1930 Buick Model 30-61 Never-ending Restoration

[Erndog]

When I was growing up we had an old buckrake on the ranch that had been fashioned out of a 1929 Buick. This was a fairly common practice in the old days because they were such a hardy vehicle. I fell in love with the honeycomb radiator and the unusual rear suspension, and ended up buying a basket case 29-46S. I soon was overwhelmed with the task, considering I had hung the body from some rafters (I was young and dumb) to facilitate removal from the chassis. It almost immediately fell to pieces. That was the end of that project.

Fast forward 30 years.

On July 9, 2003, I purchased a 1930 Model 30-61 four door sedan with dual sidemounts through eBay.  It was in running condition, so all the better, though mechanical restoration is what I prefer. I drove from Virginia to Indiana and picked it up.  I was told the wood was fairly sound, but could not readily verify that. When I got it home the ride verified quite the opposite for me.  Thus began what so far is a 12 year re-wooding project. Bear in mind that that includes long periods of restoration depression, reworking, problem solving, and other things in my life.

This thread is to chronicle my woes and solicit input/advice/help, etc. and show what progress, if any, I make.  I should have started it years ago, but better late than never. 

I probably have many hundreds of photos, so if anyone needs some info, let me know.

[keiser31]

Cool car!

[Erndog]

Thanks! 

One of the first things I noticed when I started messing with the wood, other than a lot of dry-rot, was a bug infestation. See photos. Essentially, the only wood that wasn't affected was a few plywood pieces that a previous owner had scabbed in. Therefore, it was decided for me, then and there, that I was going to have to replace virtually every piece of wood in the car.  And that's a lot.  That was not good, as I had NO woodworking experience.  However, it was good, in that I had an excuse to acquire a lot of new toys (tools). I have been looking at this as a big do it yourself jigsaw puzzle.  One thing I learned is that this is not your cookie-cutter Ford.  Fisher bodies are pretty much one of a kinds. Though they had templates and jigs, there were a lot of individualisms in construction. For example, I have found that right and left like parts are rarely identical. Usually minor differences, but sometimes glaring and made up for elsewhere.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Erndog (see edit history)

[GARY F]

keep up the good work and keep the pictures comming

[keiser31]

You may want to acquire this book....lots and lots of drawings and photos of the inner body parts/wood.

[Erndog]

The first thing I did was try to document the existing condition of the car as best I could.  I will be sharing a lot of that here for any of you sadists out there. You may think I should have seen what I was getting into before I bought it, but I had buyer's fog and no experience in how bad bad can be.  I also spent several days getting there, due to blowing an oil pump en-route and didn't want the trip to be for naught. By the way, the pictures didn't show it, but the trunk came with it.

Here are some of the wood condition photos. They were also to document original wiring layouts, etc. 

[Erndog]

That book was one of the first things I obtained. It has been very helpful, yet frustrating in how dark some of the crucial photographs are. 

I also have the

1930 Sales Brochure

1930 Specifications and Adjustments manual

1929 Buick Reference Book

1929 Buick Shop Manual

1918-1932 Buick Parts Book

16th Edition of the Hollander interchange book

16th Edition of Dykes Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia

1938 Edition of Chilton Flat Rate and Tune Up Manual

and various other jobber publications.

However, the wood stuff is very elusive and measurements are non-existent. 

 

If ANYONE out there has ANY body measurement, i.e. widths, door pillar to pillar, actual wood parts measurements, etc., I would be eternally grateful!!

Though I thought I was saving as much data as humanly possible while dissecting, you never realize what you miss until it is too late.

[Erndog]

Oh, and I also have the 1931 Buick Fisher Body Manual.

[GARY F]

where and when are you going to start. it will look great when done

[Erndog]

I started 12 years ago right after I got it home. I started by very carefully dissecting the body down to a bare chassis.  That took quite a while, since I had no previous experience.  I have yet to do anything mechanical, other than obtaining another exhaust manifold to replace the broken one it came with and getting a replacement head from a different engine I have.  The original head had several disturbing cracks around the valve springs.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Erndog (see edit history)

[Guest Roj]

I have a 30 Buick 64C and a 1931 55 Buick. If you need help or need a few parts, let me know.

[Erndog]

Thanks! I will keep you in mind.

[Spinneyhill]

One very rare item you seem to have is the furry "knobs" on the blind pulls. Xclnt.

[Taylormade]

Wow, just a great looking car.  I have a real affinity for early thirties sedans as evidenced by my restoration project - a 1932 Dodge Brothers.  Here she is the day I picked her up.

