Going to look at a 1971 Buick Riviera

[zipdang]

Hello,

 

From reading the many interesting topics on this forum, it's easy to see that there is no lack of advice on about any topic. So now I'm asking.

 

I'm going to look at a 1971 Buick Riviera Thursday morning. It is a "barn find" of sorts as it has been stored for 25 years. The seller states that it is a 2 owner car (second owners were his parents) and it is completely original - 455 engine, etc. He has had a mechanic check it over and made a list of things that need attention. It has been started and driven just around a parking lot. Brakes work but of course need attention. I am familiar with all that should be checked on a car stored this long. Here are my questions:

 

1. Assuming the body is decent (pictures look great), do these boattail Riverieras have any noteworthy problems I should look for?

2. What is a reasonable price for this car? I know the guesswork involved here with the scant information I've provided. Just looking for ballpark figure along with any predictions for future collectibility or value.

3. Parts availability. I'll guess that mechanicals wouldn't be a problem. How about trim, interior, body, etc.

 

Thank you for any help. This came up quickly and I won't have time to do any research between then and now except for this plea for help.

 

Karl

 

[Guest AlCapone]

After being stored for 25 years I am somewhat surprised the mechanic took it for a ride without first draining the stale gasoline out of it. I would have thought he would have thoroughly drained the gas tank and not allow the crud to contaminate the entire fuel system. Without photographs to do a sparse visual inspection of the exterior, interior and underside, a ballpark estimate is meaningless. Good luck, Wayne

Edited January 20, 2016 by AlCapone (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

How do we know that the fuel wasn't drained? If it was started and driven, then I would assume that proper precautions were taken. Besides, it is old tech. A fuel pump and a Quadrajet. Not much to go wrong or get gunked up. a 20 buck carb kit and a new fuel filter will do wonders. If the car is in, overall, good shape then it will do nothing but increase in value. The boattails are under appreciated, compared to the first series. I imagine eBay would be a good place to check to see what they're going for in the real world

[1939_Buick]

2. What is a reasonable price for this car? I know the guesswork involved here with the scant information I've provided

Half what the seller wants and twice what the buyer wants to pay

 

After 25 years sitting highly likely their are problems. Why was it unused or not sold for 25 years?

[padgett]

I always liked the '73 better...

[Guest AlCapone]

How do we know that the fuel wasn't drained? If it was started and driven, then I would assume that proper precautions were taken. Besides, it is old tech. A fuel pump and a Quadrajet. Not much to go wrong or get gunked up. a 20 buck carb kit and a new fuel filter will do wonders. If the car is in, overall, good shape then it will do nothing but increase in value. The boattails are under appreciated, compared to the first series. I imagine eBay would be a good place to check to see what they're going for in the real world

Don't assume because as you should know by now, assume spells Ass U Me ! Wayne

[8E45E]

I always liked the '73 better...

I've never heard anyone ever say that before!

 

Myself and most others like them the least of the three boattail model years as the tail got flatter in 1973 with the licence plate got mounted on the center of the bumper, and the front got that ghastly 5-mph bumper.   My favorite is the 1972 model year boattail Riv., as it got rid of those nasty vents on the trunk lid while retaining the nice, sharply defined tail.

 

Craig

[West Peterson]

I've never heard anyone ever say that before!

 

Myself and most others like them the least of the three boattail model years as the tail got flatter in 1973 with the licence plate got mounted on the center of the bumper, and the front got that ghastly 5-mph bumper.   My favorite is the 1972 model year boattail Riv., as it got rid of those nasty vents on the trunk lid while retaining the nice, sharply defined tail.

 

Craig

Agreed.

[zipdang]

Thanks for the comments and my apologies for the slim amount of information. It is all I have to go on. I've always loved these boattail Rivieras and apparently the years I like would be the '71 or '72 from looking at ebay pictures. What I've seen from those listings (and others into the wee hours last night) show that the price my seller is looking for is quite reasonable if the car checks out. I'll know more tomorrow morning...

[John_S_in_Penna]

I have had a '73 Riviera for years, and yes, they are

excellent, affordable cars.  You should not let the

availability of parts--exterior or interior--worry you,

because the boat-tails are popular enough that you

should be able to locate what you need.  And

mechanical parts I have found to be readily available.

