this for my 1925 Buick standard Touring. It only requires one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I also have this unknown plate for my 1925-25 as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Radiator mud pan shet metal are only for Master models,just to cover in front of the frame. Leif in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 gr8success.I can`t recognice this plate as a 1925 Buick at all. Leif Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Leif, Isn't this strange. The 1925 standard parts book calls out 1 radiator mud pan, and I have one. Like you say, for a Master model, this makes sense to have 2 of these. I think a mistake in the parts book? Like the picture of the Master radiator in the standard parts book perhaps. Thanks for the photo. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 gr8success.Now I have found out were the metal plate are sitting.Proberbly the same on all "starter-generators"1923-1925. Leif in Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Leif, Thanks for the extra photo. I appreciate the help with locating stuff from the box. Now I know where this part goes. My car was pulled apart in the 60's, with very few tags. Many parts in coffee cans and glass containers, some of which have broken. Ziplock bags and a marks a lot sure are an improvement. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Hugh: The Mud Pan # 172835 is the full width sheet metal part between the frame under the radiator. Plate #6 page 20 in the Book of parts. I would have scanned it for reference but my copies are not very good. Inside that starter gear cover is where I found out what happened to 1/2 of one of my clutch disks. Edited March 29, 2016 by dibarlaw (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Now it all makes sense. There were several boxes of unidentified car parts of various makes that came from my father's garage, and when I saw Hugh's parts shopping list, I recognized one of them was the rear hood support. I will keep looking thru those boxes of parts and see what else is in there. The radiator is from a 1926 Master, and apparently the front hood support attached with 2 screws to the radiator surround, which is different from the 1925 front hood saddle. Below is a photo of the radiator surround removed from the radiator for cleaning and rust & crack repair. I haven't yet checked to see how well the 1925 radiator shell fits over the 1926 radiator and surround. Kevin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Kevin, Before you really need to use your hood support bracket that bolts on the cowl, Can you trace it out on a piece of paper and add some dimensions to it. If I am lucky, maybe I can still find one of these, but if not I will make it. I have the phone number of another person who is looking for one also. Doubtful we will find 2 of them. In fact if you have a tracing with dimensions, I can forward it to him. A drawing will be a great help to us. Also look at the photo just under this hood pivot on my list. That is what goes behind the cowl bracket that is riveted on. It is tough to get a wrench in there. It is a 1/4" thick piece of steel, 3/8 wide, with a hole tapped in it. If you can find the part, can you give me the dimensions. I have the steel for this. It is the same steel that they use for a keyway on the standard taper axle. If you can't find the part, let me know, and I can make 2 of them. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Thanks for all the great insight. So I need to make a correction. The extra part that I have is a "Radiator Mud Pan Cover - Right - part 169340" for a 24 6 cyl or 25/26/27 Master. It is not a "standard" part as Leif indicated. Just an extra part that needs a new home. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 I will measure the cowl hood bracket and make a dimensioned drawing suitable for fabricating replacements. The U shaped bracket riveted to the firewall measured approx 1/2" wide and 3/8" deep, so I assumed the nut that fits inside (Special hex nut #47467) should be made from 1/2 x 3/8 flat bar. The length appears to be approx 1 1/4" to my eyes based on scaling the 5/16" tapped hole to the overall length. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Here is another picture of the part. I can copy it and put it to scale knowing that the rod is a 5/16". I will look and see if I have bar stock already to make this. If I have the stock, I will make 3. Hugh Edited April 1, 2016 by gr8success (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 Hugh By scaling this photo, the bar thickness does appear to be 1/4", and the length to be 1 1/4". I have some small pieces of 1/4" bar which I can use to fabricate one for my car. I also have to fabricate a replacement for the radiator brace rod which screws into this elongated nut. All that remains is the eyelet which is attached to the radiator surround in the photo above. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) Kevin, I noticed that you just have the Clevis part of the radiator brace rod. Per the master parts book, the rod should be 36 3/8" from center of the eyelet to the end of the rod for your car. Mine calls out 32", and it is 32 3/16". The threads are 5/16-24 and the threaded section is 2 1/2" long. Hugh . Edited April 4, 2016 by gr8success added dimensions (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hugh I have the same Master Parts book too- just wish it had a few more pictures and tables with dimensions of other parts. Photos below show dimensions for the rear hood support and approx sizes of the stock to make it from. This hood support allows for a lot of adjustment in the of height and side to side position at the rear of the hood. I wonder if the Buick factory encountered a lot of variation between bodies, frames, and sheetmetal parts to require this much adjustment to make the hood fit correctly ? I found a 1925 radiator at the swap meet this weekend, and will need a fwd Hood Hinge saddle 44000 for it. I should be able to compare the location of the 1926 fwd saddle to figure out dimension between the upper/lower holes for the 1925 saddle, and fabricate one from 1/2 round and 1/4 flat bar. I will provide dimensions when complete. Notice the missing neck on the 1925 radiator - there must have been a nice ornament on it that was stuck, and somebody wanted it bad enough to saw off the neck. Kevin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Here is what the large series (192 1924 Harrison Tag) Radiator top mount looks like that I have. I bought this at Hershey last year since the 1925-45 near me needed a better Shell. Which this one is still pretty bad, But much better than the one on the local car. Torn sections, broken welds, missing sections, many dents and a small rust out at lower left corner. The car I offered on 3 years ago and I believe they still have it. Bad Idea to start accumulating spares for a car that may never come your way. But everyone I know needed a better shell including one for my 1925-25. So I saw it and well.... This radiator probably started out in better shape. But, it has been at probably been at a dozen flea markets and was tossed around a good bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Larry, Would you be able to pull off the hood pivot 44000 and make a dimensional drawing of this? This is another part that I know of 3 people looking for, and the dimensions will come in very handy. