Riviera63 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I had ordered new fender emblems from CARS for my 1963 awhile back. Today I decided to remove the old ones so that I could clean them up for possible resale as they are still pretty decent. Removal looked pretty straight forward. I removed the inner fender access panel and attempted to remove the fasteners. Of the 7 studs on the driver's side only 5 had fasteners. Of the 5 I have only been able to remove 3. No matter what I do, I cannot get those last 2 to start unthreading off of the post. I have read several threads on the forum about the fender emblem removal and reattachment. From what I read it seems that they should have been attached with cut nuts. Neither of my emblems are attached with this type. I have attached a picture of the type on mine. Has anyone run into this type of fastener that has a tip on how to get this type off without breaking the stud off? From reading the threads it was suggested to reattach with barrel fasteners/tube nuts. There was a link to the CARS website to these particular fasteners. There are over 30 sizes/styles listed. Has anyone done this that can suggest which style/size they used successfully? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I have had 5 first generation Riv's over the years and they all had what I call speed nuts holding the fender script in place. I have never seen a fastener like the one you posted for this particular application so I don't want to give you bad advice. This is such a confined area and is tough to work on when something gets stuck and it would be a lot of effort to take the fender off. If your car has the original scripts you may want to hold onto them instead of cleaning and selling them. Some of the repros on the market are not exact reproductions even though they are being advertised as such. One way to tell on the first gen cars if you have an original script is the vertical line on the left of the capital R does not meet the top of the R. Some of the repros do not leave the gap and the vertical line connects to the top of the R. They most likely did this to keep tooling costs down. To make it even more interesting, this only applies to the scripts on the fenders. The scripts on the rear of 64's and 65's never had the gap. I know it is a minor point but some are really concerned about authenticity. Either way, a shiny repro will look better than a dull original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Pat, Thanks for the info. One never stops learning about these cars. It appears that these emblems are the one and only things removed when the car was painted. I had figured that the fasteners were not original as I had only seen speed/cut nuts on any trim that I dealt with on my other cars. I suppose the original fasteners got lost after they were removed and they used whatever they could to reattach. I went and checked my emblems and they have the break on the R. I assume they are originals. I checked the repros that I got from CARS and they too have the break which makes me happy as I do like authentic whenever possible. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 When I installed mine, CARS actually sent me something like you pictured as a test. They went on alot nicer then the speed nuts from the factory, but I was concerned they would snap off studs. The style you posted making installing a ton easier because you can just push them on with a 1/4 socket, but as you found out its alot harder to remove, especially if the fenders are installed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Bill, They probably used this type of fastener because the stud on the back of the emblem was deteriorated and not able to provide enough diameter for a speed nut to grab. Try spinning the clip as you would a nut and it may walk off the emblem stud. Not sure saving the originals is worth it? Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I have had 5 first generation Riv's over the years and they all had what I call speed nuts holding the fender script in place. I have never seen a fastener like the one you posted for this particular application so I don't want to give you bad advice. This is such a confined area and is tough to work on when something gets stuck and it would be a lot of effort to take the fender off. If your car has the original scripts you may want to hold onto them instead of cleaning and selling them. Some of the repros on the market are not exact reproductions even though they are being advertised as such. One way to tell on the first gen cars if you have an original script is the vertical line on the left of the capital R does not meet the top of the R. Some of the repros do not leave the gap and the vertical line connects to the top of the R. They most likely did this to keep tooling costs down. To make it even more interesting, this only applies to the scripts on the fenders. The scripts on the rear of 64's and 65's never had the gap. I know it is a minor point but some are really concerned about authenticity. Either way, a shiny repro will look better than a dull original.Pat, As I`m sure you know but for the sake of clarity the first gen scripts are "open" as you describe but starting in `66 (except on the GS model) the script is "closed". I have had many NOS scripts, new in the box, which were closed and Buick cataloged the later closed scripts for application to the first gen cars. There was a time when only the closed scripts were available in reproduction but now, as Bill has confirmed, both closed and open scripts are available. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Tom (or anyone else.) Is anyone reproducing the trunk lid emblem for the '64? I sent one to Jeff at CARS quite some time ago and he was going to look into getting it reproduced but I haven't heard anything yet. The '64 trunk emblem looks like the '65 rear emblem and the fender emblems but it has a slight curve at the top where it wraps along the curve on the lid. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Tom, I knew they went to a closed script beginning in 66 but I didn't realize that the open script was taken out of service in later years. I have been lucky over the years in finding NOS open scripts packaged with the speed nuts at very reasonable prices. I once stopped in to a Buick dealer in the late 70's for a hood ornament for my 64. The parts guy was happy to see me telling me he couldn't wait to get them off his shelf and sold me the ornaments for .50 cents a piece. I took the whole box!! Those days are certainly gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Ed, I haven't seen any offered yet and it may be a hard sell to get someone to reproduce it as it was a one year only design. Hopefully someone will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 What I've always done on these type of nameplates with pins going into the holes is when I go back with the emblemI don't use any kind of nut, clip or fastener on the back. What I do is dab a little 3M yellow weatherstrip cement on each pin thenput the emblem on and walk away for 24 hours till it dries completely. Takes ten seconds and done.......plus later on if you need to remove it gentle prying will remove it easily, no standing on your head trying to remove nuts on the back. The emblems on my GTO have been held on this way for 44 years and have been on and off several times no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 For those who would like to see the difference in fender scripts, check out the burgundy/tan 64 that is on ebay right now. There are close ups of each fender and you will see that one fender has the open script and the other fender has a closed script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Winston, I will consider this option as I like the ability to be able to attach and then remove easily if I have to. Thanks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 I finally got the last 2 fasteners off of my fender emblem. I brought out the new emblems to see how they would look. I had somewhat of a disappointment as the new emblems looked great but, did not fit quite right. It seemed as if one of the studs was off a little bit and it just wouldn't fit flush against the sheet metal like the original. It felt as if I would have tried to push in the emblem to fit it flush it would break. I tried both emblems with the same result. I tried starting the insertion at different stud locations with the same result. I would grab the old one and it would just slip right in and fit perfectly. I made the decision that the new emblems were not going to work and that I would have to take a look at the original one again to see if it was able to be cleaned up to an acceptable level. After removing the emblem it was apparent that when the car was painted they did not remove the emblems as I had thought. (It looks like another trip to the body shop next spring.) I don't know what they did when they painted but, they definitely did not remove them before paint was applied. Upon closer inspection it looked as if what I had taken to tarnished, faded chrome was chrome with a fine coating of white paint. I soaked it in paint remover for a few minutes, scrubbed it up good with a wire brush and applied metal polish with fine steel wool. The result was maybe not quite as good as a new one but, I was very happy with the result. I have attached a picture of my original emblem and a picture of one of the new ones for comparison. CARS was less than thrilled that I wanted to return them but, said they would take them back. I was fortunate that I did this now and not next year as I had originally planned so that I was not stuck with 2 emblems that did not fit my car. I still would like input from anyone that has used the barrel/tube nuts to attach emblems as to what style and size they used. Thanks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Based on your issue with removing the fasteners you now know why the body shop didn't remove them! Some repros are hit or miss for an exact fit. Buying items for my 71 Monte Carlo which I bought new has been really difficult for a perfect fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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