 

Don't worry about the future value of a car--no one knows,

no matter what he tries to predict.  Enjoy the fact that 

these cars are still reasonably priced.  Go in with your

eyes open, and enjoy!

Edited January 20, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest]

I've never heard anyone ever say that before!

 

Myself and most others like them the least of the three boattail model years as the tail got flatter in 1973 with the licence plate got mounted on the center of the bumper, and the front got that ghastly 5-mph bumper.   My favorite is the 1972 model year boattail Riv., as it got rid of those nasty vents on the trunk lid while retaining the nice, sharply defined tail.

 

Craig

Well you now have another one saying that. The rear bumper is the 73's fortune. The rear end is more pleasing not to have a rear battering ram sticking out.

[8E45E]

The rear end is more pleasing not to have a rear battering ram sticking out.

I'd rather have it looking more like a log splitter than a battering ram.

 

Craig

[John_S_in_Penna]

The rear bumper is the 73's fortune. The rear end is more pleasing... 

 

I prefer the symmetry and grace of the 1973's rear bumper, too.

(The 1971-72 bumpers have the license plate off to the side.)

However, I agree with others that the 1971-72 front ends look better.

 

Buyers agreed back then that the 1974 Riviera had even less distinction.

Once Buick eliminated the boat-tail, that body style didn't have much

going for it--

Edited January 20, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Buyers agreed back then that the 1974 Riviera had even less distinction.

I don't even want to think about the '74 - '76!  They suddenly got hit with the biggest UGLY STICK in car making ever; especially from the rear!  

 

I saw a 'nice' one at a car show with low miles and original paint, and I could not even bring myself to take a photo of it!  (My feelings for them are the same as the one I made in Richard Langworth's 'Buyer's Guide' on Buick over 25 years ago.)

 

Craig

[TG57Roadmaster]

Count me among the lovers of the '73. I like the massive front and flattened rear bumper, always have since they were new. That doesn't help the OP's question though.

 

Zipdang,

 

You really should ask this question below in Buick General or  Riviera Forums (scroll down). Folks either love the '71-'72 (and '73) or they hate 'em. With the '71 you get the purity of that Gen's first design; louvered/ventilated trunk, engine-turned (plasticene) dash, the shock factor of the styling. 

 

Check the condition of the plastic engine-turned dash fascia.  Ask Buick owners, check ebay like others have said.

 

What color is it? Some, of course, are better than others. 

http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1971-Buick-pg01.jpg

 

Buckets, bench seat?

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Buick/1971_Buick/1971_Buick_Brochure/1971%20Buick-05.html

 

Don't expect to hit the lottery with the car, ever, but enjoy it as the FINE, powerful, luxury tourer that it is.

 

TG

[padgett]

Look at the 63-65 Riv or 68-70 Skylark. As with the 71-73 Riv, Buick was famous for getting a new design the way it was intended in the third year. Sales strategy.

[Guest]

I prefer the symmetry and grace of the 1973's rear bumper, too.

(The 1971-72 bumpers have the license plate off to the side.)

However, I agree with others that the 1971-72 front ends look better.

 

Buyers agreed back then that the 1974 Riviera had even less distinction.

Once Buick eliminated the boat-tail, that body style didn't have much

going for it--

I agree with you on both counts. I suppose if I were looking for a Riviera boat tail today I would go for the lesser of two evil and the 73 would be my choice.

I knew of a 61 Pontiac Catalina bubble top that had a 62 Pontiac front end or clip installed because the owner wanted a 62 bubble top. FYI no mounting fabrication required as everything just bolts up.

[Guest]

Look at the 63-65 Riv or 68-70 Skylark. As with the 71-73 Riv, Buick was famous for getting a new design the way it was intended in the third year. Sales strategy.

No doubt about it especially for Mitchell's pre production dream Riviera and the 65 comes closest to the concept car.

[padgett]

Have thought for years that GM employed "ugly" stylists who specialized in making the loss leaders look cheap

[8E45E]

No doubt about it especially for Mitchell's pre production dream Riviera and the 65 comes closest to the concept car.

The '65 is my all-time favorite Riv.; followed closely by the '66-'67's.

 

Craig

[John_S_in_Penna]

Mr. Zipdang, the original poster, asked if we knew of

any problem areas on the 1971 Rivieras.

