Hupp36 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Two weeks ago a friend asked me if I wanted to go up to a town near Chicago to look at a 1927 Pierce-Arrow limo that he was interested in buying. After looking at this car, I was truly in the presence of one of the most prestigious automobiles in my opinion ever produced. Chauffeur driven, divided window the passenger compartment door handles and foot rest are gold plated.This car is a piece of history. At this time the car is in transit to its new home. My friend purchased it. I t will reside in a heated, air condition, dust free environment. Here are a few pic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Absolutely gorgeous! What a stately vehicle.More photos please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Will do after it gets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Will be eagerly waiting. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 It looks like this one - http://www.artvalue.com/auctionresult--pierce-vehicles-1927-pierce-arrow-seven-passen-1819766.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Car delivered this morning.A few more pic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I really like the purple tint antique glass gets as it ages.Truly a car beyond words that can describe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 That purple tint is usually confined to the Bausch & Lomb headlight lenses. I'm told it's the effect of UV rays on high-manganese glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Wonderful automobile, I hope the new owner drives it. That series will run down the road all day long, they are most happy under 45 mph, but do just fine for short runs a little bit faster. A high speed rear would be a good choice for lots of driving or long distances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Ed, I am waiting for the books and literature that came with the car. They started the car when we looked at it. . I took notes on the starting procedure. The gentleman who bought the car wanted me to make sure i could start and run the car when he received it. It is quite a lengthy procedure to start this car. I made a check list, it works fine. I am a Hupmobile guy and getting to drive a very nice car like this is like winning the lottery. I need to know all about this car to be able to service and keep it in the fine condition that it's in. Being able to work on a piece of history doe not come along every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 We took the car for a shot ride today. I leaned out the fuel but it still was exhausting black smoke.Hope the books we receive from the previous owner will help me tune this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Keep it running rich, black smoke is ok, run lean and you will burn valves and crack the block. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thank you for the advice, do not need t burn the valves or crack the block. We are going to a show this Saturday, will let it run rich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 The owner called me and said he received the owners manual & parts books from the previous owner. He is making a copy for me to use as a guide to service the car. I am sure happy to be able to know what makes a Pierce Arrow tick and keep it ticking like a watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 With great respect for Ed, I must caution against running really rich, as this will dilute the motor oil. A design defect in Pierce dual valve engines, including my "new" 1918, is that there is minimally adequate cooling for the exhaust valves. This condition is exacerbated when cylinders are bored out. The exhaust valves, although small, can get very hot and burn under high speed driving and lean conditions. So yes, we do want them running somewhat rich, but not pouring out black smoke at idle and at light acceleration or cruise. A Best Practice during rebuild of these engines is to sleeve back to standard or even less-than-standard bore, and to chamfer the tops of the bores at the deck to minimize "sharp edges" which would get hot faster. I mentioned in a PM to Chuck the OP that two things to check are (1) the float level as shown by the index mark on the carb bowl sight glass and (2) to ensure that there is some (little) slack in the cable which operates the primer--and that the primer needle and seat are clean and closing properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 I will be taking the car out for another run tomorrow morning. Before I do, I will check the fuel level in the carb. and check to make sure there is some slack in the primer cable. The owners manual says to make no adjustments before the car is up to running temperature. A good run should do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Grimy or as I call him Uncle George comment is fine and not offensive. I wasn't implying to run the air fuel ratio at 8 to 1 but just be sure to be on the rich side. On his car I would always expect to see some black smoke, and depending on how and when the motor was built and what type of parts were used some blue smoke wouldn't be out of the question, even when the car was new. Not a lot of blue, but some on decelleration can and would be expected on this motor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Fast Eddie, "Uncle George" is a name I'm happy to answer to (I have several nephews and nieces and their offspring); I'm usually called much worse! Actually the 48-B-5 was equipped with oil control rings from the factory, and it's the first year for a thermostat! Speaking of thermostats, Hupp36 please check to see that the car runs at least 150*F at this time of year; if not, check for a failed safe or missing t'stat. Hupp36, suggest you identify the mixture control setting at 40 mph where the engine is smoothest and doesn't lag when you punch it a bit, then add a tad more fuel as a running setting once warmed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Thank you both for the information.Its great to have people who have experience with these vehicles. The run today should tell me whats going on and what I need to do to make it run at its best. Again thank you Ed & Grimy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Ok, checked the float level, ok and the rod and cable from the primer seen to have some slack of play if you will. Went on about a 8 mile run had a follow me guy saying at between 35-40 the black smoke was not to noticeable. By advancing the spark at 40 it seem to run smooth. I will try to lessen the fuel on the carburetor main adjustment just a little to see how much difference it makes. Driving this car is a hoot. It makes you feel wonderful with no bad effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Fully retard the spark for starting, then advance it all the way and leave it there. With modern gas you don't need to retard for hills unless Ed has worked his magic on that Dual Delco system. Full retard at idle also slows it 'way down to impress bystanders at shows. If the car hadn't been driven in a few months, you might add a rich dosage of Seafoam to the fuel tank to do some internal cleaning--but only if someone has added