Where can I go with vendor problems?

[50Traveler]

A woodgrainer in Ohio has had the door frames for my 1947 DeSoto for a year and seven months.  Communication is almost nonexistent and has ground to a halt.  I have had many false promises and updates that were only to buy time until he could start ignoring me all over again.  I did contact the Ohio Attorney General and that didn't do much, if anything at all.

 

When I sent them out in early March of 2014 he asked if I wanted them for spring Carlise that was six weeks away.  Oh how I wish I had said yes.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thank you,

Justin Schiess

[John_S_in_Penna]

If he is an advertiser in Hemmings Motor News,

you can file a complaint through them, and I

believe they will even try to resolve the problem.

Unlike many publications, which take ads from

whoever sends them money, Hemmings vets its

advertisers, and I understand has banned many

individuals and companies from advertising.

If you aren't sure whether he has advertised

in Hemmings, you can call Hemmings and check.

If yes, request a complaint form from them.

Edited October 12, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

How did you find out about his services ? Wayne

[JACK M]

You must have a physical address where you sent them.

Pay him a random visit. Bring a cop.

[John348]

Was any part of the transaction done through the US Mail? I had a similar problem many years ago with the purchase of a part, I contacted the US Postal Police and the part arrived 2 weeks later. Technically it could be mail fraud, the USPP might show more interest then the local law enforcement, after all that is mostly what they handle.

[50Traveler]

I just filed the complaint with Hemmings.  You gotta love that they do this work in an effort to serve the hobby.  If that doesn't bring about any results I may have to visit and bring an officer with me.  I Fedex'd the frames to him and they were received on March 3rd 2014.  If Pleasant City, Ohio wasn't six hours away I would have been to see him sooner.  I never wanted to make the trip and then not find him or be able to collect anything.

 

Thank you all for your advice.  I'll let you know how I make out.

[John_S_in_Penna]

I just filed the complaint with Hemmings.

You gotta love that they do this work in an effort to serve the hobby....

That alone is reason to use and support Hemmings,

their magazines and their website!

Edited October 16, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Larry W]

Maybe the guy died! Check the obits.

[Curti]

When I sent them out in early March of 2014 he asked if I wanted them for spring Carlise 

 

Ya, but he didn't say what year.  I would send him a registered letter.  You may end up just biting the bullet and jet another set of window frames.  Are the they the same as Chrysler?

[50Traveler]

Just to keep you up to date, I did ask for help from Hemming's and they made contact within a few days.  Although he told them he would have pictures for me within a week, I never heard anything.  The vendor told Hemming's that he was having a hard time since there was no pattern for this model, but I don't accept that since a nice portion of the grain was pristine since it was covered with a trim piece since it was assembled in 1947.  The rest of it was a straight grain.  

 

Do you have any other suggestions?  He has my parts hostage so I have been afraid to antagonize him or even call him out by name.  I can't go on month after month with no idea what is going on.  Should I just drive the 6 hours to Ohio and hope to find him and my parts?  It has now been 20 months waiting for something that he offered to make available in 6 weeks and I am fed up.

 

Thanks again folks,

Justin

[Dwight Romberger]

If it has been over the week that he promised, recontact Hemmings and inform them he continues to lie to you.  If they are willing to address this, it might be the only leverage you have with him.  Ask Hemmings at what point they will ban his advertisment.

[Green37]

I would be so at his door.  Please tell us his name.

[Beltfed]

I'm in the same fix! I ordered and paid for a set of floor pans from a guy in Charlotte, NC in August of 2014. Haven't seen them yet. All calls go through an answering service run by a nice Southern lady. No call back. Emails are useless. Ask for my money back and no reply.

[JACK M]

No better way than to hold your attitude and knock on his door.

Make nice and tell him you were in the neighborhood and wanted to see the progress.

Now if he gets defensive its his bad.

[Guest AlCapone]

You have delayed the inevitable too long. Drive to his town, pickup a police officer and pay a visit! Did you contact the police yet! ? Wayne

[John_S_in_Penna]

If it has been over the week that he promised, recontact Hemmings and inform them he continues to lie to you.  If they are willing to address this, it might be the only leverage you have with him.  Ask Hemmings at what point they will ban his advertisement.

