Rarity of a 1927 Pontiac Landau 4 door Sedan

[Guest vintagemc313]

I have a basket case 1927 Oakland/Pontiac four door Landau. I read from another persons ad (everything on the internet is true, lol) that there us only 10 known to exist. Sounds farfetched to me, but ????? Thanks in advance.

[CarlLaFong]

With certain cars, we know how many exist  or we have a very good idea. We know how many Bugatti Royales exist. We are about 99% sure on how many Duesenberg Js are left. Nobody can state, with certainty, how many 27 Pontiacs are left. The Pontiac Oakland Club may have 10 in their roster but that only accounts for members cars

[Guest vintagemc313]

That's more in line of my thinking. Thanks.

[Guest AlCapone]

With certain cars, we know how many exist  or we have a very good idea. We know how many Bugatti Royales exist. We are about 99% sure on how many Duesenberg Js are left. Nobody can state, with certainty, how many 27 Pontiacs are left. The Pontiac Oakland Club may have 10 in their roster but that only accounts for members cars

This logic makes good sense! Wayne

[wayne sheldon]

Many years ago, I met a fellow that swore absolutely that there were only seven Studebaker duplex phaetons left in the world. And he owned two of them. I saw his cars, one nice original, one rough but restorable. But seven in the world? I didn't believe him for a second. I knew of a couple others myself. Since then? I have seen several more. If he was right about how many there are left? I would have seen all of them by now.

Some people are funny about such ideas. The only ones that exist in the world are the handful that they have seen.

I find it interesting. I personally know five people that own a Locomobile Sportif (a sporty model Touring car). Some years back, three of the fellows I know plus two I did not know wound up on a tour together with their Sportifs. They tell me that there are seventeen Sportifs known in the world. On that one tour, were five of the known Sportifs. Interestingly enough, two other owners of Sportifs were also on that tour, but driving other cars. Seven of seventeen owners were on that one tour. Likely? No, but it happened.

 

Pontiac division founded in 1926 I think with 1927 being the first model Year? As a companion car to the well established Oakland, it did well, but should be a fairly rare car. Is yours a folding or fixed landau sedan? Folding landau sedans are quite rare in American makes of cars, with the exception of Chevrolet who built many of them from '28 to "30 for some reason. 1929s alone, I have personally seen at least four of them. On eBad I have seen at least four different ones, also '29s. I personally have looked closely at a 1928 four cylinder folding landau, and a 1930 Chevrolet folding landau, somewhat different than a '29. But other than Chevrolet, that body style seems fairly rare. There are a number of big classics in that style.

The fixed landau four-door sedan was a common body style for a lot of marques. I have seen a dozen such Buicks, several Chevrolets, Studebakers, REO, Stearns Knight (nice car!), Auburns, Locomobiles, and on and on. The style was common from about 1925 through 1931.

Many yeas ago, a good friend of mine even had a 1927 (I think?) Oakland landau sedan. It also was a nice riding car!

 

Generally speaking? There are more antique automobiles "out there" than we realize. Most cars we have? We would be surprised at how many very similar to it there are. The 1924 model T Ford coupe I have? I wonder how many hundreds of them there are? The 1927 Paige 6-45 four-door sedan I have? It is the most common Paige model and body style surviving. I have personally seen six of them in various stages of condition. There must be a couple dozen more "out there". That for a marque that is fairly rare itself.

 

vintagemc313, Any chance we can see pictures of your car? It may be a basket case, but we still like to see interesting cars. Regardless whether there are ten or a hundred of them like yours, a first year Pontiac is an interesting car.

[trimacar]

A number of years ago (15 to 20), I was working on my 1910 Buick Model 16, and numerous conversations were had where people were thinking that there were maybe 20 or so of the Models 16 and 17 (35/40 horse, 16 has a sportier body and 17 a regular touring body but share mostly same mechanics).

 

I started gathering owner's names and verifying cars.  Took about 6 months, and I found around 50 cars, about evenly split between each model.  I then mailed the list to every owner.

 

Since then, a few more have popped up.

 

As mentioned, unless it's a specific car or body that is well known, it's impossible to tell how many of most models still exist.  New "old" cars are being uncovered daily.

