Help with 1917 to 1932 Dodge and Graham Brothers truck serial number

[stakeside]

I do not have start numbers for models: BE, ME, IE, DA-130 and DA-140. If someone has these parts manuals I would appreciate you sending the numbers . They should be written on the covers.

Edited January 22, 2016 by stakeside (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I do not have start numbers for models: BE, ME, IE, DA-130 and DA-140. If someone has these parts manuals I would appreciate you sending the numbers . They should be written on the covers.

 

 

DA140 is as follows :

 

D206480

E142623

S112856

 

Haven't scanned it in yet so let me know if you'd prefer a scan for your records.

I don't have any of the other ones you need.

 

I'm looking for BE, GE, HE, IE, LE, ME, OE, RE, SE, TE, JE, YE & DA130 if anyone is willing to share...

Edited January 22, 2016 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Thanks. I do not need scans. Numbers will do.

[stakeside]

Found this older post. Very interesting discussion. http://forums.aaca.org/topic/195410-34-ton-db-parts-list-book/page-1

Check out this srvice bulletin D-48. It speaks of frame numbers. Does any body have a copy of the full bulletin? Would like to read the rest of it.

[Guest curea]

The following vin plates are reproductions of my two trucks. The DE and the DA-120

DEtp.jpgDAtp.jpg

 

Stakeside, do you know where I can get a data plate like these? Apparently when mine was originally restored the dataplate was removed entirely...

 

...Aaron

[Guest curea]

Get this referrence from the DB Club on these trucks. I forget the title got thru there lit sales. A get $10 investment with great history.

Sent you a private message.

 

I can't find this book over there either. Is it this one? https://squareup.com/market/dodge-brothers-store/dodge-brothers-graham-brothers-trucks ?

[ArticiferTom]

That's  the book . It is on the site near end ,marked reprinted articles  $9.00 .

Edited February 5, 2016 by ArticiferTom (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Aaron:

It would be a rare find to find an original vin plate. These plates rust out on these old trucks. Mine was barely legeable and half rusted. I found a NOS non-stamped plate on e-bay and was able to make a reproduction of mine by using a software called Photoshop. It was a long process.

I do not have any plans to produce and sell these plates. There may be legal issues.

This the correct location.

That reference book should be the correct one.

How is the wood in the cab of your truck? Could you post some pictures?

Be sure and take plenty of pictures and take measurements.

[Chrycoman]

In regards to the serial numbers of Dodge Trucks from 1929 (no Graham Brothers trucks after December 31, 1928) I have the Red Book (various editions covering 1929 to 1956), NADA (editions covering 1929 to 1978) and Branhams (covering 1929-1978).  They also have the Chrysler-engineered Fargo trucks - FEDCO serial numbers through 1931 and then buses in 1932 and 1933.  Strangely, the Model Chart and Serial Number Guide does not list the 1929-1931 Fargo trucks and the Fargo buses are listed under Dodge Truck.

The second letter of the Graham Brothers model code was for the model year : A - 1924, B - 1925 and 1926 (1926 also first year for serial numbers with a letter for assembly plant),  C - 1927, D - 1928, E - 1929.  The Dodge Truck continued the E for the rest of the 1929 model year.

My 1924 edition of Branhams covers 1914 to 1924, although it does not have Graham Brothers trucks, although it does have 1917-1924 Dodge Brothers commercial vehicles.  The 1927 edition has 1920-1927 Graham Brothers trucks, although listed with the Dodge Brothers serial numbers.   The 1934 edition has 1929-1933 Fargo trucks, 1929 to 1933 Dodge trucks, but nothing on Graham Brothers.  Presently I am searching for an edition around 1930 to overlap the end of the 1927 edition and the beginning of the 1934 edition.  It should have Graham Brothers information.

The 1934 Branhams lists the 1929 E series by model with engine, load capacity, shipping weight and price, but all sharing the same serial number spans -.

P-1001 to P-3487, D-182639 to D-218622, E-134710 to E-146441 and S-110035 to S-114219.

The 1930 models are listed by wheelbase, engine, load capacity, shipping weight and price, with no mention of model number.  And going by the wheelbases and engines, the models are not the E series but the DA, U, etc. models listed after the E series in the Model Chart and Serial Number Guide.

For these models, the serial numbers are :

1930 - P-3488 to P-7791, D-218623 to D-235757, E-146442 to E-151049 and S-114220 to S-116044.

1931 - P-7792 to P-8183, D-235758 to D-237361, E-151050 to E-151191 and S-116045 to S-116399. 

Branhams does not list the ending serial numbers for 1931, but just has `and up`.  Since these models are not mentioned after 1931, the ending serial numbers for 1931 should be the final numbers listed in the Guide. 

From that point, all the F series truck models are listed (UF10A, UF10B, F10A, etc.) along with the related serial numbers.  F series were built for 1931, 1932 and a few models for 1933.  The F series was the first with Chrysler Corp`s seven digit serial number - 8,000,001 to 8,900,000 for Detroit, 8,9XX,XXX for Windsor, 9,000,001 to 9,200,000 for Evansville, and 9,200,001 to 9,300,000 for California.  Naturally, there were some exceptions to the rules. 