 

I can think of one relatively minor one, but it might be

applicable only to the 1972-73 models.  The rear bumper

had a rubber impact strip attached.  The rubber strip,

unfortunately, has a steel plate embedded in the rubber

over the length of the strip;  and the steel corrodes, leaving

the rubber uneven and even separating from the steel.

This was common on many, many GM cars of the early 1970's.

 

I replaced mine years ago and had a very hard time finding

a nice used rubber strip.  They might be reproduced now, however.

 

I don't know whether '71's offered the rubber strips,

since the catalogue pictures show plain chrome without a strip.

And GM learned from their mistake, eliminating the steel 

a few years later and using rubber only.

Edited January 21, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[padgett]

'65 with dual quads & THM.

Edited January 21, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[zipdang]

Well, I'm back from seeing the Riviera. I am smitten. First of all, I'll apologize for the lousy pictures posted here. I was on my way home when I realized I'd forgotten to take pictures. These pictures are pulled from the flyer on a bulletin board at my wife's office. Hmph.

 

At any rate, the car appears quite solid. No visible rust on the outside which includes up inside the wheel wells, but squeezing myself underneath there was rust on the inner rockers and the inside lower front fenders. This is currently sitting in the storage are of a bustling repair shop that incidently was currently working on a mid '70s Eldorado convertible, a Chevy convertible of the same era, and a Willys Jeepster amongst the many modern cars.

 

The mechanic who looked it over states that it needs a radiator, exhaust, tires, brakes, transmission rear seal, differential driveshaft seal, and belts/hoses. The only thing I could see missing was the button for opening the rear deck from inside the car. Key works fine though.

 

He is obviously interested in just getting rid of his Mom's car and making any money from it isn't a priority. I've left him an offer that he is considering. So far I'm the only one who responded to his flyer. Since he works with my wife in the same place, maybe that will score some points.

 

If he chooses not to take my offer (we're pretty close) I told him that's O.K. and I'll just go home thinking what a close call it was for me to have another car! I'll certainly let you know what happens.

 

As asked by DG57Roadmaster, I  would have to say it is the bamboo cream with brown vinyl top and a bench seat.

 

 

[Guest AlCapone]

Did you want to disclose ask and offer price? Wayne

[zipdang]

AlCapone:

 

I generally keep prices to myself - especially if a car isn't mine yet. I can hear my dad's voice now about disclosing what was paid for a car. You don't disclose what you paid because:

1. If you think you got a great deal, folks will come out of the woodwork to tell you that you were robbed, making you feel just great.

2. If you overpaid for something you really like, those same folks will think you're an idiot.

3. When you go to sell, the knowledge of what you paid usually muddies the water.

Personally, I don't really care what others think but I sure can get tired of their opinions.

Now, after all that rambling, I will tell you that I offered 2/3 of his price and he did come down some, but said he'd do some thinking about coming down the rest of the way.

 

I love this forum! The knowledge, courtesy, storytelling, and opinions are unmatched. Thank you all!

[Guest AlCapone]

AlCapone:

 

I generally keep prices to myself - especially if a car isn't mine yet. I can hear my dad's voice now about disclosing what was paid for a car. You don't disclose what you paid because:

1. If you think you got a great deal, folks will come out of the woodwork to tell you that you were robbed, making you feel just great.

2. If you overpaid for something you really like, those same folks will think you're an idiot.

3. When you go to sell, the knowledge of what you paid usually muddies the water.

Personally, I don't really care what others think but I sure can get tired of their opinions.

Now, after all that rambling, I will tell you that I offered 2/3 of his price and he did come down some, but said he'd do some thinking about coming down the rest of the way.

 

I love this forum! The knowledge, courtesy, storytelling, and opinions are unmatched. Thank you all!

In your very first post you asked us about a price so I think it was appropriate to ask the question I did. Not dislosing prices does not assist us in helping you. Enough said! Wayne

[8E45E]

Personally, I don't really care what others think but I sure can get tired of their opinions.

In the end, its up to YOU, as its your money, not ours. 

 

If you feel its worth what you want to spend for the condition its in, definitely go ahead with the deal and enjoy it!

 

And what else do you expect from a Forum such as this one which caters to a variety of ALL makes cars and trucks from ALL countries of the world from ALL years since the beginning of the automobile?  You are bound to get opinions, including the ones I made already.

