How rusty is too rusty?

[Guest Gashog]

This junker is special so I don't want to ruin it.

Anyone ever taken on a resto this far gone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[West Peterson]

I've seen much worse come back from the "dead." However, usually someone who does that much work to a car does it on something much more rare. So, it's basically just a matter of how much money you want to sink into it. The starting point is probably finding a rust-free southern car and doing a lot of metal swapping.

[Guest AlCapone]

Can you do the work yourself and then splash it with a rattle can? If so it might be worth it. If you are going to hire the work out I would keep looking as your final cost would very much exceed what the car us worth! Wayne

[Ed Luddy]

You better spend some time underneath that Swedish beauty and see how the frame rails and pans look as well as the cowl area.

 Brake & fuel lines and suspension points as well. Then spend a hour online and see how affordable a rust free one is.

 Even if you only value your time and self inflicted wounds from cutting rust away, (oh yeah, don't forget a Tetanus shot) at say $15 per hour, I think you can find a minty Volvo for less than the agony!!

[John_S_in_Penna]

This junker is special so I don't want to ruin it.

Anyone ever taken on a resto this far gone?

 

Evidently that particular car has special memories for Gas Hog.

Can you tell us more?

 

I agree with the advice given above.

You wouldn't restore that car unless it meant a lot to you,

and even then, have a professional look more deeply for 

hidden rust before you tackle it.

[1939_Buick]

You only see 10% 15% of the rust from 10ft away. Once you start cutting you will find more

That rust in front of the rear wheel looks to be in structural part of the car

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Volvo 240 series were iconic cars from the start. Many feel that they are one of the best cars ever built. Most, however will never see them as classic. Find your self a rust free one on line, have it painted this color and put these wheels on it. It doesn't have a soul, a personality or a consciousness. It won't be hurt that all you save of it are a few mementos like keys or a floor mat. When you open your mind to replacing it take a look at Volvo Bertones. They are like your 242, but with chopped roofs. I think that they have been undervalued for some time now.

[1937hd45]

It is only special to you and will most likely never be worth what you "invest" in it. Bob

[Rusty_OToole]

I used to fix them that bad and worse when I worked in body shops in the seventies and eighties. Most body repair panels are still available for Volvo like wheel arches. Get it on a hoist and poke around underneath with a screwdriver and hammer before you make up your mind to fix it.

 

You probably won't listen to good sense, most of our customers back in the day wouldn't.  Speaking of sentimental value, when a customer insisted we fix some shitbox that belonged in the junk yard my old boss used to say ' he must have got his first piece of ass in the back seat'.

 

Do you plan to fix it yourself or pay someone? Unless you like welding it will be easier and cheaper to just buy a Volvo in better condition.

[Guest Gashog]

Evidently that particular car has special memories for Gas Hog.

Can you tell us more?

I agree with the advice given above.

You wouldn't restore that car unless it meant a lot to you,

and even then, have a professional look more deeply for

hidden rust before you tackle it.

This being my first post and intro, I thought I'd test the waters!

Here it is in the Forza 4 video game.

Gamer magazine actually put an APB out on this Volvo. The programers for Forza 3 decided to scan and record the actual car for a Volvo "plug in"....but couldn't find a real one!

There were 500 built but most are M.I.A.

This car is so obscure, most Volvo enthusiasts debate weather it even existed!

I talked to a gentleman named Dan Johnston who assured me that they're real.

There are snippets of (mis)information on Wikipedia and other websites.

The story behind this car may never be fully told as Volvo employees were instructed in the '90s to purge a number of documents, some of which pertained to the 1983 242GLT intercooler.

I have two other 240 turbo two doors. One, I planned to sacrifice .

I have a decision to make, however; Shell swap...or try to patch the original car.

I've been putting off the project since 2012 so my Flathood Volvo is still in the same condition it was when I got it.

Runs hard!....goes down the road beautifull...Looks like a rusted out Volvo.

I don't have the money or the skill to pull off a factory finish on the donor car. It's silver.

