New guy, new (to me) '67 GS

[RoadShark]

Hello - I wanted to share my recently acquired '67 GS with a knowledgeable audience.  I've owned a variety of GM A-bodies and B-bodies in the past, but this is my first E-body.

 

Three things I like about this one: it's unmolested, there's no vinyl top, and no A/C.  I wish it had a console, but I'm not complaining - it's tough to option a used car!

 

I'm looking forward to gaining some knowledge from this forum.

 

Thanks in advance...

[JZRIV]

Congratulations RoadShark. Indeed that car looks VERY straight and unmolested. Bumpers and trim fit nicely.

[RoadShark]

Thanks.  I think it may have had one "off-road adventure" early in it's life.  The passenger's front fender got replaced - but it looks like it got replaced by an original GS-badged fender of the same color.

 

It looks well-maintained.  I'm used to opening the diff on old cars and having syrupy-coffee come out, but this one looked good.  So does the xmsn fluid.

 

3.42 posi.  Can't find the code on the axle tube.  Switch-pitch works too!

 

[JZRIV]

How many miles on the car? Sometimes the axle code was not stamped very deep and with a little scale rust very hard to see if at all. Usually though you can find part of the X with circle or part of the P or Y with careful sanding. Your air cleaner looks real nice. Is the metal strap still on the center hood insulation?

[68RIVGS]

Great '67GS - it looks like a definite keeper.

Unmolested and probably just needs some TLC ! 

Second generation E bodies look better without the vinyl (... just MHO), and who needs AC anyways ?

Thanks for sharing your car, along with the great photos - enjoy !!

[rocky5517]

When I was looking at which year Riv to buy, I went the the 67, mainly becasue a lot of people know how to work on the 430, plus parts are still around. I've not once regretted it.  I'll post some pix of mine- color is Platinum Mist if I'm not mistaken.

[RoadShark]

How many miles on the car? Sometimes the axle code was not stamped very deep and with a little scale rust very hard to see if at all. Usually though you can find part of the X with circle or part of the P or Y with careful sanding. Your air cleaner looks real nice. Is the metal strap still on the center hood insulation?

The odometer says 114k.  Looks about right.

 

There's a fair amount of rust (although the back window hasn't gone through yet) so it may well be lost to the elements.

 

Here's a shot under the hood:

[RoadShark]

Great '67GS - it looks like a definite keeper.

Unmolested and probably just needs some TLC ! 

Second generation E bodies look better without the vinyl (... just MHO), and who needs AC anyways ?

Thanks for sharing your car, along with the great photos - enjoy !!

Yeah - I'm in Maine.  It only really gets hot for a couple of weeks each year.  The A/C is just in the way of the wrenchin' the rest of the time.

[RoadShark]

When I was looking at which year Riv to buy, I went the the 67, mainly becasue a lot of people know how to work on the 430, plus parts are still around. I've not once regretted it.  I'll post some pix of mine- color is Platinum Mist if I'm not mistaken.

My color code is PP which I read to be Platinum Mist.  It may get a re-squirt in a couple of years.  Concentrating on the suspension right now.

[RoadShark]

The Shark doesn't feel very "shark" yet - kinda rides and turns like a drunk whale.  The other GM cars I've had really responded to a fresh set of shocks and springs.

 

The front springs will have to wait until the possible disc brake conversion.  I found the front Bilsteins and sway bar at PST.  The stock front sway bar was soooo small, and the bushings were all shot.  The new bar is 1 1/8".  They're in now.

Edited October 2, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[RoadShark]

The transmission mount was shot and there was only one bolt holding it to the cross member.  The other insert had gotten loose.  Got a new one from TA performance and popped it in.

Edited October 5, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[Pat Curran]

Welcome to the forum and do yourself a favor by joining the Riviera Owners Association.  The benefits will be well worth it.  Nice unmolested Riv you have there.  The fact that the "Star Wars" air cleaner is still with the car is worth the price of admission!  Let us know how we can help!

