Disc brake conversion and switching to the 17.5" wheels and tires from 16"

[countrytravler]

Has anybody done this?? Looking to make this conversion to my 2 car and one car enclosed trailers.

Edited December 19, 2015 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I have done extensive research on the 17.5 wheels. They are the way to go if you run fast, heavy, or through the desert. I like the disk brake set up, no doubt it is the way to go. I sort of turned this whole idea on its head, and bought a triple axle 21,000 gvw trailer with torflex axles. My cars are HEAVY, pulling either V12 Pierce, Packard, or other very heavy CCCA iron. The triple axle solved all my issues of loading and stopping. The extra axle almost improves the brakes by 100 percent. Doing the math, building the trailer I needed cost 26,000 bucks. I didn't want to throw down that much, and started looking at decent new or used mid grade trailers to upgrade. I got lucky and purchased a 4 month old trailer that was bank owned, and got it for 40 cents on the dollar. I will never go back to two axles again. The tripp is much more stable and handles the heavy stuff much better. it is MUCH harder to deal with a triple axle trailer on the side roads and parking lots suck...... real bad. But when one thinks of the safety and other benefits, it is worth it. Last few years running FAST and heavy we would lose one tire every 1500 miles.....we were carrying 6 spares and using them all on long trips. We would run 80 mph in the desert at overload, thus we were having huge tire issues. Next up for me is to go from a F350 to a 450 or 550. Got to have the heavier truck today as the one tons just don't have the steel in them. Frames flex and brakes fade under heavy load. Remember if you go 17.5 to carry three spares, though I doubt you would ever need one........the 17.5 is a special order tire in most out of the way places.......but at 110 psi and 7000 load, they almost never fail and wear like iron. Most guys I speak to say they go 100,000 miles on a set. What are you running for a trailer, and what are you hauling? Ed

[real61ss]

I can relate to what you sayin but I have a couple of questions, are you saying that you installed the disk brake and 17.5 wheels on your existing trailer? Most of the triple axel trailers that I have seen had 15" wheels. I don't know the diameter of the 17.5 tires but I'm supprised they will clear the wheel boxes on a trailer that was built for 15" wheels.

I have a 36' gooseneck and a 28' tag that I pull behind a F 450 truck. I learned a lesson when I ordered the gooseneck, I ordered it with 16" wheels and the wheel boxes are so large that you have to have 6" tall ramps in the trailer to open the car door. When I ordered the 28' tag trailer I let them build it with 15" wheels then I switched to 16" as so as I took delivery of the trailer.I use the Goodyear G614 tires, these are 16" and as you mentioned they run at 110 psi. All I had to do was go inside the wheel wells and clean this area up. They were some raw edges that would cut the tired but cut all these raw edges out and smoothed the area, haven't had any issues and have never seen any marks on the tires.

As for the truck, I started years ago with gas powered duallys then switched to diesels. I'm not one to read comsuner writeups or ask questions, if I see something I like and can afford I usually just buy it and decide later if I like it.

So, with that said, last year I saw a low mileage, 2008 F450 crew cab dually that was the color I like was in really great condition so I bought it, no questions asked.

The good....the truck tows either of my trailers effortlessly, brakes are outstanding, my wife can handle the driving as good as i, especially with the gooseneck trailer behind it. There is a huge difference between the 350 and the 450 Trucks and you really can feel it when towing. BTW, my loads usually run just a little over 4000 lbs.

The bad.....the insurance on the 450 is at least double that of a 350. My insurance company refused to insure the truck on my current policy, I had to get an commercial insurance policy for the truck, this cost double that of the 350 with less coverage. The tires cost about 400 bucks each verses 150 for the F350 tires. Fuel mileage is also a big eye opener, my F350 got about 11.5 to 12 mph pulling either of my trailers, the F450 gets 9.0 to 9.5. Of course this is due to the lower gear ratio of the 450.

Lookin back, I'm glad I bought the 450, it's a beast of a truck but I have mixed emotions about getting another. At this point, if I needed to buy another truck I would probably go back to a 350 but I will cross that bridge when the time comes because I really like my 450, Im just not crazy about the added cost.

