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Auction sales DOWN, don't buy 911 yet


smithbrother

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The average of  the top auction houses ,sales are DOWN 15% compared to last year.  

 

AutoWeek has a full story on such TODAY.

 

Hinting that top buyers may have the pieces they want, at least for now.

 

Dale

 

P.S.  Over the past few days I have noticed, LOTS OF CARS NOT SELLING,  seems to me MORE than in the past. 

Edited by smithbrother (see edit history)
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A cynical person might say that that just proves that Vettes, Camaros, tribute cars and resto-mods are not selling. Says very little about the market for antique cars in general.

 

Agreed.

 

I do this for a living, I study this stuff like a stockbroker, and I think I'm pretty good at it. The only conclusion I've ever drawn from watching "the market" is that there are no conclusions to be drawn. Good cars always sell. Trash doesn't. Rich people are always going to be rich. The rest of us have to enjoy what we can, when we can.

 

My expert advice? Buy what you love and forget values. Don't wait for "the market" to tell you something about how to enjoy your life. Money is easy to get. Time is impossible. Make the most of what you have and let the future take care of itself.

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All you need is a Good Idea, Some Talent, and a Market Place. :D  I usually fall down trying to find a Market Place for where the Easy Money comes from.  ;) Dandy Dave! 

 

Matt, where can I get some of that easy money?  I have plenty of time but not enough money.

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)
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'Make the most of what you have and let the future take care if itself.'

 

Words to live by - old cars and otherwise!

 

Thanks Matt!

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Perhaps more people are bypassing the auction route to buy cars. There are certainly more places to find cars today than just auctions and those sales are not tracked by anyone that I know of. For sure many fine autos have been listed here on this site instead of going to an auction for disposal.

The stock market is going though another adjustment phase, maybe the auto auction market is doing the same.

Terry

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Could it be that we are just getting smarter and figuring out the auction companies are "laughing all the way to the bank". How many times have we all questioned why someone has paid well over what some cars are worth, just because they are on TV. When I was at Barrett Jackson, I witnessed  the "ring man" pumping bidders and before they realized it, they had spent several thousand more than they wanted.

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In some states, what the "ring men" do would be considered assault.

 

Interest rates are at ridiculously low levels, fixed rate home mortgages can be had for 3% or less and anything under 5% is considered stagnation.

 

So this would be a time to borrow as much low rate money as you can & buy your dream car with it (in comparison in 1984 home mortgage rates exceeded 12.5%). Just do not get an "adjustable".

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I wouldn't say that auction sales are down. I think the quality of cars available has been lower and of less quaility. Speaking to several buyers of all types of cars, every one of them mentioned true first class iron with no stories and good provenance we're bringing all the money. That goes for brass, CCCA Classics, post war Itaillian GT cars, and American muscle. If anyone has any world class prewar cars available below market just give me a call, I will be happy to find a buyer for you. As mentioned above, investment grade cars are very few and far between. They are much less than one percent of the market. Certain sections of the market are hard to figure out......Porsche is one of them. While I never have and never will be in that market, it's been interesting to watch. Is it overheated by fifty percent? Or were they undervalued for the last twenty five years? Since they are beyond my frame of intrest, I enjoy sitting back and watching the market on them. I have my own opinion on them, but am curious as to what others who trade in them think. Ed.

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AutoWeek reported this week that total auction sales for most houses are down.

The quality special cars seem to be doing well, I did notice what appears to me, more cars where the BIDDING GOES ON.

Seldom does a high end restored, or modified piece bring back the investment, we all have seen that.

I did note this past weekend more cars in the 20-30 range.

Dale in Indy

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For me it has been fun but started paying into Social Security fifty years ago. Agree 911s, particularly ones that were the equivalent of a Hellcat like the 930*, have people willing to pay silly money for them. For me the only one I'd be interested in would be the Boxster (better 914-6) but haven't run out of American (or at least American badged) cars yet..