 

I agree:  Continue, at a minimum, to follow through

with Hemmings.  I believe they will work with you

until the problem is resolved in one way or another.

 

If a dependable vendor truly was having problems as he claimed,

he would have told you many months ago--and you or he could

do more research.  Tell Hemmings what you told us

about the pattern being visible, thereby showing why that

vendor's claim is just an excuse.

 

Unfulfilled promises do not an honest vendor make--and if his

delays are lies, they should reveal him to the rest of the

antique-car world by being banned through Hemmings.

There are plenty of honest wood-grainers out there.

Never simply leave excuses as the final say!

 

(And by the way, though I'm unfamiliar with them,

I like the idea of the Postal Police mentioned in Posting #5

as a next step, if one is needed.)

Edited November 9, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Absolutly contact the police in HIS town / county.  File a theft report / complaint.  Depending on the value of the parts it might be concidered a felony.  You may want to do this in person with a local police officer with you just to show him you are serious.  Also, be prepaired to actually file the theft report AND follow through.  If this happens send a copy of the case report to Hemmings also and they will stop his advertising until it is cleared.  You may help others avoid this crook.

 

R

 

PS: Yes, please name names...

Edited November 9, 2015 by 37_Roadmaster_C (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

My dad used to say, are you going to fish or cut bait? If the parts mean something to you, go and get them. Shooting rubber bullets accomplishes nothing. Right now the guy knows you don't mean business! Make plans to go get the parts this weekend. Wayne

Edited November 11, 2015 by AlCapone (see edit history)

[50Traveler]

A trip is in the making.  My driver is in the shop but once cured I will do my best to productively confront this person.  Thank you for the support;  I may be calling you up for bail if things get out of control.

J

[Guest AlCapone]

Surely a friend or a relative can help you with a pickup. If not rent one for the day. I can't believe you are letting the scoundrel get away with this! Wayne

[plymouthcranbrook]

Surely a friend or a relative can help you with a pickup. If not rent one for the day. I can't believe you are letting the scoundrel get away with this! Wayne

Take a BIG Friend. Don't let him have breakfast either that morning so he looks mad.

[countrytravler]

I use to haul cars for a living. I had a broker bounce a check on a load that I did. Bunch of promises. He was based in AZ. 1 year later, I booked a load of cars from the east coast to AZ. I called the broker and luckily he was still in business. I said I was coming there to collect. WELL, he said that he was a quadriplegic and I couldn't threaten him because of the disability act. I told that I am 6.2 at 220 with no fat and I will pull the wheelchair out from under him and beat the ---- out of him with his own chair. I get to his place and it was all a lie. He was a pencil little geek guy and he even gave me 100.00 dollars more. He apologized. End of story.

[Guest AlCapone]

I use to haul cars for a living. I had a broker bounce a check on a load that I did. Bunch of promises. He was based in AZ. 1 year later, I booked a load of cars from the east coast to AZ. I called the broker and luckily he was still in business. I said I was coming there to collect. WELL, he said that he was a quadriplegic and I couldn't threaten him because of the disability act. I told that I am 6.2 at 220 with no fat and I will pull the wheelchair out from under him and beat the ---- out of him with his own chair. I get to his place and it was all a lie. He was a pencil little geek guy and he even gave me 100.00 dollars more. He apologized. End of story.

Good for you, You are to be commended for not being afraid to do what is right! In this case the scoundrel is laughing his butt off at the complainant! Because he has literally done nothing in over a year ! Wayne

[John_S_in_Penna]

A trip is in the making....  I will do my best to productively confront this person.  

 

"Productively" is the key word, remembering the Golden Rule!

He may be a poor businessman, he may be making excuses, but he's not a criminal.

 

Wasn't Hemmings able to follow up any further, until resolution?

That would save you a trip, and would give you the weight of a 

major publication behind you.

[mercer09]

I would consider whether or not it is worth the trip. If you can buy another set of frames for less then the 2 day trip, I would let them go.