 

Craig

[padgett]

Just remember, a roll of benjamins in your hand can be quite a motivator particularly if the spouse sees it.

[Guest AlCapone]

In the end, its up to YOU, as its your money, not ours. 

 

If you feel its worth what you want to spend for the condition its in, definitely go ahead with the deal and enjoy it!

 

And what else do you expect from a Forum such as this one which caters to a variety of ALL makes cars and trucks from ALL countries of the world from ALL years since the beginning of the automobile?  You are bound to get opinions, including the ones I made already.

 

Craig

Craig. He got what he asked for and you did good work. My dad used to say, be careful what you ask for because you might just get it! Wayne

[Rusty_OToole]

In your very first post you asked us about a price so I think it was appropriate to ask the question I did. Not dislosing prices does not assist us in helping you. Enough said! Wayne

Good point. So many guys come here wanting a free appraisal on some car they want to buy or sell, what is wrong with asking for a little feedback? If you won't share with  us why should we share with you?

Edited January 22, 2016 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

Good point. So many guys come here wanting a free appraisal on some car they want to buy or sell, what is wrong with asking for a little feedback? If you won't share with  us why should we share with you?

Good point Rusty...comradary and cooperation are two way streets, wayne

[zipdang]

AlCapone, Rusty, and all the rest. I am grateful for the discussion. Probably due to my upbringing (certainly) about keeping what I spend quiet. Guess I've always viewed that as something completely different from asking advice. I may ask for advice or give it if asked my opinion of relative value on a vehicle, but I would never ask anyone what they ultimately spent on something. At any rate, I hope you don't think I'm just seeking free advice. I have never bought a vehicle in order to make money. It's just nice to know that one hasn't been stung to deeply and where else to get ideas than from those who have so much more experience than I have. I've noticed many others seeking the same advice, going on to buy a vehicle, and not divulging what they spent. All part of the shared knowledge of the hobby.

 

Again, my sincere thanks and my sincere apologies if I've given the wrong impression of myself. Now, knowing the wife is on board, all I need to see in the next few days is if the seller will budge a bit, sell it elsewhere, or my self control disappears!

[JZRIV]

Welcome to the Forum. The car looks pretty straight in pics and fully intact. If the bumpers are straight and ding free and the plastic grille is not cracked that's a big plus. Most common rust area is just above the rear wheel well molding. If its solid there with no repair, chnaces are the rest of car is rock solid. Parts that are model specific for these cars are increasingly difficult to locate and that's coming from someone who has 35 years of parts contacts. When you do locate them they can be very expensive comparatively to other makes and models. One of the biggest complaints I hear from new Riviera owners who are used to mainstream classics where you can pick up a catalog and order any part needed is why is it so hard to find parts and why is everything so expensive.

Based on what I see and hear I wouldn't pay more than $5000 for the car. You'll easily have $2k min to get it safe a reliable to drive and that's assuming only basics and you do the work yourself. Trust me what seems like basic maintenance adds up real fast. If you have to pay a mechanic, double it. If you just want to look at in the garage or maybe drive it around the block then you can cut some maintenance cost out.

These are great driving cars for as big as they are and a real pleasure to drive. The good thing is the mechanical repair parts are readily available and reasonably priced as far as Riv parts go. I restored a 71 GS and currently own a 73. Put a set of chrome road wheels on and it totally changes the personality of the car.

Oh, a power trunk release was optional and not real common in 71. Are you sure it has the electric solenoid on the opener in trunk?

Edited January 22, 2016 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[zipdang]

Hello JZRIV,

 

Positive on the solenoid in the truck. It's right next to the latch mechanism with wires running from it. When I first sat in it, I was transported back to high school in a big car that Dad would've loved. I feel my fortitude diminishing on standing firm on my offer! Grill is not cracked, and on my inspection where it was tough to see everything because of it's storage comrades, I didn't see any dents in the bumpers or anywhere.

[Guest]

Well, I'm back from seeing the Riviera. I am smitten. First of all, I'll apologize for the lousy pictures posted here. I was on my way home when I realized I'd forgotten to take pictures. These pictures are pulled from the flyer on a bulletin board at my wife's office. Hmph.