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Kevin, Thanks so much for the dimensional drawing. I doubt that I will find this piece, as I imagine many of these have been lost when people removed the hood. This makes my day. Hugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 That little part and a few of the others may have been dropped on the ground when this car was being dismantled out in the desert. All the heavy parts and all the shiny parts were removed over the years. Based on the tears and dents in the mudguard and hood shelves, I believe the original motor was unbolted, then jacked & blocked up to raise it high enough to clear the frame, then dragged out from the front. Here is one more photo taken in about 1984 of the car now sitting on 26 Standard wheels & axles. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 whoops forgot to add the photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Kevin, Is this the car you are restoring? I do like the trunk mount that was added in front of the spare tire. I also have a crack in a fender bead that I need to fix, but I need to find the best way to fix that. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 That is the car. Here is another "before" picture, and another after my father had replaced the wood and installed a 1926 Standard motor - see how it looks a little too short in there ? He bolted the Standard crossmembers to the frame to support that motor. That 26 motor and crossmembers are gone now, and I just need to weld those extra holes in the frame rails closed. The trunk rack may have been a dealer addition, or a period conversion available from an accessory manufacturer. It incorporated the original spare tire rack and added another 16" or so to an already long car. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Kevin, Wow, that is really neat. I am impressed by the work. Is all of your wood complete? So my car is a 25 Standard Touring, and yours is a Master, but I have almost every wood piece drawn now, and photographed. I would think construction is identical, with only a few changes to some of the wood pieces. Probably be done with this by the end of the month. Then I need to figure out how to make copies of some of the bigger pieces (on 3' x 7" sheet of Kraft paper). I was very lucky with my car. Almost no wood rot, and the water it received over time mainly just broke down the glue, so I was able to draw all the wood pieces out individually, as they were not attached well to each other. Lots of rusty screw holes that I needed to fill though. I like the rack, as with no trunk on my car, all I have is under the seats. I may build something like this. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 I fabricated a substitute for 44000 Hood hinge saddle and was able to pin the hood on the car for the first time. Now I need to figure out how to form this hood to restore the upper curvature so it will sit down on the cowl and radiator. Here are some pictures of how I used the 26 radiator surround to figure out the spacing between the hood hinge hole and the lower hole that fastens to the slotted tabs on the radiator surround. The 26 radiator surround will accomadate either a 44000 saddle or the newer style forward hood hinge that attached with 2 machine screws. There was enough space to insert the 44000 weldment and pin to the newer hinge saddle to get correct hinge alignment, then sight thru the slot and mark the center point to drill the lower hole. The lower hole in the original 44000 looks to be larger than I drilled in the substitute, which would allow for more adjustment. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Attached are dimensional drawings of the other two hood hinge parts that tend to get lost. This is the hood hinge saddle # 44000 and the radiator brace rod special nut # 47467. I have been searching for these for almost a year. Credit goes to my good friend Larry Dibarry who sent me these parts. The drawing is to scale. Hugh Edited June 19, 2016 by gr8success updated drawing (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sligermachine Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) I Have 8 seat frames that came with the buicks that I bought is the set in the car look right some of them just to wide so that cant be looks like a rumble seat and the ones in the 1925 master roadster drivers seat fit pretty good I would love for some one to tell me just how far from seat bottom frame to some point in car I would like to finish the wood work today next week I have to go back to work and I'm starting to build a new big machine probably barle get to work on the only thing I want to work on U know what I mean ....thank U for any replies A head of time --kyle 1925-44 master roadster Edited December 29, 2017 by sligermachine (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Sligermachine Not sure if this is what your after. But the seat base is raised 4" above the floor at the front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sligermachine Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 yep that is what I was after--kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Kyle : Nice talking with you today. What Rod sent is correct for the shape of the seat/riser frame. On my Master the face of the riser is 26 1/4" from the inside of the firewall as measured from above the starter pedal. There is an 1 1/4" overhang of the top board making it exactly 25" to the firewall. The metal seat retaining band I mentioned is 2" wide. On my car the height of the front seat riser from the finished floor to the underside of the top board is 2 7/8". I allowed for the 1/8" of the linoleum. The bottom seat springs you show are much too square on the corners. Mine are about an 8" radius (see Rods photos). Also, I am sending some scans of the 1925 Master Book Of Parts. Look at the shape of the illustration of part #167757 Plate 51 and on page 117. It shows that the seats are the same for models 44 and 45. We must all thank Leif for this! Here are photos of what the front of the riser looks like with the retaining band. and then a photo of the inside looking out on the drivers side. Edited January 1, 2018 by dibarlaw Added content (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Kyle : We also discussed the wood trap /storage door under the seat. Here is a drawing I made of what I have and a photo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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