[RoadShark]

Thanks - I joined already.  I'm ROA 14859.  Very interested in anything that goes on in the New England region.

 

Oh - and I evicted the mouse that was living in front of the torque converter.

 

Next up was the rear suspension.  I pulled the track bar.  Sheesh -apparently ride was paramount back then because the bushings were rubber and windowed!

 

I put in polygraphite pieces from PST.

[RoadShark]

Thank God for 3/4" drive breaker bars, 'cuz I'm breaking some 48-year-old bolts!

 

It doesn't look like my car came with the H2 suspension.  Not surprising since it's not a heavily-optioned GS.  A little trip to the Rock Auto site shows a variety of springs along with the specs.   AC Delco had some HD rear springs listed that were stiffer and shorter than the standard offering.  The picture below shows the new spring on the left and the old spring (with taller free-height, slightly smaller wire diameter, and more coils) on the right.

 

Race Car Dynamics - the place that offers the black Bilsteins for older cars - has a part number listed for the Riv, but absolutely no one has them in stock.  You can, however, find the Electra shocks.  They're an inch shorter.  Hollander says they interchange.  We'll see if the reduced length works or not.

 

Apparently the lower rear control arms are the same as A-body, so there's lots to choose from.  I ordered a set of tubular ones with poly bushings.  No pics yet.

 

Here's a bad pic of the driver's side.  Haven't hooked up the shock yet and haven't done the passenger side yet.

Edited October 2, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[Pat Curran]

I also like the wheel covers on your car but you will find that they are impossible to keep clean.  Most have installed the chrome "road wheels" today and I have had several Rivs with them, but it is nice to see that the wheel covers are still on the car, particularly a GS.

[RoadShark]

I also like the wheel covers on your car but you will find that they are impossible to keep clean.  Most have installed the chrome "road wheels" today and I have had several Rivs with them, but it is nice to see that the wheel covers are still on the car, particularly a GS.

I can't believe how heavy those wheel covers are!  It looks like they got their own balance due to the weight!

 

I think I'm going to put the "Star Wars" air cleaner on display in the garage and put the original wheel covers away.  Thinking about a 17-inch set of these:

[68RIVGS]

That original SW air cleaner will fetch some good coin if you get tired of displaying it !

[RoadShark]

That original SW air cleaner will fetch some good coin if you get tired of displaying it !

Ah, but to me good Detroit art work like that is priceless...

[JZRIV]

Welcome to ROA Roadshark and thanks for joining. Keep the updates coming. Also check the drive shaft center support bearing and mount. If its original it will need replaced if you intend to drive it much.

 

The 67 GS automatically came with the heavy duty suspension which included heavier springs and shocks. You mentioned checking the spring wire diameter. Do you recall what the diameter was on the original spring?

Attached is pic of the insulation retainer I was referring to above. You may consider leaving the iconic Starwars on the car for shows/cruises as its always a BIG attention getter and conversation piece.

 

 

[RoadShark]

Thanks for the hood pic - if mine had that it is long gone.

 

I definitely plan on putting some miles on next summer, so I guess the center bearing will have to be replaced.  Is it easy to find a new one?

 

OK - I guess I confused the H2 suspension with the faster ratio steering box which appears to have been an option whether you had a GS or not.  Maybe my car's not an original GS?  I dunno - the 3.42 posi is there along with the air cleaner.  Looking at the back side of the GS emblem on the driver's side makes me think it came from the factory that way.

 

This info is from Rock Auto's website (AC Delco doesn't exactly mean what it used to, and RA certainly isn't always accurate (check what they list for a diff cover gasket)):

 

These are the springs I ordered: ACDELCO 45H2044 {#88913714}  Rear; Heavy Duty

Inside Diameter Wire Diameter Load Height Free Height 5.562 " 0.610 " 8.50 " 16.13 "

 

 

They also had these listed: ACDELCO 45H2007 {#88913677} Rear

 

Inside Diameter Wire Diameter Load Height Free Height 5.570 " 0.593 " 9.00 " 17.53 "

 

I used a vernier on my old spring.  It's rusty so keep in mind that a good measurement may be tough to get.  I measured .594"

 

The old (and tired) spring measures 16 1/2" free height.  It has 5 full coils.