 

At any rate, the car appears quite solid. No visible rust on the outside which includes up inside the wheel wells, but squeezing myself underneath there was rust on the inner rockers and the inside lower front fenders. This is currently sitting in the storage are of a bustling repair shop that incidently was currently working on a mid '70s Eldorado convertible, a Chevy convertible of the same era, and a Willys Jeepster amongst the many modern cars.

 

The mechanic who looked it over states that it needs a radiator, exhaust, tires, brakes, transmission rear seal, differential driveshaft seal, and belts/hoses. The only thing I could see missing was the button for opening the rear deck from inside the car. Key works fine though.

 

He is obviously interested in just getting rid of his Mom's car and making any money from it isn't a priority. I've left him an offer that he is considering. So far I'm the only one who responded to his flyer. Since he works with my wife in the same place, maybe that will score some points.

 

If he chooses not to take my offer (we're pretty close) I told him that's O.K. and I'll just go home thinking what a close call it was for me to have another car! I'll certainly let you know what happens.

 

As asked by DG57Roadmaster, I  would have to say it is the bamboo cream with brown vinyl top and a bench seat.

One thing that I forgot to add in my comments. You should check very carefully the condition of the roof when the car has a vinyl roof, especially 1/2 vinyl roof because of the prep work before the v. roof was put on was usually very poor.

[Ed Luddy]

I like that car! As they say, Bill Mitchell went out with a bang on this design.

[zipdang]

One thing that I forgot to add in my comments. You should check very carefully the condition of the roof when the car has a vinyl roof, especially 1/2 vinyl roof because of the prep work before the v. roof was put on was usually very poor.

 

That was something I did check. No signs of peeling or bubbles anywhere. A small spot right above the driver has what looks like a dab of clear sealant but no signs of rust are apparent. Thanks for noting this. I've seen quite a few vinyl tops with bubbles around the edge and rust stains running down the car.

[John_S_in_Penna]

...Probably due to my upbringing (certainly) about keeping what I spend quiet.... I would never ask anyone what they ultimately spent on something...

 

Mr. Zipdang, I think you have a good approach, friendly and modest.

And of course you can ask for free advice:  that's what

all your fellow hobbyists on the Forum are here for!

Even we experienced car fans may give advice here,

yet ask for advice on some other topic.

 

There are at least a couple of good internet sites

for getting an estimate of a car's value:

www.hagerty.com

www.nada.com

 

The N.A.D.A. site typically has higher prices than most, however,

and the preface to their book says their prices are for ALL-ORIGINAL cars.

So Hagerty (an insurer of collector cars) might be most appropriate.

Do you know the numerical 1-to-6 rating scale commonly used for

classic cars?  #1 is a perfect award-winner, trailered to shows;

#3 is a car with some minor blemishes, often seen at local car shows;

#6 is useful only for parts.

 

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I would say that car is between #3 and #4.

Edited January 23, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest]

That was something I did check. No signs of peeling or bubbles anywhere. A small spot right above the driver has what looks like a dab of clear sealant but no signs of rust are apparent. Thanks for noting this. I've seen quite a few vinyl tops with bubbles around the edge and rust stains running down the car.

Just my personal preference, I think the car looks so much cleaner without the vinyl roof. But that vinyl really hides not only rust problems, but shabby work. Ask anyone who decided to remove one and do a car over without it. What you need to do is Knead with your fingers the vinyl roof all over before you pass judgment for soundness.

That aside, I once saw a 73 Riviera at a car show that knocked me down. Red exterior, with Wildcat mag wheels, 3/4 " W Wall tires with a white interior. The car was a stunner and is always in my memory that if I ever had one that is the way I would do it.

These cars are affordable today, pay particular attention to the dash and the interior trim. Mechanicals are not a problem.

I love them....Just think a full size Stingray!

Edited January 23, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Just my personal preference, I think the car looks so much cleaner without the vinyl roof.... 

 

It's interesting how every individual has his own

preferences for styling.  I like them best WITH 

vinyl roofs, especially the half vinyl roofs more

commonly seen on the 1972-73 models.

Without vinyl roofs, premium cars from that era

look to me like price-leader low-cost "Plain Jane" cars,

which they often were back in the 1970's.

 

I like to see a car kept as it came in its own era,

not modifying it for today's changed tastes.

Edited January 24, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)