 

I am lucky as Dodge used all steel bodies from the beginning, so my only wood problems come in the wood floorboards and some small, non structural wood pieces that are used to tack in the upholstery.  I do feel your pain, however, as i restored a 1929 Plymouth model U which had a wood framework body like yours.  All I can suggest, although after 12 years I'm sure you have figured most of it out, is to work bottom to top and keep fitting and refitting along the way.  If you get one part off, the tiny inaccuracies will multiply as you continue - been there, done that!  That will be a beautiful car when you're done.

 

 

 

[Erndog]

This is the condition of the seats when I got her. If I ever get the other big stuff done I will worry about this.

 

[Taylormade]

Wow, the critters had a field day in that upholstery!  The wood in the seat frame doesn't look too bad, unless the aforementioned bugs got into that, too.

[Ron Lawson]

Hello Erndog  I feel for you mate I am restoring a 1928 Dodge Brothers Senior 6 Tourer  It has an Australian Holden body (the tourer was not part of the DB line up for the Senior in the US) The main body timber at the frame was mostly rotted away as well as the car being altered mechanically  I was lucky that my pa-in -law had a band saw that I was able to loan but many hours were spent on trial and error in remaking those 2 bottom rails for the body Dont fret I have owned my DB since 1976 however my self employment as a long distance Owner Driver kept me away from home a lot of the time . Dont get me wrong I am not complaining ,if it wasn't for doing that work I would not be in the same position that I am now 

I sold up and semi retired 3 years ago and in that time I have built 65 by 55 foot work shop and storage for the cars (we have 3 others besides the DB) and I sure have made lots of progress on my DB 

I am sure that you will find many helpful people here as I have. Many thanks go to Gundog, Trini and Dick Perry for taking the time to send email pictures to me 

Unfortunatly my restoration efforts have been put on hold again as I am off to hospital today for a shoulder reconstruction I fell off a ladder 5 weeks ago and haven't been able to use the left arm. Been told I will be out of action for around 12 weeks  Not to worry I am still breathing and the old DB will still be waiting 

Keep plodding along I know at times you seem to be getting nowhere and then suddenly all of your efforts come together and you think wow and then move on to another piece Take care and good luck with your restoration 

[Erndog]

Thanks. It is encouragement like yours that may keep me going. I, too, spent an enormous amount of time on the main body sills and am still not really done with them. The sills on mine both had pine and plywood sections scabbed onto the front ends under the cowl section. That greatly added to the mystery of the original dimensions. For right now, while I plod through the other parts of the wood, I am leaving them a little extra long in front. I am afraid to cut them wrong and screw everything up. When I feel the time is right I will probably put the radiator back on, the A frame (rods) over the engine, and connect them to the firewall and cowl. I think that should show me pretty close where the cowl should be sitting and thus the length and shape of the sills.

Attached are photos of what I had to work with.

[Landman]

You have the right approach. One piece at a time. Make each piece a project and finish it before you start the new one. When the time comes for reassembly, you may want to check Auto Hardware Specialties in Sheldon Iowa. They have just about every bit you might need.As far as sequencing, I have some pretty comprehensive instructions for reassembly. If you want them, I can email them to you. Here's a photo of my woodpile at varnishing time.

 

 

 

 

[Erndog]

That is a great collection of pieces you have there and I feel the pain of every one of them! I have made them all, I think. My collection is mostly assembled right now, though it will be coming all apart again for about the fifth time for further fit-ups and eventually final modifications. Hopefully, I won't have to completely remake any pieces.

 

Yes, I would greatly appreciate any instructions/advice/photos you may have. I will send you my email address in a PM.

 

As far as making new pieces goes, by far the most difficult pieces were the lower curved sections of the rear body hinge pillers. I think I finally got them fairly right, but it took me several years of trial and error and pondering. Another item of concern is the center body lock piller. How does one get the new wood back into the metal wrap?? Getting the old wood out of one of them was easy because the glue had disintegrated and the three pieces fell apart. But the other piller still has the wood in it and I haven't attempted removal yet.  As I am sure you know, there are some other very tricky situations I will probably be asking about.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Erndog (see edit history)

[Erndog]

So the beast began to shed its flesh, piece by difficult piece.  Here she is without her doors, rear fenders, and seats.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Erndog (see edit history)

[Erndog]

My first replicated piece.  Gotta start somewhere, and it might as well be a simple piece. Remember, this is my first real woodworking project, which I had no intention of ever getting into.

[Landman]

Nice job. You may want to join a woodworking forum. Make a thread in there. Explain your project and tell the boys you will be looking for pointers for certain cuts.I'm sure they'll be glad to help. This is the one I belong to:http://www.woodworkingchat.com/

 

If you live waaaay South, I might come to vavation there and help you.