Chrysler of Canada in its official history lists 1931 as the first Dodge Truck built in Canada.  But Dodge Trucks and Graham Brothers Trucks were built in Canada but they appear to have used Detroit serial number sequences . Anyone have a Canadian-built Graham Brothers Truck.  

The first Canadian serial number for a Dodge Brothers car was the 1929 DA, starting serial number CDA-3261.  I suspect that this was the first Dodge Brothers car built at the new plant on what is now Chrysler Centre.   The last DA built in Toronto would have beeen CDA-3260, although they may not have actually used that number, instead using a Detroit serial number with the car being the 3,260th DA built at Toronto.  Need to find someone with a Dodge Brothers car built in Toronto. 

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Chrycoman (see edit history)

[ericbt]

I've been doing some more thinking and looking at the tags from these trucks. If you read the text in the middle of the tags it says "Frame and Car Number model and wheel base must be mentioned in all correspondence and parts orders" on the Dodge Brothers tags and "Frame number, car number, capacity, and wheel base must be mentioned in all correspondence and parts orders" on the Graham Brothers tags. Since they need the frame and car number as well as the model and the wheel base one can assume that they can't look up the frame or car number to determine the model.

 

Eric

[30DodgePanel]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 3:39 PM, ericbt said:

hwellens on the general forum was nice enough to share the information from a 1934 NADA guide.

 

It shows:

 

1928:

 

D-175590

E-133097

S109835 (Not listed, but from the serial guide)

 

1929:

 

P1000 to P3487

D182639

E134710

S110035

 

1930:                        These are the beginning numbers according to parts list book covers for DA-133, U-133,     DA124  and  U-124                                           Note these engine codes.              

              

P3488 to P7792

D218623                                    D218,272 = U-133        ALSO NOTE Engine code U-1-C-133 The C indicates 1 ton trucks

                                 D220,380 = DA-133                                                  DA-1-C-133

                                 D221,339 = DA-124                                                  DA-1-B-124 The B indicates 3/4 ton trucks

                                 D221,442 = U-124                                                     U-1-B-124

                                                                                                                      Other examples :

                                                                                                   DA-165 = DA-1-E-165 The E indicates 1 1/2 ton trucks

                                                                                                   DA-150= DA-1-G-150 The G indicates 2 ton trucks

                                                        

E146442

S114220

 

1931:

 

D235758

E151050

S116045

 

1932:

 

D236959

E151192

S116098

 

 

 

 

BUMP

More info on the 1930's that should help clarify a few things in regards to frame numbers and engine codes, see highlighted blue notes above. .

 

 

 

Chart below is only for reference in regards to engine code letters that we've all been wondering about for years. Chart above is an example that started with frame # that Eric provided as reference for 1930 models.

 

Engine Code mystery solved:

L is for 3 tons

T is for Street Car Bus

U is for Parlor Car Bus

S is for School Buses

and
A is for 1/2 tons and

B is for 3/4 tons

mystery solved ? I do believe so ! Let me know your thoughts gents.

 

BE to YE model engine code still a mystery as well as earlier D & C series trucks. Still compiling info..

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

 

According to previous numbers and spacing for production in this chart from original Dodge truck literature, here is my theory of what the missing numbers sequence could very possibly look like for Detroit built trucks.

 

Picking up with D215,000 from this attached page above dated "11-1-30"

NOTE Some of these are only my estimates and have not been proven by ANY original DB literature, just my theory based on historic tracking numbers and my frame number for my 1930 DA-124 3/4 ton for a point of reference and where the first Detroit frame number starts for 1931 truck models. Also note that where you see an asterisk * these are proven original DB documents taken from the covers of the parts list books specific per models and/or NADA or Redbook input.

 

Picking up with :

*D215,000 would fall close to late June 1929  and this would be the ending of 1929 models.

 

Models for 1929 were as follows:

*DA-120 beginning #'s D204,872 (remember, beginning #'s means these are the proven numbers on the cover of parts list books)

*DA-150 DA-1-E-150 D206,263 - 1 1/2 ton (not to be confused with the DA-1-G-150 1928 2 ton model )

*DA-140 beginning #'s D206,480

*DA-165 DA-1-E-165 D206,588 Feb 1929 - 1 1/2 ton (not to be confused with the DA-1-G-165 1928 2 ton model)

 

 

----------------------------------

Beginning of 1930 models:

D217,500 estimate July 1929

*U-133 Beginning #'s D218,272

D220,000 sometime in Sept

*DA-133  beginning #'s D220,380

*DA-124  beginning #'s D221,339

*U-124    beginning #'s D221,442

D225,000 sometime in Dec 1929

D230,000 sometime late Feb or early March 1930

*D231751 (my DA-124 3/4 ton frame number- Build Card shows March 11th 1930)*

*D235,757 approximate frame # of last Detroit produced truck during 1930 model year run.

