dslkevin Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I recently acquired a 1932 Buick 90 and am starting to restore it. It is a solid car and mostly complete. It has not run since 1964. The interior is shot. The body is solid with slight surface rust only. My goal with this car is to keep it entirely stock. I have read numerous threads on this site and I see there is a wealth of knowledge here. What I am looking for now is an updraft carburetor. The car has an downdraft on it now. I believe I am looking for a Marvel 10-1503 carburetor(correct me if I have the wrong #). I will also be needing the heat riser and associated parts for it. Does anyone know where I can find these items? What is the going rate for them? Attached is a picture of the current carb setup. The car did come with the correct intake manifold separately. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) You are correct on the number, which is stamped with tiny numbers on the underside of the carburetor. The carburetors are quite scarce for a couple of reasons: (1) used only on 1932 series 80 and series 90 Buicks, (2) fragility! When we were still restoring Marvels 25 years ago, we were shipped several that were destroyed in shipment by improper packaging. Very disheartening to have to call a customer and tell him his carburetor was destroyed in shipping because he didn't properly wrap the unit. I do not know current value (we don't have one), but would guess it would be whatever price the seller placed on it (if you find one at all). Free advice (probably worth at least as much as you paid for it ): If you do find one that is within your budget GO GET IT!!! The carb has a heavy cast iron center section to which a very fragile zinc alloy bowl is bolted on one end, and an equally fragile zinc alloy air intake is bolted on the other end. If shipped, the entire unit should be wrapped in several layers of bubble wrap, boxed with crushed paper between the bubble wrap and the box, inserted into a larger second box with at 3 inches of crushed paper between the two boxes in all directions. Better yet, go get it; even if you live on the east coast and find the carb on the west coast! And if you ignore the above and do have one shipped, have the heat riser removed from the carb and shipped separately. Jon. Edited October 7, 2015 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigersdad Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Kevin - Let us know if you find one along with the heat riser. I have been looking for a spare for years. That goes for the riser, too! JayNovato, CA 1932 Buick Model 8-86 Victoria Travelers Coupe1930 Packard 8 726 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Great car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Newbie. My suggestion, is to get it running with the manifold as it is, because if you keep looking for the proper carb waiting for the restoration (but you said "keep it stock",, so I am not sure how far you wat to go. I will check some sources that do not use the inyrtnrt aaand see what they have as extras. Good luck with the project. PS, if you want a driver, keep the downdraft, much easier to operate, but Marvel carbs work just fine if well maintained. I note the Wizrd Control is also disconnected, so there is other work do be done. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Will be an interesting project to put it back stock. I can help wherever I can, but mine is/were 1933 90s. One I put together from the ground up, other stock. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Compared to you guys with the early thirties Buicks guys like me with a 38 have it really easy. I am in awe of the efforts you guys take to accomplishyour projects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Pretty easy to do- Just toss bags of money at it for 5 years, then bingo, you are there. 32 and especially 33 is very rare stuff. As Jon or Jay said, buy it or wait, IF you can find it. I had a tons of parts that came with my first 90.Keep us posted- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslkevin Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Thanks for the replies. I see it is hard to find parts for this car. The car is is mostly complete. My goal for this car is to eventually show it. I want to try to keep it as close to 100% original if I can. I am expecting it to take 5 years(and much green) to complete the project. The short term goal(this winter) is to get the car running. It does run if I pour a little gas in the intake. I am on the lookout for parts for it. I may have a lead on an original carb and heat riser. Once I get to the place I can run the engine, I would like to see if it is in good enough shape to run it the way it is or if I need to plan on rebuilding it. Next year I would like to pull the body off and start getting the frame prepped for powder coating. Right now I am trying to do some research on the car and compile a list of parts to be on the look out for. I am hoping to visit Mac Blair in the coming weeks and take some pictures of a restored car. Any suggestions about how to proceed with this project are appreciated. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Mac is your man on this, from what I know about 32s. Bob Engle should be chiming in and others too. This is an excellent recourse. What I do is first take inventory of what you have and what you need, like a list. There will be a lot of stuff you don't know about till you get into it. Then you have a " need " list to start your hunt. 90s are a special breed, lot of different pieces and parts. You'll be needing correct paint codes, interior material, wood maybe, instruments, woodgraining......a million tiny stuff. You'll get there. Fun project !!!! Takes time. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 If it was mine I wouldn't powder coat the frame. For one, thats not original and has a different texture but for another powder coating has some drawbacks. I have power coated many motorcycle frames but don't do it anymore. Its easy for some powder coating to come off if there is the slightest bit of dirt or oil on a frame when its coated. Sand blasting does not always guarantee a perfect surface. If powder coating comes off in some small spot it looks like a piece of plastic came off and regular paint used to patch it will show. Unlike a car antique motorcycle frames are very visible so any imperfections stand out. There are many good paints available today that will do a better job and look more authentic than powder coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Agree with LV Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Before spending much effort to get the motor running, Drop the oil pan and clean the sludge out of the pan and oil screen. I would also remove and bypass the oil filter. Drain and flush fuel system. Mac is your go to guy for 90 series 32 Buicks. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslkevin Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 I will look into paint for the frame instead of powder coat. I got the idea of powder coating from the forum. Thanks for the suggestion. I did pull the oil pan about 7 years ago(helping my dad with it). The engine was stuck. Pulled the head and sent it to a machine shop. The valves were stuck. Pulled the oil pan and 1 piston. Everything looked very clean. Put it back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigersdad Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sandy - Do you have your Wizard Control hooked up? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslkevin Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I do not have the wizard control hooked up at this time. I think I have most of the parts to hook it up, but I may need a little bit. I haven't looked closely at that part yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Haaaa, I guess a jump here in messages- No I do not have the Wizard hooked up. I'm missing the " coffee can " any way. What a bad design they did on that. Dangerous too. Had the same on my 32 Dodges, free-wheeling. The 1933 John Dillinger Essex I had, the same. Try to brake out a 1933 Buick 90, rolling along with the Wizard.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigersdad Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Same here on the Wizard Control. Have heard the same thing from Buick owners out here in the West. Very problematic. Bob Engle had mentioned the same thing that if not done correctly, lot's of problems! Edited October 13, 2015 by tigersdad (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Regarding painting your chassis. I have done a few bare chassis` now and I tend to get them sandblasted first, then paint with a two-pack etch primer than a two-pack gloss paint. It shines without polishing and sets as hard as nails, without any of the difficulties with powder coating. Just observe all the health and safety aspects of applying two-pack (iso-cyanate) paints!! By the way, I always use cellulose enamel for the bodywork, mixing clear lacquer in the last couple of coats. It makes a lovely shine with minimal polishing and avoids the plasticky look that two-pack can give on the body. By the way, what is the Wizard Control? Is that free-wheeling? Adam.. Edited October 14, 2015 by Alfa (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janousek Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Why don't you pull the motor and go through it? If you get it running and restore the car around it then it will bite you in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslkevin Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Not sure what to think about going through the engine. My thoughts right now are to get it running. If the engine runs fairly smooth, does not have allot of blow-by and has good compression then I would probably just leave it alone. The head was already redone(valves were stuck). This winter or spring of next year I want to pull the body off and work on getting the rolling chassis cleaned up and rebuilt(new paint, bearings, seals). At that time I could redo the engine. Couple questions regarding potential rebuilding the engine.I don't know much about babbitt bearings. Can I rebuild the engine with out needing to redo the babbitt the bearings?Can I use newer connecting rods that have replaceable bearings?If I did rebuild I would probably be better off using aluminum pistons? Up the compression ration? What pistons would you recommend? Where would I get some?Any other suggestions concerning a rebuild? I want to keep the updraft carb for show purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Since you wish to keep the original Marvel updraft, I would go very easy on performance modifications (ie increased compression) to the engine. The Marvel does not lend itself well to re-calibration. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janousek Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 You can inspect the babbit for flaking and plastigage the clearances. 320 rods with inserts are different. We had our 31' converted to inserts. Expensive. I bumped our compression from 4.5 on a 31' 344 to around 6.5 if I remember right. Done with pistons but some guys shave the head. At least inspect the lower end, check the timing gears, and install new rings. Otherwise your gonna end up doing things twice. Sometimes you get lucky but not very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslkevin Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Janousek, Where did you get your rods and pistons? What carb are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 If you are determined to convert to bearing inserts instead of babbit, you will probably have to have your existing rods converted. Egge has pistons. Unless you plan to do all the compression raising tricks, I would stay with the babbit bearings. Converting main bearings and cam bearings to inserts is expensive! Babbit works fine if set up properly. These early Buick 8s tend to wear the cylinders into a taper. Before doing pistons and Rings, check the taper in the bores as you may have to overbore and install oversize pistons and rings. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 There is nothing wrong with babbit, its big drawback is when you have to replace it, at that time inserts would be much much easier. There are shops that specialize in babbit bearings, the cost is more than you'll like but to switch to inserts is also pricey. Babbit will most likely outlast its owner if the oil is kept clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janousek Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Stock rods machined for inserts. If you can afford it why not get rid of the babbit. The long stroke of this engine can pound out the babbit if spun hard. Insert shells on a machined retainer are a great platform for a trouble free engine. Ross racing pistons made the pistons. They will have the profile in their computer. Next go around I'd get more skirt on the piston though. When cold and under load it can piston slap. Let it warm up before running it hard eliminates it. It's barely noticable but it is there. Kinda like my 6.0 Chevy truck. Anyone with a Chevy 5.3 or 6.0 will know what I mean. Those engines have zero piston skirt. I'm using a rochester downdraft. It was on the car and runs so good I haven't gotten around to play with the original. But.... I haven't found a car of this era that couldn't use a little compression. Especially updrafts as it helps pull fuel in quicker for starting. . 4.5 to 1 compression was for the crappy fuel they had back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslkevin Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Janouske, Who did your machine work? Rods? I talked to Terrill Machine and they told me they don't do any that old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janousek Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Fremont Auto Parts Fremont, Ohio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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