 

And, rarity doesn't mean high price in all cases, a common misconception.  It has to be both rare and desirable, and sometimes cars can be only one of those.  A Buick Marquette sedan may be rare, but not desirable.  A 1957 Chevrolet is desirable, but not rare.

[Guest Roj]

A number of years ago (15 to 20), I was working on my 1910 Buick Model 16, and numerous conversations were had where people were thinking that there were maybe 20 or so of the Models 16 and 17 (35/40 horse, 16 has a sportier body and 17 a regular touring body but share mostly same mechanics).

 

I started gathering owner's names and verifying cars.  Took about 6 months, and I found around 50 cars, about evenly split between each model.  I then mailed the list to every owner.

 

Since then, a few more have popped up.

 

As mentioned, unless it's a specific car or body that is well known, it's impossible to tell how many of most models still exist.  New "old" cars are being uncovered daily.

 

And, rarity doesn't mean high price in all cases, a common misconception.  It has to be both rare and desirable, and sometimes cars can be only one of those.  A Buick Marquette sedan may be rare, but not desirable.  A 1957 Chevrolet is desirable, but not rare.

ABSOLUTELY!!

 

I have a 1930 64C Coupe, when I bought it, I was told it was one of 10 or so, I know of at least 4 now, but I like the car

I have a 1931 55 Phaeton, 1of 8 or 9, guess what, it maybe rare, but I bought it because I thought it was neat and liked the owner. 

Cars are suppose to be fun, and less of how I'm going to make my millions, I have met a lot of great guys, some on this forum, so maybe I did make my millions and it is in the friends I have gained from this hobby.  It's not about the money it's about the cars and friends along the way.

[Matt Harwood]

A lot of people like to equate rare to valuable, but that's not always the case (in fact, it's rarely the case). There are plenty of cars that were rare when they were new simply because they were unpopular, and plenty that are rare today because nobody cared enough to preserve them. Rarity is but one qualification on the chart of values, and in the case of 99% of the cars out there, being one of only a handful left (whatever that may mean) has exactly zero effect on value. I would place a Pontiac as you describe in that category. Interesting footnote, non-factor in value.

[Rusty_OToole]

I know a guy who has a 1928. It has been sitting in his garage, in pieces, since he started restoring it in the sixties. He does not belong to any old car club and other than me and a few of his friends, no one knows about it or has seen it.

 

There are lots of cars like that around the country, making it next to impossible to say how many of any car may exist.

 

Having said that, your Oakland or Pontiac is certainly a rare car and would draw attention at any old car get together.

[avantey]

I like this conversation because it is almost always a 'feeler' towards saying a car is valuable due to its rarity and I agree with Matt on the relationship.  I have two cars that are rare as far as I know but I like them because I appreciate having something different (if not unique), I seem to gravitate to two seaters and I like orphan cars.

 

The previous owner of my 1913 Studebaker researched the car a lot.  He found about fifteen touring bodied SA-25's around the world but no other roadster bodied cars.  Along with this I have a mostly complete provenance on the car,  it has approximately 7000 original miles and has never been apart that I can tell.  Yet the best part is how fun it is to drive!  My late wife said it hated her and broke every time she got in it but I enjoy the car, especially driving it.

 

My other rare car is the 1916 Hupmobile model N roadster. It was owned for years by the model N tech rep in the Hupp club.  He gathered all kinds of info, history and contacts on this model and I have it all.  In there is info on about 6 roadsters from the '70's and '80's.  I have tried to reestablish these contacts with little luck but I do believe there are few of these cars around.  Hupp was not a huge seller in 1916, it is an open car and has never been highly sought after by collectors.

 

Both of these are prized parts of my collection but neither is highly valued that I know of.  People who see them love 'em and I enjoy them which is what matters most!

[PONTIAC1953]

Many years ago, I met a fellow that swore absolutely that there were only seven Studebaker duplex phaetons left in the world. And he owned two of them. I saw his cars, one nice original, one rough but restorable. But seven in the world? I didn't believe him for a second. I knew of a couple others myself. Since then? I have seen several more. If he was right about how many there are left? I would have seen all of them by now.

Some people are funny about such ideas. The only ones that exist in the world are the handful that they have seen.