 

And, despite what the specs say above, the new spring measures 15 7/8" free height.  It has 4 full coils.

Edited October 3, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[RoadShark]

Here's some better pics of the new lower control arms, springs, and shocks.  I'm doing a bit-by-bit spray can restoration.  I'm trying to resist the temptation to do a frame-off.  I've done several in the past, but I just don't think I have one in me right now.  Still haven't finish my old pickup.  At least the car will be stored indoors and not even see much rain - so the rust shouldn't progress much.  I really want to drive it soon too and not wait years for a frame-off.

 

I already ordered up body mounts and brake lines.  This could get out of hand very easily.  

 

The exhaust was in the way, so I cut it after the mufflers.  You'll see why this isn't a big deal in the next post.

 

[RoadShark]

Both exhaust manifolds are cracked.  One is more than halfway through.  Not the sweetest sound in the world.   I want to hear the big Buick purr.

 

Read a lot about cast iron welding  and priced out used manifolds and then decided on the easy way out.  Thanks TA!

 

[RoadShark]

Cracks.  I've got cracks.  This weld, where the front frame attaches to the cradle that goes under the oil pan, looks like it may not have been that great from the factory.  It's gonna be fun to weld, with the fuel lines running through the frame there.  Gonna have to remove them when the time comes.

 

Can anyone tell me if that's the stock routing of the fuel lines - through the frame cradle?

 

 

[RoadShark]

OK - returning to the rear springs discussion, I found the '67 Option Codes in an old post on this site.  So it looks like there may have been Standard, Heavy Duty, and Trailering springs?  Not sure if there were only these three, or if the Handling Package and Heavy Duty were different.  Oh well, I wanted new, stiffer, fairly low springs and that's what I got.

 

There's also the progressive springs available, which I assume is an aftermarket-only thing.  I've never like those, since on bumpy roads you go through the "soft" region pretty quick and then get a kick in the pants from the "stiff" region.

 

[JZRIV]

Interesting on the track bars as I did not know A-body ones were same.

The fuel hoses route through the frame around the inside of pass side coil spring housing. A real pain to replace hoses unless the spring is removed but it can be done. The old hoses should be replaced not just for age but also to insure hose is compatible with todays fuel. Looks like a poor factory weld on the frame alright. I have discovered many poor quality issues from the factory over the years.

Replacement coil springs have frustrated many. Buying direct replacements often results in the car sitting too high evidenced by the number of cars with replacement springs that are easily detectable without looking under the car. It soundslike you have experience with springs so you'll get it figured out to suit your desire. I have an original GS rear spring so I'll compare the diameter but as you say it is difficult to get a precise reading on a rusty spring.

Originally the exhaust manifolds did not use gaskets but often people put them in unknowingly. Once gaskets are installed torque on the bolts becomes very critical or they may crack which may or may not be the cause with yours as sometimes they just crack from fatigue. Let us know how those headers fit and keep the info coming.

No don't do a frame off! Be careful replacing body mounts. Often the cage nuts will break loose in the cage then you have opened the giant can of worms. The firewall nuts you can get at - sort of. The ones toward the rear will need a hole cut in the body mounting channel to access the nuts. Proceed with caution.

[68RIVGS]

Who makes the headers, and where did you find them RS - will they fit a '68 430? 

I'm also dealing with the dreaded 'cracked' manifold situation, and have been procrastinating on replacing the existing passenger side manifold. Those headers look pretty decent, and would definitely change the exhaust sound to something more desirable !

Who, and where did the solid trailing arms come from?