[Erndog]

I would do that, but I have completed making just about everything except the roof slats.  The only real piece I have left to make is the front crosspiece above the windshield, which was missing on this car. So I really haven't a good idea what it should look like. The photo in the Fisher Body manual for this is woefully inadequate and dark.  Any advice on this piece is welcome, as is any advice on anything.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Erndog (see edit history)

[Tristan]

Looks like your doing a great job!!

Thanks for keeping us updated!

Good luck!!

Edited November 2, 2015 by Tristan (see edit history)

[Erndog]

This is the rear window/windshield frame. It was one of the first sections I tackled because it looked fairly easy to achieve. Included are photos of the frame in situ.  Hopefully, the dimensions are symmetrical, as I found what I believed to be the center of the bottom piece and mirrored it.  I later determined that the routing on some pieces is not completely necessary, but I tried to stay as true to original as possible, since I had no idea what I was doing. As you will see in later posts, some of my routing leaves a hell of a lot to be desired, and I may even go back and remake some pieces someday... or leave that to my GGGrandchildren when they finish this thing. Anyway, here it is.

 

[Landman]

Nothing wrong with that frame. If it fits where it is supposed to go and if the glass & molding fit the hole that's all you need. It will be covered up anyway.

[Erndog]

Right. Thanks. I am beginning to get that opinion about a lot of it. Some of the original factory installed pieces don't even show up in the manuals or sales brochure pictures.

[Taylormade]

Since you seem to have already made most of your wood parts, this information is probably old news, but I found that using a pattern cutting router bit (one with a bearing on the shaft) made life a lot simpler when it came to duplicating wood parts for my Dodge.  This method presupposes the old wood piece is still somewhat intact so it can be "traced" by the router.  I often had to glue up broken pieces and even used filler in some occasions to get the old part back into shape.  This turned out to be a lot easier than trying to cut complex shapes with a bandsaw.  This method creates an exact duplicate of the original part.  I used it to remake the bottom front seat frame on my car.

 

Before and after pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was my first attempt at this kind of woodworking.  I had to buy a router and a router table and learn to use them before I got started.  To put it bluntly, if a klutz like me can do it, almost anyone can.

[Erndog]

Thanks for that post, Taylormade. That is very impressive woodwork! I use router bits with bearings when possible, but I think you are referring to a different type.  I will have to look that up.  I haven't renovated any old pieces, other than gluing pieces back together in order to see what I need to make.  Some of my pieces literally crumbled to dust when I removed them.  It can be very frustrating and confusing sometimes.

[Erndog]

Well, I just looked up pattern cutting router bits.  Damn, Taylormade, where were you ten years ago??!  I think that would have made a lot of things a lot easier.  Unfortunately, almost everything I have done has been with a bandsaw.  Some was with a table saw, and sadly, some with a jigsaw when absolutely necessary. I hate jigsaws. The blade always seems to have a mind of its own.

[Erndog]

Next, I tackled some easy pieces; main sill cross-members.

[keiser31]

Are you by chance documenting your work with dimensions so that future restorers can benefit from your awesome work? Maybe you should make two of each piece and sell the set to recoup some of your money on the project.

[Erndog]

I am trying to, and/or making paper patterns. My son had me making 3D cad drawings of them, but it got pretty difficult.  That is a project for a future time. I just wish I had taken side to side measurements of the body, sill dimensions vs frame, overall heights, etc. before I dissected it. I think it will be ok because I am duplicating most of the pieces and can still see where they joined, etc., but I won't know for sure until I am done.

As far as making two of each piece, I think I have already done that and more, due to mistakes. I am not sure I will have the energy or drive to make them again.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Erndog (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Those pieces look really nice.  There is a certain satisfaction in seeing that nice fresh wood after dealing with the rotten, moldy originals.  One caveat on using the pattern cutting bits.  On thick hardwood, you need a quality router with plenty of power and good quality router bits.  The cheapos will not last long on a project like yours.  Also, if your floors or floor inserts are made out of plywood, be sure to use marine plywood as the glue is waterproof and you won't get any separation along the edges if moisture seeps in.

[Erndog]

Thanks. All good advice.

[Landman]

Looking good Ernie. Nice, crisp neat woodworking.

[Durant Mike]

Ernie;

  This is one of the most challenging abut also the most rewarding part of pre 1930's era cars. The wooden body frames with the metal nailed to it can be a challenge, but really shows the early transition between carriages and early auto manufacturing. I replaced some of the woodwork in my car, but left what wood was good and sound.  Still some more to do, but I enjoy woodworking also and have made some furniture and restored my share of antiques. Great to combine the two.

[r1lark]

Great work erndog! I can't imagine the logistics of taking what wood was left, figuring out what the missing pieces looked like, trying to determine measurements off old shrunken/rotted wood.......plus making sure that each new piece fits correctly into the previous pieces you have already made. Whew, makes my head hurt thinking about it!

[Erndog]

My head exploded a long time ago.