The rusted car has been resprayed anyway. I blame lazy bondo work for the gaping rust holes.

It may not be as bad as it looks but, of course, I won't know how far gone it is untill I start taking things apart.

Since this car is only worth what it's worth to me (today anyway. Wait 'till one of these things make it to aution!) maybe I shouldn't obsess over the paint work.

I'm back and forth on this for the thousanth time.

At this point, someone else might have to make the call.

I need a fresh perspective.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[intimeold]

HOW RUSTY IS TOO RUSTY?

 

It can be summed up as: How much money do you have?

[DavidAU]

"I'm back and forth on this for the thousanth time.

At this point, someone else might have to make the call.

 

I need a fresh perspective".

 

 

I'll make the decision for you.  Scrap it.   There is a million heartaches in that rust.  Get a better body and transfer all the goodies.

 

If you are into that era Volvo you probably like this.  A guy named Robbie Francevic won the 1986 Australian Touring Car Championship against the  Mustangs, V8 Holden's, V12 jags etc. in one of those cars.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzK3LQtgIzA

[Guest Gashog]

"I'm back and forth on this for the thousanth time.

At this point, someone else might have to make the call.

I need a fresh perspective".

I'll make the decision for you. Scrap it. There is a million heartaches in that rust. Get a better body and transfer all the goodies.

If you are into that era Volvo you probably like this. A guy named Robbie Francevic won the 1986 Australian Touring Car Championship against the Mustangs, V8 Holden's, V12 jags etc. in one of those cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzK3LQtgIzA

One vote.....shell swap!

Edit: Also, I like this clip showing the unfair advantage Volvo had back then.

http://youtu.be/D0rtzYDXwbg

Edited February 4, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[vermontboy]

In upstate NY that isn't too bad. I've seen some 2006 and 2007 cars sent to the scrapper with basically non-repairable clip and frame damage from rust. Back in the 70's ,my 1970 Valiant (purchased new) had the tops of both front fenders completely rotted away in 1972 (two years later). Being married and in college with kids it got the boat cloth, bondo and rattle can treatment.

[Guest Gashog]

View from the drivers seat

[trickydicky43richard]

How rusty is too rusty ?..that car is too rusty,...forget it!

[Guest Gashog]

How rusty is too rusty ?..that car is too rusty,...forget it!

I'm beginning to see a pattern. You guys south of the equator don't drive your cars through calcium chloride and rock salt, do you?

[Guest Gashog]

Ok I'm going to bed.

I'll leave this here with the question.....

Build a car using a rust free shell (which I have) and everything off the Flathood

or take a rotabroach to both cars and rebuild the rusty shell (leaving as much of the original stuff like glass, plastic etc alone).

If I didn't feel obligated to preserve the originality of the car, there'd be no question.

I wouldnt take it on. I have a hotrod 242 already.

[padgett]

Is the back end of a 91 780 turbo the same ?

[nick8086]

HOW RUSTY IS TOO RUSTY?

 

It can be summed up as: How much money do you have?

Edited February 4, 2016 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Now I'm a little puzzled. I think most of us thought that your attachment to this car was going to be sentimental. You didn't tell us that it had special performance qualities. Maybe you should speak to the nature of them. It seems to me that on one hand there doesn't appear to be any factory documentation to support the "numbers matching" justification for fixing it. But on the other hand, if there is some sport suspension, heavy braking or differential difference between your car and a stock Volvo, then you're talking about a whole lot of swapping to switch to another body. Maybe you should tell us what makes this model unique.

[Guest Gashog]

Now I'm a little puzzled. I think most of us thought that your attachment to this car was going to be sentimental. You didn't tell us that it had special performance qualities. Maybe you should speak to the nature of them. It seems to me that on one hand there doesn't appear to be any factory documentation to support the "numbers matching" justification for fixing it. But on the other hand, if there is some sport suspension, heavy braking or differential difference between your car and a stock Volvo, then you're talking about a whole lot of swapping to switch to another body. Maybe you should tell us what makes this model unique.