Edited October 5, 2015 by 68RIVGS (see edit history)

[Rivdrivn]

Who makes the headers, and where did you find them RS - will they fit a '68 430? 

I'm also dealing with the dreaded 'cracked' manifold situation, and have been procrastinating on replacing the existing passenger side manifold. Those headers look pretty decent, and would definitely change the exhaust sound to something more desirable !

Who, and where did the solid trailing arms come from?

TA Performance makes great shorty headers for 2nd generation Rivs. They are based on the original Kenne Bell design. Their exhaust systems are also very nice.trim.3373D499-20DA-431E-BEC2-112D596F646B.MOV

[Guest taongisurvivor]

Rivdrivn:  Can you post a pic of the two-piece upper control arm on top of the rear differential.  I have just removed my posi-differential on my 67 and had it blasted, primed and painted.  I took apart the upper control arm and replaced the bolts and bushings, but wanted to make sure the orientation was correct (if it even matters) when I re-install the unit this weekend.  I also had the frame blasted around the differential mounting area, and I have primed and painted that area, plus I have replaced both shocks and all of the brake lines.  It's looking good under there but I want to make sure I get it back together the way it should be.

 

Gordon

[RoadShark]

Interesting on the track bars as I did not know A-body ones were same.

The fuel hoses route through the frame around the inside of pass side coil spring housing. A real pain to replace hoses unless the spring is removed but it can be done. The old hoses should be replaced not just for age but also to insure hose is compatible with todays fuel. Looks like a poor factory weld on the frame alright. I have discovered many poor quality issues from the factory over the years.

Replacement coil springs have frustrated many. Buying direct replacements often results in the car sitting too high evidenced by the number of cars with replacement springs that are easily detectable without looking under the car. It soundslike you have experience with springs so you'll get it figured out to suit your desire. I have an original GS rear spring so I'll compare the diameter but as you say it is difficult to get a precise reading on a rusty spring.

Originally the exhaust manifolds did not use gaskets but often people put them in unknowingly. Once gaskets are installed torque on the bolts becomes very critical or they may crack which may or may not be the cause with yours as sometimes they just crack from fatigue. Let us know how those headers fit and keep the info coming.

No don't do a frame off! Be careful replacing body mounts. Often the cage nuts will break loose in the cage then you have opened the giant can of worms. The firewall nuts you can get at - sort of. The ones toward the rear will need a hole cut in the body mounting channel to access the nuts. Proceed with caution.

Thanks for the info.  It looks like the previous owner, who flipped the car, replaced those fuel lines.  The ones in the back look original though, so I think the fuel tank may come out this winter for a little painting and replacement of the lines.

 

Interesting tidbit about the exhaust manifolds.

 

I had a couple of body mount retainers break on my Biscayne.  It was a pain.  I used the impact wrench on those.  On the Riviera I used a 1/2" breaker bar and went slow.  I got the two near the rear springs out without breaking the retainer.  Phew!

 

Yeah - no frame off.  I want to make some upgrades, but nothing that can't be undone easily.  Stock interior.  As far as the exterior goes - it's tough to improve on that styling.

Edited October 5, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[RoadShark]

Who makes the headers, and where did you find them RS - will they fit a '68 430? 

I'm also dealing with the dreaded 'cracked' manifold situation, and have been procrastinating on replacing the existing passenger side manifold. Those headers look pretty decent, and would definitely change the exhaust sound to something more desirable !

Who, and where did the solid trailing arms come from?

As Rivdrivn said, TA Performance makes the headers.  The description says "originally made for Cruciform framed ('67-'70) Rivieras, but also fit other popular combinations and transplants."  Get their paper catalog as it is different than their on-line one and makes for good reading.

 

I first read about the headers here:  http://www.1badriv.com/knowledge.htm#TA%20Shorty%20Headers

 

I got their 2-1/2" exhaust system too and it looks real nice with smooth bends.  Haven't tried the fit yet though.  It is designed for the stock manifolds, but the headers come with adapters that will need to be welded on.