I find it interesting. I personally know five people that own a Locomobile Sportif (a sporty model Touring car). Some years back, three of the fellows I know plus two I did not know wound up on a tour together with their Sportifs. They tell me that there are seventeen Sportifs known in the world. On that one tour, were five of the known Sportifs. Interestingly enough, two other owners of Sportifs were also on that tour, but driving other cars. Seven of seventeen owners were on that one tour. Likely? No, but it happened.

 

Pontiac division founded in 1926 I think with 1927 being the first model Year? As a companion car to the well established Oakland, it did well, but should be a fairly rare car. Is yours a folding or fixed landau sedan? Folding landau sedans are quite rare in American makes of cars, with the exception of Chevrolet who built many of them from '28 to "30 for some reason. 1929s alone, I have personally seen at least four of them. On eBad I have seen at least four different ones, also '29s. I personally have looked closely at a 1928 four cylinder folding landau, and a 1930 Chevrolet folding landau, somewhat different than a '29. But other than Chevrolet, that body style seems fairly rare. There are a number of big classics in that style.

The fixed landau four-door sedan was a common body style for a lot of marques. I have seen a dozen such Buicks, several Chevrolets, Studebakers, REO, Stearns Knight (nice car!), Auburns, Locomobiles, and on and on. The style was common from about 1925 through 1931.

Many yeas ago, a good friend of mine even had a 1927 (I think?) Oakland landau sedan. It also was a nice riding car!

 

Generally speaking? There are more antique automobiles "out there" than we realize. Most cars we have? We would be surprised at how many very similar to it there are. The 1924 model T Ford coupe I have? I wonder how many hundreds of them there are? The 1927 Paige 6-45 four-door sedan I have? It is the most common Paige model and body style surviving. I have personally seen six of them in various stages of condition. There must be a couple dozen more "out there". That for a marque that is fairly rare itself.

 

vintagemc313, Any chance we can see pictures of your car? It may be a basket case, but we still like to see interesting cars. Regardless whether there are ten or a hundred of them like yours, a first year Pontiac is an interesting car.

1926 was pontiac's first model year, not 1927.

[Guest vintagemc313]

I would like to clarify. I understand the relationship between rare and desirable, so I'm not concerned too much about value. I know that the vast majority of people here are purists, and I appreciate that. I'm a guy who loves the history and seeing beautiful examples,but......I also love hot rods. I once watched a tv show about a guy bragging that the car he was going to customize was a rare one of one Cadillac concept car. I still cringe. I dont want to be that a**hole, lol. I bought this car for a hot rod project, and even though all of the big components are there, there are tons of small components missing. My first thoughts were to part out unused parts. I was wanting to know if it was too rare to "destroy". I'm a purist at heart, but I appreciate customizing a car that is too far gone. This one has me torn.

Edited October 14, 2015 by vintagemc313 (see edit history)

[Guest]

Assuming your car is a Pontiac, it would be a Series 6-27. Originally this model sold for $895.00, today a complete

(restored or original)running car would be between 6 and 16,000 dollars depending on condition. The Landau Sedan was a

four door sedan with quarter windows and an ornamental landau bar behind the quarter window. The major change from

1926 was full crown fenders. The engine is 186.5 CID with a bore and stroke of 3.25 x 3.75, 4.8 to 1 compression giving 36 hp @2400 rpm.

Having owned a Pontiac from each year 26-32 I would not consider a 26-28 under any consideration. They were quite small inside, the drivers seat is not adjustable and the relatively short stroke engine is a little weak on torque. A great little car if you don't climb too many hills and are happy to cruise at 35 - 45 mph. Twenty nine and up are vastly

superior. My Series 6-30B has lots of power and will cruise on the interstate at 55mph all day. With five people in the car I can climb Donner Pass at the speed limit. (the 27 would likely be in second gear at 15mph) When I travel cross

country I usually drive 450 to 650 miles a day. Have been driving this car daily for 56 years putting on 401,000 miles after my Grandfather put 99,000 in it first 29 years.

Attached is a picture of a restored Series 6-27 Landau Sedan.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

I had a 29 Pontiac. A Canadian built car that was traded in at a Pontiac dealer in the 50's and put in a barn til I dragged it out in 2003 or so. I was very glad to get $1400 for it.