an inline fuel filter--itself a very good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Yes, there is an inline fuel filter, I drained the tank, flushed it with new gas, cleaned the 2 drain plugs in the bottom of the tank and installed a new fuel filter. Off we go to the car show, see how the public likes the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Uncle George, all my stuff is stock..............super stock! Edited March 8, 2016 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Another useful feature of timing control is to allow extremely low speeds in top gear with full retard. You can probably slowly and very gently accelerate out of 4 or 5 mph on level ground. Downhill , just pick up a bit of sped with the clutch in in top gear , then let the clutch out at idle. Just crack the throttle , and as speed increases , advance the timing. Chauffeurs back then used these techniques to give the smoothest gentlest ride possible to their passengers. This is even easier on modern 87 octane gasoline. Drive anticipating conditions ahead , and try to avoid exercising that crashbox as much as possible. Always use the lowest octane available. I would think your car has significant exhaust heating to the intake manifold. Block that heat if practical, and reduce thermal bridging as much as you can. Gasoline is very different today from the low volatile mixture used mid-teens to late '20s. What a spectacular car ! - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 On A little down hill slant, i have been taking off in 2nd. I been having better luck shifting quickly. Seems to mesh better. Having driven big trucks for a few years sure helps. Again thank you all for the help. We are using gas with out ethanol and using a lead additive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Spent the morning, greasing the Pierce. Well not being in my shop & not having the proper grease gun I needed for the early flow through fittings, I had to improvise . Removed each fitting, one at a time and replaced it with a Zerk fitting for modern grease gun. After applying grease, I removed the Zerk fitting and put the proper fitting that was the original with the car back where it belonged. Needless to say it took me all morning to grease the car. Here is a pic of the proper fittings The left # 4 and # 11 are the ones. Edited February 16, 2016 by Hupp36 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Posted 2 ties Edited April 2, 2016 by Hupp36 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 The pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I'd reinstall the modern zerks next grease job and save the originals for Pebble Beach. The original tool roll (look under the front seat) had an item described as "compressor, grease" which was a pistol grip "liquid grease" dispenser (Liquid Grease being 600W gear oil (or as Pierce called it, Special Compound). One pushes on the pistol grip and the gun dispenses a small squirt of 600W. IMPORTANT: Don't use modern chassis grease or a modern grease gun on the fitting on the steering box! It will blow out the felt seal at the bottom of the steering box. Unscrew the early zerk (has no check ball) and pour in 600W or Penrite steering box lube (latter from Restoration Supply Co. in Escondido, CA) in 900/1200/1500 weights, depending on how much leakage you have. This takes awhile to drain down and burp out air. BTW, use 600W (the dark, smelly viscous stuff from Model T and A Ford vendors, NOT the honey-colored suspected-repackaged SAE 140) in both the trans and the (non-hypoid) differential. I like to leave the diffs 1/2 an inch low due to felt seals around the axle shafts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Are you saying that what they say special compound is w-600? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Yes. Pierce was tied to Enterprise Oil Co. in Buffalo, whose trade name for 600W was "special compound." That also made Pierce owners seek factory-authorized service when they couldn't find "special compound" by that name at parts houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Beginning with the 1929 model year, Pierces used modern-style zerks with check balls and no longer furnished the earlier push-type dispensers, and used pipe plugs on the steering box fill hole. To save the next mechanic, you might want to put a pipe plug in the steering box filler hole, and save the no-check-ball zerk for Pebble. No check ball meant it overflowed when full, so you wouldn't put too much pressure in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Thank you for you great help, I will make sure that I do the right thing as it is vary important to keep this fine car all it can be. I will get the proper lubricant.. I think the owner may take it to Amelia Island, not sure about Pebble Beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Glad to be of assistance, anytime. I use modern chassis grease via zerks for spring eyes, drag link, tie rod ends, king pins, and other suspension parts because that lasts, arguably, 1,000 miles vs. the much shorter intervals specified in the manuals when Special Compound or grease cups are used--but then I drive the cars more than *seriously* show them. For serious competition like Pebble or Amelia, by all means put the original fittings back in. If you used modern grease and a grease gun in your all-morning process, that should be good for 1,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Well I got the manual out and found the main needle valve carburetor setting. It said too turn the needle valve to its seat and then turn it back out 5/8 to 3/4 of a turn to the right. I measured the turns to the seat and found it to be 1 and 1/4 turns. That was the problem. After starting the car with the correct carburetor setting it ran good. I did notice by using the rich and lean knob on the dash , you could make it smoke black by turning it all the way to the rich setting. Did not have time to road test it today but will tomorrow. Ask me if I am a happy camper, YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 Well, had a great day the car ran super and a best of show trophy. Car running well is my trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Congratulations to you and the owner! She is a beauty and the embroidered interior is superb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 See you at Amelia, I'll have the 34 Green Packard on the field. You won't be able to miss it. Ed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Ed, I was looking forward to meeting you. The owner has made previous arrangements to show the car at a charity to raise money for autism. Me living in N.H. in the spring till winter hopefully we will meet in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 April 3rd. I will be taking the Pierce to the last show before I head north. I have had the time of my life taking care of this car. Driving it , going to car shows and talking to people about this fine automobile. We are having a Hupp Club meet in August 2016 in Geneva NY. I hope to be able, after the tour to visit the Pierce Arrow museum in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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