 

These are the trailing arms I got.  They're thick-walled tube or solid.  Slightly heavier than stock, but I'll bet they deflect less.  I think I can make a bracket so that I can attach the Addco rear sway bar later if I want.

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ridetech/029/11144499/10002/-1

 

Those were kind of an impulse buy since I was tearing into the rear suspension anyway.  You may be able to find a cheaper, lighter, better solution among the A-body arms.

Edited October 5, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[RoadShark]

Here's some pics of the upper arm.  The bushings look pretty good so I'm not going to mess with it right now.  It only counteracts rotational loads so I think it faired better than the lowers or the pan hard rod.

 

 

[Guest taongisurvivor]

Perfect!  Thanks!!

[68RIVGS]

Thanks for all the info RoadShark, your pictorial coverage is excellent and much appreciated !!

[rocky5517]

Roadshark

Enclosed see before and after of my engine compartment. I'm no mechanic but cleaning, painting, screwing around in the engine compartment over the winter was fun and satisfying. As you have seen there is a world of info from the most knowledgable Riv guys in the world here at your fingertips.

  I picked up many tips re detailing, including my fav, using tin foil to mask around misc components. Just make sure you disconnect the battery first.

[rocky5517]

I'll try the pix again

[RoadShark]

Roadshark

Enclosed see before and after of my engine compartment. I'm no mechanic but cleaning, painting, screwing around in the engine compartment over the winter was fun and satisfying. As you have seen there is a world of info from the most knowledgable Riv guys in the world here at your fingertips.

  I picked up many tips re detailing, including my fav, using tin foil to mask around misc components. Just make sure you disconnect the battery first.

Rocky - I sure appreciate the resource here, especially since the X-frame E-body is a new thing to me.

 

You sure transformed that engine bay.  The fact that you did it without pulling the engine is all the more impressive.

 

I finished painting the passenger's side of the rear suspension area this evening.  Good thing because the temperatures are dropping and the light is fading.  Should have the suspension squared-away by this weekend.  Picking up some new tires (the ones on it had a '91 date code!) and will take it for a spin.

[RoadShark]

Well - I got the rear suspension back together.  The Bilsteins for the rear were not available.  I ordered up the Electra 225 shocks.  They bolt-in but are 1" shorter.  I'm near full-extension in the installed condition.  We'll see how that works out.  So far, so good.

 

Got a new set of four P235-75R15 XL Firestone Destination LE2 put on the old rims.  

 

I took it for a ride yesterday.  It rides really nice.  The handling is much improved, however the new weak points are showing themselves.  The steering box is obviously shot.  You turn the wheel and there's a significant dead spot.  I was planning on replacing it when I go in to put the headers on.  Got one from Lares that I need to paint this weekend before it gets too cold.  New coupling too.

 

Here's some pics of the stance with the new springs in the rear, new shocks all around, and the old springs up front.  Not the best pics, I'll see if I can get some better ones.

 

Opinions on the ride height are welcomed...

Edited October 11, 2015 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

Ride height looks good though a little hard to tell not being on level surface. Definitely not too low. As you probably know the rear shocks will bottom out on stroke when you raise the frame of the car and essentially be holding the weight of axle. I doubt 1" shorter will make much difference once on ground and in normal usage.

I see you have the head rest option. Passenger seat recliner too? If you get a chance please post a pic of the Fisher body tag on firewall. What other options does car have? Looks like maybe rear a defroster.

[RoadShark]

Any help decoding the tag would be appreciated.

 

I have electric windows, electric antenna, AM/FM, head rests, electric front seat, but I don't think it reclines, and it looks like rear defrost.

 

[RoadShark]

Correction - I do have the passenger recline.  All-in-all the interior isn't too bad.  At least nobody cut the dash - I hate when that happens.

 

Any easy way to put a shoulder belt in this car?