 

 

 

*- most likely to encounter a solid object in the first half hour

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Guest AlCapone

"Good cars always sell. Trash doesn't."

 

That's the truth.  The issue is the definition of "trash" I guess.  It is wider than most people would expect.

Trash can not be defined and is a useless word - Every persons definition differs. Might as well say your favorite color is plaidM wayne

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Guest AlCapone

Hardly can be called a trend. Basically a bump in the road. Only a fool would invest or. not invest on this short term movement! panic buying and selling is for the faint at heart. Wayne

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How's about "Collectors pay silly money for concours cars they have not a clue how to drive while an enthusiast doesn't buy more cars than garage doors."

 

To a real enthusiast, no car is trash (well maybe a '60 F*rd), just a question of whether desirable or not.

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money has never been easy for me........................ Matt, I'm sure you are sorry that you suggested that...................

 

money comes easy for some, but most have to work pretty darn hard to get some!

 

and when you get it, the Mercers now cost a couple of million!

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As we all know the market took a big hit in the last 6 weeks so I think some buyers might be reluctant to tie up their cash and prefer it to be more liquid, I agree with Matt 100% quality cars will always have a market. A few weeks ago in Old Cars Weekly there was an issue dedicated to the state of the hobby, The interviewed Mark Hyman and he said the same exact thing that Matt said.

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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I agree the word "trash" is very subjective which is why I noted that it is broader (in my opinion) than most people realize.

 

I also realize that one man's trash is another's treasure.  The one thing I do wonder about (not necessarily worry, but wonder) is how the gradual but consistent erosion of mechanical skills will affect the hobby over the long haul.   The guy with a Duesenberg can probably afford a skilled expert. The issue is the 80% of the collector cars which require cheap labor in the form of the owner to support them.   If the owner grew up playing on a game station and not working on his car in the driveway he's not going to be able to do it.

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The quality special cars seem to be doing well...

Dale in Indy

 

I think that, much more often than people realize,

cars that sell at auction aren't really finding homes.

A car may tend to go from dealer to dealer, to auction, 

to dealer, before a caring owner actually acquires it.

 

Here's an example from the Buick thread, a larger series

1932 Buick that is designated a Classic.  It was declared

"sold," but it just ended up at another dealership:

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/265338-sold-rare-1932-buick-series-90-96s-rumble-seat-coupe/

 

Are dealers making out okay?  Obviously they're not

getting high prices when they sell to another reseller.

Can we draw conclusions of the current car market from this?

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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I like hearing those people who say "my hard earned money" when they talk. I'll bet you I have worked hard more days of my life than most young  people are years old!

Bernie

 

Yup. They Ain't worked unless they grew up on a Dairy Farm. 24 Hours a day, 7 Days a week, 365 Days a year. Except for leap year. Then it is 366 days for that year. You get to sleep if the Cows let you sleep. Caving Cows can keep the Boss up all night at times. Maybe a Nap on a Rainy Day when you can't Bale Hay or Chop Corn between milkings. But usually even then something broken needs attention. Had some young fellow's sent to me to do some hand shoveling a few years ago on a raised septic system that I put together for a local fellow. Two of them said that they did not get paid enough to shovel. And one came in night slippers and PJ's. Maybe he thought he was going to play video games. He did not know what end of the Pick Ax to use. I ended up doing all the shoveling myself. Dandy Dave!  

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One, I meant no offense when I said that money was easy to get. My point is that money is a lot easier to get than time, speaking to the bigger point of stop wishing and doing nothing because you're waiting for prices to fall or your finances to change and get busy doing something that brings you happiness. Watching the market and hoping that someday you can get your dream car wastes a lot of precious time when instead you could have something else that may make you almost as happy today.