 

I would also post his name at every antique car forum, issuing a warning.

[50Traveler]

Just as an update, I am still without the window frames for my 1947 DeSoto.  I worked with Hemmings for a few months and though they made contact and received the empty promises I had, nothing ever came of it.  His right to advertise was suspended and still no response.  

 

To recap, I have been in touch with the Ohio Attorney General, the Better Business Bureau, and Hemmings.  They all did what they could but to no real solution.  The last letter, sent certified & return receipt requested, has been sitting at the post office and will be returned to me any day now.  The police know the man and have heard similar complaints from people all over the country in my situation.  Their advice was to hire an attorney for this civil matter.  They did tell me too that he doesn't live at this address, it is only his work place.  I have no way of knowing if or when he'll be there. Previously, when the police did follow up on these matters they had trouble finding him as well.  

 

Since my parts are being held hostage I have been wary of antagonizing him.  I still hope to get them back.  

 

I will never understand how this fell apart so terribly.  At no point and in no condition in my varied and mixed up life have I ever been so irresponsible and unresponsive.

 

Thank you all for your support,

Justin

[John_S_in_Penna]

... At no point and in no condition in my varied and mixed up life have I ever been so irresponsible and unresponsive.

 

Thank you all for your support,

Justin

 

Don't blame yourself for another's failing!  

Thank you for the update.

[smithbrother]

It would be helpful if you could find a car club in the area, maybe they could help.

You might GOOGLE car clubs in that town/area.

Dale in Indy

[smithbrother]

The town his business is in has a population of less than 500, and per capital income of less than 16k a year.

Rent there would be cheap, and everyone would know him. Probably no police, just county or state, state police might be worth a try along with county.

Dale in Indy

[c49er]

If the car is just a 4 door move on and buy another set out of a parts car. Not worth the hassle.

[CarFreak]

About a dozen years ago we went with Hemmings on their first Caribbean cruise.  There was a single guy at our dinner table who was part of the group and the distinctive thing about him was being drunk the entire week. 

 

He owned a FedEx Ground contracted route and also did woodgraining - he was from Ohio. 

 

Subsequently we saw him @ Hershey with a space between the Stadium & Choco World with a display of his wood grain restorations.  Nice workmanship but it was our general consensus that he still had a drinking problem.  One of those people that you wonder how they get through life. 

 

How many people from Ohio restore woodgrain?  Don't recall seeing him @ Hershey the past couple years but he definitely had a presence previously. 

 

Sort of along the line of contacting local car clubs and paying him a visit, perhaps ask someone from a local club or AACA Chapter to meander around and try to catch the guy at his business and perhaps he can collect the parts on your behalf.  Someone may know him personally and intercede on your behalf. 

 

Or maybe the local police could keep an eye on his property during their regular patrol of the area and stop to talk to him.  Several years ago I had two incidents at the same time from when I paid for expensive parts and they weren't being shipped.  Contact with the local police in British Columbia and somewhere on the east coast resulted in visits to the sellers and my money being returned promptly. 

 

Good luck!!

[Curti]

  Some years ago, I sold a Chevy tissue dispenser that I had advertised in Hemmings to a fellow in Tiffin Ohio that did not pay. He said he was a member of the VCCA so I sent the parcel out

prior to receiving payment  (shame on me).  He used the post office in his town as his address. I ended up contacting  the local police in his town. It turned out that the sheriff knew him. (suprise, suprise)

I told the sheriff to collect the money and give it to his favorite local charity. Within a week I had a check in hand. 

[50Traveler]

I don't know where the man is.  If I had any faith that I could find him at his business then I would have been there.  I have no address for him and the police don't know either.  All I know is that he does not live at the work address.  That being said, I may just take the 6 hour drive there, bring the biggest bolt cutters I can find, and do my best to retrieve the parts if they are where they should be.

 I have no faith that mere aggression will resolve anything.

[Curti]

In your first post, you said  "When I sent them out in early March of 2014"  How could you do that without his address ?