[edinmass]

The 17.5 tires are the same size as the 235/85R16 tires. Just the rim size is different, and they are 12 ply, 110 psi load range G if memory serves me. The rim load is what maxes out the tire, not the tire itself. The conversion kit will only fit 7 & 8 K axles, not the lower rates ones with 15 inch wheels. Just the tire upgrade is a huge improvement. On my triple I still run 16 inch wheels, but will go to the Goodyear tires soon. They burn up fast from pushing in the turns and parking lot. Thanks for the insurance info on the 450 I was not aware of it. Ed.

[countrytravler]

Our equipment:

Open 40FT bumper pull

Open 26FT bumper pull

Closed 28FT bumper pull

 

We haul vehicles and parts on our trailers. We pull with our 94 Ram 2500 single wheel with the Cummins with 5 speed.

Other truck is a 2007 Ram 3500 dually Cummins with 6 speed.

Our 40FT is 24.000 GVWR. Have had 30.000 on it for a very short distance move. Half a mile. Pulled it with the 94 with no effort. That truck has been a workhorse. Bought all the equipment above new.

 

A little of my background.

Had a little car lot and restoe shop in Detriot starting in 74. I would drive my car or truck to the southern states on the weekends to buy a car or truck and haul it back to Detroit with my tow bar. This was from 74 to 76. Then I started flying down south with my tool box and tow bar. Rent a car on Friday night and drive around the back of car lots. I would pick out my 2 vehicles, make my deal with the dealer on Sat morning  and start to head back Sat night. 1977 bought my first one car trailer. Made a 3 day trip to Florida to pick up a Bricklin that hit a tree with a side hit. It paid me stupid money in my opinion of 1500.00. Lot of money in 77. I did this part time until 84. I worked for the city of Detroit till 78 then I worked for Ford Engineering from 78 till 84. Then in 84, I started buying gas stations and a tow truck service. Had car haulers from 2 to 7 car haulers doing the tri state area around Michigan and to CA on occasions. sold my companies in 94 and moved to Florida and bought a Car hauling company. I have hauled cars and such till 2011 when my business partner passed. So I have about 3 million plus miles under my belt.

 

On the subject of going 80 MPH with a small truck is real dangerous to yourself and the public.

If you ever blew a steer tire or something else, chance of rolling or worst, going across the median and hit someone head on. I have seen this many times in my travels. Also the expense of abusing and breaking equipment. I travel about 60 if conditions allow it. That will give you more time to prepare if something was to go wrong. I was traveling on 40 near Kingman AZ on route 40. This Suburban was pulling an Airstream went by me doing about 80. Got on the CB and said man! Why don't you slow down a little? He came back and said you drive your truck and I'll drive mine! 30 miles down the road,  he is in the median rolled over. I pulled over to talk to the authorities on how he was driving. Killed 2 of his kids. Just not worth it. Especially in the dessert. I just wait till night time to travel that route. Too hard on equipment and especially on tires.

 

Safe travels everyone.

Dave

Edited June 17, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

[countrytravler]

And this guy was going slow. Never know when the wind going to catch you off guard. Always listen to the weather report. Part of a pre trip.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

Not trying to scare people pulling trailers. I have seen stuff like this being on the road. When I was hauling cars with a car on my head rack, I would have 14 to 15 thousand on my steer axle. Not good if I had blown a steer tire at hi speed. I never blew a steer tire thank god. I did blow a set of dual tires on the rear of a loaded 2 car rollback. I took up 3 lanes going back and forth. Case of toilet paper in order!!

 

[edinmass]