 

Two, "trash" in the old car world is like Edwin Meese's description of pornography: "I can't define what it is, but I know it when I see it." There's no specific car that qualifies as trash, but since I know you guys enjoy posting and making sport of such things, you know exactly what I'm talking about. There are often cars on Ebay that have been the victims of bad taste, inferior craftsmanship, indifferent maintenance, and/or questionable modifications, or some combination of all of those things. You all know trash when you see it, just as I do. I'm not tiptoeing around trying not to offend people who love a specific car that's difficult to love, because there's a fan for every make and model and that's cool. But trash is something totally different. Stop being offended that maybe I sort-of implied that somewhere there's perhaps an inferior car that I don't like that someone else loves.

 

Here's my point boiled down to simplest terms for the simplest readers: forget what "the market" is doing and how it affects your life. It means nothing. Take the profit out of your passion. Buy what you love and enjoy it. Have a good life, regardless of your means. Be happy.

 

For those of you who somehow managed to take offense to that message, I'm sorry.

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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Dave, read what I wrote out loud. It actually originated from an old man in a bar in the next town over, and a memorable statement. He said "Sonny, I've worked hard more days in my life than you are years old."

I was 22 or 23 years old at the time. Kinda stuck with me.

Bernie

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In people over 60, being offended can stimulate circulation in their extremities; maybe the only time that particular day. Personally, I'm really hard to offend and when I am it makes me laugh.

 

On the discrimination on cars you can look at it objectively; how many points does it achieve in 400 point judging or subjectively; 6 out of 10 over-aged air guitar players prefer.

 

I remember, about 30 years ago when a friend had just finished a grueling restoration of a popular MoPar and I had cut the roof off my wife's '62 Electra 6 window 4 Dr hardtop. He stood talking to me frustrated with a red face and said "My stomach is in knots every time I take my car out and I park is as far away from anyone as I can. I am up late worrying about exacting details. I'm a mess. And you are just having a ball in that damned thing you cut the roof off. Something ain't right!" He still has the MoPar and I sold the Buick. Nothing else has changed.

Bernie

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Matt Harwood, offered the best advice of this thread,

"My expert advice?  Buy what you love and forget values. Don't wait for "the market" to tell you something about how to enjoy your life. Money is easy to get. Time is impossible. Make the most of what you have and let the future take care of itself."

Remember all the stories about the ones that got away because people thought the price was a little high?

If you think so, make an honest good faith offer and make a deal.  If you love it, do it.  If it's just because it's cheap, keep looking for the right car.  As I look back on the 100 or so cars I've owned, the ones I paid the most for are among my favorites.  Kind if a measure of love as I recall them, and the money part is forgotten. They were beautiful, fun to drive and totally enjoyable memories.  Some lost value, others gained, but as hobbies go, old cars are a cheap net cost hobby in the long run.

 
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Cost is mutable. Think the most fun I had was with a FIAT 124 Spyder I paid about $600 for (and not $750 for a 66 Mustang 289 and three speed). Crossie tries but the roof doesn't fall off.

One article I remember from C&D was Henry Manney talking about how much fun his Cobra was but it was worth too much to just drive. Thought that was sad.

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Matt Harwood, offered the best advice of this thread,

"My expert advice?  Buy what you love and forget values. Don't wait for "the market" to tell you something about how to enjoy your life....

 

That's good advice, up to a point.  This is a hobby for fun,

and dollars shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of one's concerns.

 

It shouldn't mean to buy whatever you want regardless of the cost--

that's not wisdom,  It's a good route to the poor house and an unhappy marriage!

I'm sure that Matt, like any other intelligent collector-car dealer,

doesn't "forget values" when he is buying for his business.

It's probably just the opposite.

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Doing dumb stuff really has a double edged sword. Ten or so years ago I started fulfilling my life long Jaguar passion. I got some that were not good choices like a '53 Mark VII needing lots of work, a couple V12 XJS', a '76 XJ6 with a bad tranny, and a '61 XKE that would have been an overwhelming project. I sold them all and probably made a few bucks.

 

But I kind of wish I had been dumb enough to keep one.

Bernie

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