[Ttotired]

He has his business address, but he is saying the bloke isnt there all the time

 

I warn you against the bolt cutter idea for 2 reasons

 

First, unless the laws are different in the US, breaking into someones property is still "breaking in" regardless of wether you are trying to retrieve whats yours

And secondly, being a small town, I bet people would know him, maybe even be friends with him, maybe even be friends with guns who might not be sympathetic to your problems, if you get time to tell them, that is

 

I agree with others, start trying to find another set, I know some stuff is really hard to get, but is this stress worth it

 

And name this guy, you are at the point of them being gone anyway, I guess this is called shooting the hostage

 

What sort of quality are you expecting after all of this if you got them back anyway

 

Mick

[CarFreak]

I don't know where the man is.  If I had any faith that I could find him at his business then I would have been there.  

I have no address for him and the police don't know either.  All I know is that he does not live at the work address.

 

Have you tried searching Local or County tax records for property ownership?  I find many people this way.  With the internet, its much harder these days for people to fly under the radar. 

 

Not sure how Ohio Corporation, income/personal property tax, business records are handled, but many states require an Articles of Incorporation, registered DBA or some other means registered with the State or County Clerk. 

 

If you don't know how, PM me his name, PO Box address you have, name of business, phone number, any other info and I'll see what I can find. 

 

I looooove helping someone get the better of scammers & losers like this guy you're dealing with. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by CarFreak (see edit history)

[gossjh]

Being a woodgrainer, I thought I would check my files for possible help. I own Woodgrain by Estes, which has been in business for over fifty years. We have in that time only recorded two 47s and two 48 Desotos. This lack of other Desotos is likely due to the fact that our process is a bit expensive for such a car. This is apparently a two grain job and our records show two different grain sets. I do not know if that is due to actual differences in models or different choices made trying to match original. So at least some information is available to help out should you ever get a set again to grain. Back when I had Desotos, I had parts cars, so I would check with other owners incase they also would have parts cars. Good luck.

Joe Goss,

Woodgrain by Estes

[Guest Gashog]

50Traveler A quick Google search found multiple complaints against a man doing business in the area you alluded to (excuse the pun).

This guy, if it is the guy, should be relatively easy to track down.

I viewed what looked like a steel roofed pole barn surrounded by rusting antique cars via Google Maps satellite layer (no street view available).

Apparently this man is an alcoholic so, I'd wager, a phone call to the closest watering hole to his shop would turn him up.

 

Also, he is a vendor at one or more Carlisle events.

[50Traveler]

I drove to Ohio yesterday to see what I could find.  The address is truly in the middle of nothing and better served by all-terrain vehicles than a car.  His shop is open to anyone or anything with not even a door to prevent entering.  There is also a house trailer where a neighbor told me he used to live.  Then the toilet froze, pipes froze, and it began to decay.  It is a wreck that no one could live in now. In some places only the carpet is holding the walls together; the floor is long gone.  Inside the shop there were several areas separated by tarps or plastic sheeting for his work.  Other areas are full of the heaps of a hoarder.  Some parts are collapsing and everything is surrounded with snow-laden overgrowth. The one neighbor who I was able to talk with said he hadn't been there since early fall.   The mail in his mailbox dates from November and included several post office notifications of certified letters being held.  Two were mine.  Five letters were from the Better Business Bureau, and I bet they were notices of my complaints too.

 

Unfortunately, there are piles of garnish moldings, dashboards, and other assorted parts that are decaying.  One area had some especially nice parts that I think were part of his table display when he was going to shows. I also discovered some unopened boxes of parts that were sent to him for work.

 

If anyone from Peoria, Arizona reads this they should know that their parts are in several boxes from UPS with nothing but the UPS packing receipt for ID.

 

The twelve hour trip took two days due to horrible bad weather that had me stop for the night. I never found my parts.  I never found any indication that he is even alive.  I will start the search for the frames at the usual sources, but I will also start a new thread that might catch his attention or else someone who knows his fate.

Justin

Edited February 18, 2016 by 50Traveler (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Wow, that trip reads like a sequence from a horror movie. At least you found car parts, not body parts. A shame your missing pieces couldn't be recovered.