Interesting posts, the wind has always been a problem. We have several rules, we never push in high winds or rain of any type. We drive off hours from most traffic and rush hours, we go around any city and avoid Rt 95 North of Richmond Va. The best answer is to drive smart. I have 5k on the road this month, I always try to make good time BUT we schedule in an extra 25 percent time each day so we can slow down and adjust when necessary. Had to take an extra day on the last trip to keep safe. We pulled off the road at 4 pm for a hotel and left at 2 the next morning, giving us mostly clear roads near population centers. Fortunately we can make our own hours and stops, with the extra time pad I have never had to take a chance due to weather or road conditions. Smart driving is the key, understanding local traffic helps, and driving more miles for better and less traveled roads are something we do all the time. Very good equipment is also a must. I never run my tires more than 60 percent, much less chance of a problem, and I sell them to the locals for their work trucks, so it helps off set the extra expense. We only run very fast at or near empty, and since we only do work for one customer empty haul backs are not an issue as far as money goes. I still think I will go to a 450 or 550 series truck next. Maybe a cdl is in my future. Most importantly is adjusting for traffic and the fools behind the wheel. We are also very careful of load balance in the trailer and truck. Unfortunately time will catch up with us all, and accidents will happen. Every stop we check out tires and equipment, and as we are getting older we now take a brake every 150 miles for as long as we need......five minutes or three hours. What ever works for us at the time. Lately we have been driving lots more off hours..........nine pm to seven am.......in most parts of the country it cuts out ninety percent of the traffic risk. Now.......let's not talk about deer or moose........ That is what keeps me up at night. Photo is from my back yard less than 100 feet behind my trailer this week at seven am.........in my own yard! Drive safe, if you do the conversion please post some photos and comments. Thanks, Ed.

[edinmass]

Sorry for the sideways Bulwinkle!

[countrytravler]

If you get a CDL, you have to have a medical card. DO NOT let them give you a sleep apnea test. Not mandatory as we talk. When we get a new truck, I would go with a Class 7, not much more than a 5500 and better on brakes and tires. Detroit with an Allision. Also electronic logs are going to be mandatory in 2.5 years. YA!!!!!

[edinmass]

Sleep apnea is gone, I lost over 100 pounds in the last two years. The new age of electronics is going to change everything on the road, cars and trucks. I may just stay with the 3500 series GMC to keep things simple, as I get older I am slowing down and taking more side trips while doing the long hauls. Mostly the big show circuit and the decent satellite meets and tours. Only cross country to Pebble is a drag.....all the others are from Chicago - Boston - Miami triangle, not too long and the drive is ok with proper timing. If I can avoid the cdl I will. My best, Ed.

Here is 5960 pounds of roadster. Add in the extra parts and garage junk, tools, luggage, and things get heavy fast.

[countrytravler]

I'm only 3 hours from Pebble. Be safe. The new E log rule will rid of wanna be car haulers that cut the crap out of the rates because they run under the radar. A lot of these guys run under U Ship Brokers. Will not rid on 100% but a lot. We run a tow service and I see a lot of impounds of the one and 2 ton trucks hauling freight under the radar. 12.000-pound fire truck just sold and delivered.

[Joe Block]

have you thought about putting one axle on air bags or a hydraulic left,  you raise one axle the rear one likely and improvement your parking lot handling.   all the heavy truck around run a third rear axle on air bag and lift setup, to haul 110K POUND IN WASHINGTON STATE. 

[countrytravler]

Called lift axle. Not worth the expense if it could be done. Axle is welded to the frame for the majority of the trailers manufactured. Less moving parts and gives all wheels independent suspension. I have included a video to better understand how a trailer suspension is built.My trailer is 40ft long and we don't have much problem getting around pulling with our Dodge dually. I guess that would reflect driving a 85ft loaded car hauler for millions of miles from door to door and most major cities.

 

Edited December 22, 2015 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

Here is another good advice!!!!   Get a DASH, rear and side CAM if you do a lot of driving and a dash cam if you drive very little. Could save you a bundle. Can't tell you how many times it has saved me in situations.

 

This video is 4 years old. Sure they are better today. 

 

Edited December 22, 2015 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

This is what I'm going to use when I build my next trailer. The 1st video.

This will lower your trailer to the ground. Better center of gravity and control. 

Stay away from the air ride lowering axle trailer. (2nd video) Too many bugs at this time. Would be fine for hobby use but not commercial use.

3 axles

17.5 Wheels

Disc brakes

Electric pressure sensors in all tires

Led lights with backup and side flood lights, I'm going to light this thing up like a Christmas tree!

Brake lights with strob

Fender lights

12.000lb winch with remote and charge with solar power. NOT RAMSY! Junk and pricey. Just my opinion with working with multiple winches.