I do love this car. It's one of those things that only someone like me would appreciate.

To everyone else, it's a pile of junk.

As far as I can tell, this picture below is what makes it unique.

It's a special order performance car. Volvo didn't do it again untill the yellow 850T5R.....and now the Polestar.

I'm not sure what it is about this Volvo but, as rusty as it is, it goes down the road like no stock 240 I've ever driven.

When you over compress the suspension, you can feel all the bump stops working.

It rebounds without bouncing.

There are no rattles or squeaks.

It corners flat and hard but is comfortable and compliant.

When the RPM switch clicks, you're pushed into your seat. I've had two other 242 turbos with dealer installed intercoolers and one '84 factory intercooled car (there were 2500 built in '84). None ran like this.

It pulls in 3rd gear hard enough to walk my 940 turbo with 3" exhaust and old style T3 turbo.

It's faster and was more expensive then a '79 Corvette.

One blog I posted earlier, said that the owners of these cars thought they were faster somehow.

I'm definitely one of those guys. My car is very fast for a stock 242GLT intercooled.

Edit: Probably because it's missing 500 Lb of sheet metal!! Ba-Da-BING!!

Edited February 4, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Rust weighs more than clean steel but holes don't.

[West Peterson]

I think the car is worthy of restoration, definitely. Will you ever get your money back out of it? No, but then rarely do restorations result in that. I also think you are not the only one who can get excited about a car like this. Mr. and Mrs. Average Joe couldn't care less, but auto enthusiasts such as us can certainly understand. I still feel that you're going to need to find a rust-free parts car. Any and all boxed-in frame sub-structures will be corroding from the inside, so even if you fix what you can see, it won't take long before the stuff you can't see causes problems. You need to do a whole lot of metal swapping, short of popping the VIN from one car to the next.

[60FlatTop]

Just to make a general statement; looking back over the decades I real have no regrets about things I DID. It's the things I DIDN'T do that haunt me a little.

Bernie

[Guest Gashog]

I think the car is worthy of restoration, definitely. Will you ever get your money back out of it? No, but then rarely do restorations result in that. I also think you are not the only one who can get excited about a car like this. Mr. and Mrs. Average Joe couldn't care less, but auto enthusiasts such as us can certainly understand. I still feel that you're going to need to find a rust-free parts car. Any and all boxed-in frame sub-structures will be corroding from the inside, so even if you fix what you can see, it won't take long before the stuff you can't see causes problems. You need to do a whole lot of metal swapping, short of popping the VIN from one car to the next.

 

I have done this and would do it again.

As long as the car is not stolen, I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep and even CSI Miami could never prove it.

Having publically admitted that, I would die a homeless junkie before I sold a hack job to anyone without full disclosure and probably only for parts. My current winter beater is a zipper car actually.

 

That's what is killing me about my rusted 242. I HAVE a rust free '83. It's mine...in my name...I drove it!

It's gutted after part-out and I could very easily (maybe not easily) strip my rusted car and swap all the special order pieces over....including the numbers.

Add paint and Bob's your uncle!

 

The only problem is, where to draw the line?

If I stripped the clean body right down to the shell, sent it out to be prepared and painted, got it back as new, hung it on a couple engine stands and transfered parts piece by piece from the rused 242, would it be morally equal to bolting in a nicer set of front seats from a different car?

Could I rationalize a shell swap if I thought of it like replacing a rusted out frame?

 

My other option is to, again, take a Rotabroach to both cars and start swapping panels.

 

I have helped restore cars.

In College, I worked part time in a foreign auto repair/JY/resto shop.

The owner liked British sports cars.

I fabricated a rocker panel for a Bugeye Sprite once.

 

I was a dealer tech for 13 years and have turned wrenches for ~30 years.

The only thing stopping me from a shell swap is the preparation of the shell.

 

I feel like if I don't have it blasted, rust proofed, primed and painted as close to factory finish as possible, it's no better then a cut and go.

