33 Ply PD Carb

[Guest Katies33PD]

Need help identifying this carb. Pretty sure it is a Marvel BorgWarner Model 10-2802-1 Engine may have come out of a 38 Dodge PU

Car is hard to start and it is leaking fuel so it's time for a rebuild.

 

Parts kit available? Rebuild by a carb shop?? Recommendations???

 

 

 

 

 

[carbking]

The Marvel/Schebler 10-2802 unit has the number stamped on the top casting. This is a universal, one size fits all (none well ) that was sold through the discount auto parts stores to those customers too frugal to buy a rebuilding kit for the original carb (which on a 1933 Plymouth would be a Carter).

 

70 years ago, Borg/Warner offered a gasket set.

 

Today, I doubt you will find a parts kit. We will not produce one (liability).

 

I will also doubt you can find a professional willing to work on this unit.

 

(Opinion) The Carter type Ball & Ball carbs used by Plymouth from 1933 to 1938 were not the best carbs. If you doubt this, look at how many different carbs they tried each year trying to get one to work. Lots of aftermarket carbs (some, including this one, much worse than the original) were sold. In 1939, Carter finally came out with a Ball & Ball design that would half-way work (although not as well as their standard W series carbs); and a service replacement was produced to replace all 1933 ~ 1938 Plymouth carbs.

 

AND it was sold not as an aftermarket carb, but a factory service replacement. The Carter number was 439s. I don't remember the Plymouth number.

 

This link will show the number of Ball & Ball carbs issued from 1933 ~ 1938:  http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kplymouth.htm

 

And the above is information, not a sales pitch; we have been sold out of the 439s for years. They do show up on ebay.

 

Jon.

Edited August 30, 2015 by carbking (see edit history)

[Guest Katies33PD]

Not what I wanted to hear ;-(

 

Any recommendations for a replacement besides the unobtainable 439? We are not looking for 100% original just functional.

 

Thanks.

[carbking]

Unobtainable???

 

There are three on Ebay right now. Do this search: Carter 439

 

As far as a different replacement: if it were my car, and I didn't care about originality, then it would get a Chevrolet carb very quickly, probably a 420s. Of course, you will take some flak from your Plymouth friends (until you go on tour with them, and never use as much fuel when you fill up ). And you might have clutch and transmission issues because of the increased power .

 

Jon.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

The original carb on a '33 was indeed not very good. The upper bowl cover warped with age and has to be sanded down to fit to stop leaks. It got a web on it the next year to stiffen the cover. But if you are a stickler for authenticity your '33 must NOT have the stiffener web on the bowl cover. They are indeed B+B Carters Model 6. You'll need to put a couple of gaskets in and some modern fuel sealer. You'll eventually get it stopped. The throttle pivot wears loose in the body and you have to find some way of sleeving the two sides. 1935 guts work much much better and with a vacuum gauge you can actually get a peak at about 15 psi. The engines weren't great so you still get a bit of flutter caused,I suspect, by the valves but what the hell it's 82 years old!!! They're a pig on gas but but can use low test 80/87 10% alcohol with impunity with no problems what's so ever. Hardened valve seats and all that. Been there,done that.     

[ply33]

The original carb on a '33 was indeed not very good. The upper bowl cover warped with age and has to be sanded down to fit to stop leaks. It got a web on it the next year to stiffen the cover. But if you are a stickler for authenticity your '33 must NOT have the stiffener web on the bowl cover. They are indeed B+B Carters Model 6. You'll need to put a couple of gaskets in and some modern fuel sealer. You'll eventually get it stopped. The throttle pivot wears loose in the body and you have to find some way of sleeving the two sides. 1935 guts work much much better and with a vacuum gauge you can actually get a peak at about 15 psi. The engines weren't great so you still get a bit of flutter caused,I suspect, by the valves but what the hell it's 82 years old!!! They're a pig on gas but but can use low test 80/87 10% alcohol with impunity with no problems what's so ever. Hardened valve seats and all that. Been there,done that.     

 

I've got 3 of the early carburetors, each very slightly different when closely examined. One on my car (the one the car came to me with 42 years ago) and two on the shelf. The ones on the shelf have warpage issues with the castings, one so bad that it is unlikely that any amount of sanding and multiple gaskets will help it. So concur with all that about issues with the early carbs.  I have some uneven idle issues that I've never been able to sort out but don't really affect drivability.

 

As to being "a pig on gas", I am not so sure. I get between 14 and 20 MPG depending on how I drive it. Long distances at 60 MPH is pretty close to 14. Pushing a car with fairly large frontal area and the aerodynamics of a barn down the road that fast with 70 BHP is not going to be efficient. But back roads at 35 to 45 MPH gets me pretty good fuel economy.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

I get 40 to 50 miles to the gallon out of my daily drivers today so the '33 went through gas like I owned SHELL. I looked for several years before finding a good one amonst about a hundred  on a trailer at Dunkirk N.Y. Like you I have several and the best of the lot went on the car. The car was so good it makes you wonder why with all the other high tech things they had included why they didn't spend a couple of $ and put on a better carb? By 1935 they had. And they would just get better. I suppose in the day you just went to the dealer and one day in 1935 he said "You know for $4 I can put on a better later carb and cure a lot of your leaks both air and fuel." And I suspect that's why so many of these '33s had later carbs on them.