My theory:

Approximately 18,257 Detroit trucks built for the model year 1930

based on:

D217,500 beginning #'s run

*D235,757 ending #'s run

= Estimated 18,257 total Detroit frames produced for 1930.

 

Work on earlier C, D and E series trucks along with all the Evansville and Stockton built trucks still being compiled and organized. Will give an update to those numbers in the near future.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beginning of 1931 models :

*D235,758 according to Redbook - sometime in July 1930 ? making this the beginning of the 1931 model year run trucks

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ending number :

*D237,361 Jan 1932

Edited August 31, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[flyingrally]

Hi everyone, picked up my 26? Graham Brothers truck on the weekend at a farm auction and I am now going through process for first start and drives. It's had a standoff resto done at some stage so I am hoping to just drive her for a few months before a complete restoration. I am really struggling to find the chassis number. I've checked around the shackles on both river and passenger sides. A photo of where to find it would be awesome or any other pointers for first starts.

[nearchoclatetown]

If that is the original engine the truck is a '27. That is a fast four, only made in '27 and short period in '28.

[flyingrally]

13 minutes ago, nearchoclatetown said:

If that is the original engine the truck is a '27. That is a fast four, only made in '27 and short period in '28.

Tracking the providence has not been easy, I am still trying to find who did the last restoration. So am I right in looking for the serial number at the front leaf shackle because im really struggling to see any marks on either side. 

 

[30DodgePanel]

1 hour ago, flyingrally said:

Tracking the providence has not been easy, I am still trying to find who did the last restoration. So am I right in looking for the serial number at the front leaf shackle because im really struggling to see any marks on either side. 

 

 

Hello and welcome (nice truck btw). You're looking in the right area...

 

Your truck looks like it might be pre Jan 1928 BD or earlier BC (126"wb) from here but more info is needed to verify. Is there a metal tag or toe board marker on the floorboard or is it gone?

 

If you can provide the frame number, wheelbase, and engine # we can help tremendously. I'm providing pics to show where to find the frame number and how faint the letter and numbers may appear. Should be one letter and six numbers total... Sometimes the number was painted over and may be hidden behind grease, grime or rust. Check that whole side towards the front, it's there somewhere... usually at the lower section of most frame rails.

Edited May 10, 2019 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[flyingrally]

10 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

Hello and welcome (nice truck btw). You're looking in the right area...

 

Your truck looks like it might be pre Jan 1928 BD or earlier BC (126"wb) from here but more info is needed to verify. Is there a metal tag or toe board marker on the floorboard or is it gone?

 

If you can provide the frame number, wheelbase, and engine # we can help tremendously. I'm providing pics to show where to find the frame number and how faint the letter and numbers may appear. Should be one letter and six numbers total... Sometimes the number was painted over and may be hidden behind grease, grime or rust. Check that whole side towards the front, it's there somewhere... usually at the lower section of most frame rails.

 

 

Thanks heaps, I will check it out in the morning and get back to you. Good news installed battery and managed to start and run briefly.

[flyingrally]

On 5/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

 

Hello and welcome (nice truck btw). You're looking in the right area...

 

Your truck looks like it might be pre Jan 1928 BD or earlier BC (126"wb) from here but more info is needed to verify. Is there a metal tag or toe board marker on the floorboard or is it gone?

 

If you can provide the frame number, wheelbase, and engine # we can help tremendously. I'm providing pics to show where to find the frame number and how faint the letter and numbers may appear. Should be one letter and six numbers total... Sometimes the number was painted over and may be hidden behind grease, grime or rust. Check that whole side towards the front, it's there somewhere... usually at the lower section of most frame rails.

 

 

 

Howdy, well ive had no luck with the number  I suspect i might have to remove the paint as it's a pretty heavy coat. The wheelbase is 3650mm or 143.7 inches.

[30DodgePanel]

7 hours ago, flyingrally said:

 

Howdy, well ive had no luck with the number  I suspect i might have to remove the paint as it's a pretty heavy coat. The wheelbase is 3650mm or 143.7 inches.

 

Thanks for the wheelbase. I suspect it is a 140"wb as there are no 143"wb listings.... but again, the frame # will give up that answer.

 

Don't give up on the serial/frame number just yet, as you pointed out you may have to remove the paint to expose the numbers so you do have a few options...

 

 

1.)  do you have a metal tag on the floorboard anywhere ?

2.) since you're  doing a resto, why not use paint stripper and/or lacquer thinner to wipe away the paint until the numbers are exposed? Make sure you use a non abrasive cloth.

3.) try checking these areas highlighted in these photos

4.) also, the engine # may help

 

I recently helped a fire station in Canada find the # on a their painted frame and they simply repainted once they found it. Below are the areas I suggested to them and they eventually found it at the rear behind the last running board bracket. These four highlighted areas are sure to expose the number. The two photos are of the same frame.

 

BTW, you may want to start a brand new thread so we can discuss your truck more specifically. This is a very long and old thread that dealt with the chronology of frame numbers and may confuse some readers. Just a kind suggestion...

 

Regards,
Dave

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)