I don't have the money for that!

Edited February 4, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

I think it would easier and better in the long run to switch the entire shell (If you can find a good one???).  As far as the VIN, it can be done.  I'm an insurance adjuster and truck cabs are replaced routinely due to collision damage.  They just swap the vin tag onto the new cab after notifying the state licensing folks.  As long as you can document what you are doing, it should be fine.

Edited February 4, 2016 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[padgett]

Depends on where you are. To do that using two cars you legally own does not seem to be an issue. OTOH if the parts come from three cars then Florida would issue a new VIN. Suspect some piles of rust have been resurrected that way.

 

Similarly swapping a VIN tag seems verboden. Swapping the whole cowl OTOH...

 

Suspect that some T-bucket's have a new body, frame, and all major components but are still titled as a Model T.

 

So how far you can go and with what to bring a car back really depends on your state's DMV if you plan on registration. What was used & disclosure is only a factor if you try to sell it.

[Guest Gashog]

In the past, I have done what is known as a "907-A".

 

I bought a V8 quad cab Dakota with only a few thousand miles and a couple years on it.

It had been in a pretty knarly accident.

The restoration and inspection appointment took, all in all, about a year with a trip to Kingston.

I pretty much mail ordered everything except airbags.

I saved every receipt and even masked off the RDOT stickers.

I showed up to the inspection with a book of documentation!

They    at me, gave the truck a 5 minute once over and sent me home with a salvage title.

No big deal.

 

With a historic and potentially valuable car, I think I would keep the beurocrats out of it.

 

I guess what I could do to make myself feel better, is change the color.

Maybe a racecar poly white paint job that I could prep and spray myself.

If someone did buy the car for what it is, they'd do it knowing it would have to be stripped bare and completely refinished to be correct.

There would be no question, even to a non expert, that an extensive restoration had been done.

 

Edit: This is the last paint job I did before winter.

I had a fender bender at work. I pulled out of a Quick Check in a dump truck, missed a shift and wound up getting tangled up with a silver Camry.

Partly his fault so we agreed to take care of it without going through insurance.

 

 

I actually had to age the fender after I bolted it on, it came out so perfect.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I sense that you feel strongly about this car as something of a legacy. I think that you will likely decide to restore this particular body. That's fine, it's only money and you will feel a well deserved sense of pride for having kept the car authentic. You might be the type of purist that a mere serial number plate swap on a car that is this important to you would keep you up nights. Perhaps a preliminary step would be to cut up the donor car thus getting a look at the other side of body panels and how they are integrated into the whole. You might want to talk to a qualified body man about where to make your cuts so as to not come up short later. If you had that task behind you, you may feel more positive about going forward with the project. With the consultation of a good body man, you might be able to do more prep work on the "to be repaired" car and save a few bucks. If you are looking for advice, we got plenty of it here. If you are looking for support making a irrational decision, well, we've all been there, too.

[emjay]

With the many car related forums it's easy to find examples of virtually nothing being rebuild for anything from valuable classics to common econo-sedans.  For most in the hobby it's a passion, but there are secondary benefits.  Besides the sentimental value there's the challenge, the desire to learn new skills, or just something to do.  Rather than trying to justify the vehicle and the repairs, the vehicle may be the justification for the tools and facilities.  It's a lifestyle.  It's good exercise and a good alternative to running to the gym.  Idle hands are .....  Don't forget that it's greener to restore since less is consumered compared to a new car.  Does one ponder so much about having children?   Ever run the numbers? 

 

It's simple.  You either want to do it or you don't.  If you jump in and give up, don't worry someone will come along and thank you for devaluing it by having an unfinished project.