Electric jack

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2015 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The air bag drop down trailers have been available here in the states for about 5 years. They are very nice, They don't handle very heavy cars, so they wont work for me. I just put a solar charger on my new trailer, and it charges my brake away battery as well as the battery for the winch and ball jack. One new item available is a tracking transmitter.  For about 20 a month you can have it set up to your phone and it will alert you if the trailer moves, or where  ever it is at any given time, even going down the road in real time. I have led check lights on the trailer that can be seen from the driver rear view mirror to show my stop, blinker, and running lights are on. You may find the drum electric brakes are ok when you have the triple axle set up. I hauled 2 Pierce Arrows and a bunch of parts in our 53 foot 5th wheel this summer and it was fine. Disk would be better, but its a huge up charge. The tor-flex axles are the only way to go, they are on all my trailers. The fire truck sure looked very heavy on that small trailer! I wouldn't have been comfortable on a highway with that set up. I never tow anything without the dually. Ed.

[Robert Street]

Question for both of you. What brand tire transmitter TPMS are you using. Also which manufacturer of tracking transmitter are you happy with?

Robert

[countrytravler]

Question for both of you. What brand tire transmitter TPMS are you using. Also which manufacturer of tracking transmitter are you happy with?

Robert

I have used them on my Semi truck car haulers. That was 5 years ago when I retired. Do not remember the brand. I know I had to use 2 transmitters because of length and foul weather conditions since I ran all 48 states.

What I talked about in the previous post is for a future build. Google it or go to YouTube for info.

[countrytravler]

The air bag drop down trailers have been available here in the states for about 5 years. They are very nice, They don't handle very heavy cars, so they wont work for me. I just put a solar charger on my new trailer, and it charges my brake away battery as well as the battery for the winch and ball jack. One new item available is a tracking transmitter.  For about 20 a month you can have it set up to your phone and it will alert you if the trailer moves, or where  ever it is at any given time, even going down the road in real time. I have led check lights on the trailer that can be seen from the driver rear view mirror to show my stop, blinker, and running lights are on. You may find the drum electric brakes are ok when you have the triple axle set up. I hauled 2 Pierce Arrows and a bunch of parts in our 53 foot 5th wheel this summer and it was fine. Disk would be better, but its a huge up charge. The tor-flex axles are the only way to go, they are on all my trailers. The fire truck sure looked very heavy on that small trailer! I wouldn't have been comfortable on a highway with that set up. I never tow anything without the dually. Ed.

The trailer that I hauled the fire truck is a 14.000 GVWR trailer. 2-7000 lb axles. Also has the 12 ply ST tires. The disk brake would be about 1500.00 added cost to the trailer. The LED stop lights I use has a bright strobe the flashes when the brakes are applied. 5 time the distance that people can see you. Very effective. Used them on my Semi truck car haulers. They are available at trucks stops that has a big parts department like the Iowa truck stop on rt. 80.

[edinmass]

Are the brake light strobes ok with the DOT? I see a controller for only 10 bucks.....I like the idea.

[countrytravler]

Are the brake light strobes ok with the DOT? I see a controller for only 10 bucks.....I like the idea.

The ones I used were built into the lamps. Separate thin clear bulb the would run across the entire light at the 9:00 to the 3:00 position. As the red light would come on, the clear thin bulb would start strobing. It was all built in. The red light would stay aluminate and not strobing. Ran them on all my trucks and only had a few DOT guys question it. They liked it but the back hills guys had to call the bosses to ask about. Never got a ticket or had to remove them. I'll try to find it on the internet but so far I haven't found it.

[edinmass]

Interesting tire I just installed on my new trailer. Load range G all steel trailer tire in 16 inch. Speed rated, the tire weighs 62 pounds, the standard trailer tire is 30 pounds. Increadable tire for the price, I would usually never buy a Chineese tire, but this is a ISO 9000 company and hundreds of reviews are available on line, all positive. Enclosed is a screen shot of the tire, look it up on google. I just put six on my trailer yesterday. Cost was just under 125 per tire, most report 50,000 miles and still showing half tread. You will never need to carry more than one spare, available in 16 inch, two sizes, no need to change rims. I am running them at 100 psi, Max inflation is 110 psi.  Ed.

[edinmass]

Notice the 4100 pound per tire weight rating, more than 1000 pounds more than any other tire available, the Goodyear is currently selling for 350 per tire on a E rating, this is a G rated all steel casement and sidewall. When the guys at the shop saw the tires, all were impressed, and several put orders in right away. Contact me directly for info on best price, I have nothing to do with the company or distributor, just a happy customer. Ed