 

The unfair aspect is many of potential vehicles being trashed in non-rust belt areas because the locals can't deal with a little rust while the rest of us have much less to work with.  Recyclers should scrap, they should just ship it north.  Let the the scrapping be done at the top of the rust chain.  Or is that the bottom?, 

[Guest Cajun Ty]

With the many car related forums it's easy to find examples of virtually nothing being rebuild for anything from valuable classics to common econo-sedans. For most in the hobby it's a passion, but there are secondary benefits. Besides the sentimental value there's the challenge, the desire to learn new skills, or just something to do. Rather than trying to justify the vehicle and the repairs, the vehicle may be the justification for the tools and facilities. It's a lifestyle. It's good exercise and a good alternative to running to the gym. Idle hands are ..... Don't forget that it's greener to restore since less is consumered compared to a new car. Does one ponder so much about having children? Ever run the numbers?

It's simple. You either want to do it or you don't. If you jump in and give up, don't worry someone will come along and thank you for devaluing it by having an unfinished project.

The unfair aspect is many of potential vehicles being trashed in non-rust belt areas because the locals can't deal with a little rust while the rest of us have much less to work with. Recyclers should scrap, they should just ship it north. Let the the scrapping be done at the top of the rust chain. Or is that the bottom?,

This is right on

[Guest Gashog]

It's funny....when I was in San Diego, I told stories about good running vehicles being driven to the junk yards.

A couple guys I told asked me to bring cars west.

I entertained the idea of bringing rusty pickups west and trading them, at auction, for rust free, worn out trucks to bring east.

 

I was replacing front shocks on an old Chevy in Las Vegas.

I started the way I always do. Deep 1/2" socket and 8" extension...bend the top shock stud back and forth untill it brakes off!

The other guys in the shop looked at me like I had two heads.

One of them picked up my air ratchet and blew the nut off in 5 seconds!

[padgett]

Yup, since I moved to Orlando thutty yar ago I have not broken a bolt removing an exhaust manifold.

[Rusty_OToole]

Under the circumstances I would consider repairing the car. First step is to get underneath and inspect every inch of the body carefully, photograph every inch and make notes of what needs repair.

 

Do the same with the outside.

 

Now get busy on the net and see if repair panels are available. If not don't worry, most panels can be made from sheet metal or cut from a junkyard donor.

 

Next question, do you have a shop and do you have any experience welding up rusty cars? If you do, you should be able to do it yourself. If not, that is too big a project for a beginner. I'm not saying you couldn't do it but it is better not to overmatch yourself in your first bout.

 

I want to be crystal clear here. If it was JUST the rust damage we see on the outside I would say go ahead and fix it up. Even if there are some small holes underneath, I would say fix it up. But if there is major structural damage underneath then no.

 

Another issue is how much will it reduce the value of the car to have had bodywork done compared to a pristine example? Compared to a reshell? If the work is done properly it should not make much difference. Neither would be worth as much as a car that never had major repairs. But, if the Volvo experts say it would be worth a lot more with the special parts transferred to a good shell maybe that would influence your decision.

 

To sum up: It would be quite possible to repair that car but not an economically sound choice EXCEPT in the case of an irreplaceable car.  So go ahead and fix it up UNLESS the body shell is seriously compromised underneath.

 

Assess the needed repairs, prepare and estimate of time and materials, map out a plan and go from there.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest Gashog]

Under the circumstances I would consider repairing the car. First step is to get underneath and inspect every inch of the body carefully, photograph every inch and make notes of what needs repair.

 

Do the same with the outside.

 

Now get busy on the net and see if repair panels are available. If not don't worry, most panels can be made from sheet metal or cut from a junkyard donor.

 

Next question, do you have a shop and do you have any experience welding up rusty cars? If you do, you should be able to do it yourself. If not, that is too big a project for a beginner. I'm not saying you couldn't do it but it is better not to overmatch yourself in your first bout.

 

I want to be crystal clear here. If it was JUST the rust damage we see on the outside I would say go ahead and fix it up. Even if there are some small holes underneath, I would say fix it up. But if there is major structural damage underneath then no.

 

Another issue is how much will it reduce the value of the car to have had bodywork done compared to a pristine example? Compared to a reshell? If the work is done properly it should not make much difference. Neither would be worth as much as a car that never had major repairs. But, if the Volvo experts say it would be worth a lot more with the special parts transferred to a good shell maybe that would influence your decision.

 

To sum up: It would be quite possible to repair that car but not an economically sound choice EXCEPT in the case of an irreplaceable car.  So go ahead and fix it up UNLESS the body shell is seriously compromised underneath.

 

Assess the needed repairs, prepare and estimate of time and materials, map out a plan and go from there.

 

I have a donor car. The front clip is deer collision damaged but from the front bumper mounts to the rear bumper mounts is fairly straight and definitely rust free.

I am 100% open to broaching each and every spot weld one by one.

I can un install the rear quarters, rear floor pan, maybe even the rocker panels. Basically anything I can think of unless the rockers are double layered or something.

 

I haven't been under the car since replacing the rear axle (I bought it with a blown rear) but I definitely wasn't concerned regarding the condition of the rear suspension mounting points or the structural integrity of the unibody.

The floor, I think, is solid. No water leaks from above.

There are things that happen, through carelessness, to these cars that cause them to rust.

I think this may be one of those cars that was "damaged" in this way. Compounded by someone with an 80 grit sanding disk and a tub of Bondo.

 

If I do find the floor is rusted through, I will need to consult with a rust pro on how to strategically replace sections.

I'm a good welder but I'm not a body man.

I've done plenty but I'm no expert.

 

Few repair panels available.

I have no intentions of selling the car. I know that restorations are almost always a money pit.

If I can preserve the car and keep it from disintegrating, someone with more money can restore it properly (assuming it becomes valuable).

 

There was one of these cars on Ebay some time ago.

Supposedly mint, low miles and one owner original.

The guy had the build sticker with the list price right on it.

That was his starting bid.

I think it was $17,785 or something.

He took the auction down after a couple three days.

Probably shipped it back to the homeland.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I parted an 83 GLT a couple of years ago that looked at least as bad as yours. When I started really getting down to the basic shell I was surprised how little of the important inner body shell, Susp. pick up points, cabin floor etc was showing rust. Most of the outer panels were toast, F. fenders , both doors  1/4's and outer wheelhouses. But the car was repairable if someone wanted to.  It was just a Canadian {non turbo} GLT, and as such not very high value.  Your Factory "motorsport" version is probably unique enough to save.

 

Greg in Canada

[Guest Gashog]

I parted an 83 GLT a couple of years ago that looked at least as bad as yours. When I started really getting down to the basic shell I was surprised how little of the important inner body shell, Susp. pick up points, cabin floor etc was showing rust. Most of the outer panels were toast, F. fenders , both doors  1/4's and outer wheelhouses. But the car was repairable if someone wanted to.  It was just a Canadian {non turbo} GLT, and as such not very high value.  Your Factory "motorsport" version is probably unique enough to save.

 

Greg in Canada

 

That's my feeling also.

I squished a 1981 242 DL that was rusted badly.

The floor was gone so I patched it with a Nan Hayworth sign, a can of Great Stuff foam and a garbage bag.

When I say "I squished" I mean I  ripped it to pieces with a Komatsu PC-50 and wadded it into the back of my mason dump.

 

I also was surprised how much of the shell was intact.

I had 5 two door Volvos in the yard at the time, so this one I sacrificed to Odin.

 

Edit: Yeah..This is the good side!

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

Here is a nice one in Tucson AZ.  Not the same body style ,but  a coupe that is rust free and probably cheaper than doing all the repair work one that one.  Just my opinion. 

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/5433935859.html

[Guest Gashog]

Here is a nice one in Tucson AZ.  Not the same body style ,but  a coupe that is rust free and probably cheaper than doing all the repair work one that one.  Just my opinion. 

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/5433935859.html

 

Here's another surviving 1983 242GLT intercooler

Most people will never see one, other then in the video game.

 

 

Here's my other 242. It's a fake Flathood

 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Gashog (see edit history)