Oil drip 49 Windsor

[WindsorRon]

I have a small drip in my 1949 Windsor.  I have not been able to identify this part from my shop manual or part catalog.  What is this part and what would the best place to look for the cause of a drip in this area.  Thanks for any suggestion.

[Rusty_OToole]

Is that a closeup of a starter? Might be easier to tell if you backed off a bit and gave us some context, and allowed us to see the whole object.

[WindsorRon]

Sorry, the picture was taken from underneath behind the drivers-side wheel.  This part sits just behind the oil pan.  I was thinking it was the FluidDrive housing.  I'll snap another picture , if necessary.

[c49er]

Leak at Fluid Drive lower bell housing cast cover pan.

Either engine oil from rear main seal or the FD leaking at the "bellows Seal" and Graphite Ring.

[WindsorRon]

Thank you.

[Ron42Dodge]

With the color of the oil drip it appears to be motor oil and the rear main seal is where the front of the fluid drive bolts up to the back of the engine.  

 

But if it were the fluid drive, depending on what is in there for fluid in the fluid drive would determine the color of a leak would be there.  I have Dextron III in mine so if my fluid drive was leaking it would be red oil.

 

The oil looks really clean.  Did you recently change it?  Use any different oil like synthetic this time?  

 

Could your oil filter housing be dripping onto the engine and fining its way down?

[WindsorRon]

I just added a quart.   I use SAE 30 wt in the engine and SAE 10 wt in the fluid drive - non synthetic, non detergent.  The fact that I was down a quart probably is a good indication of what's leaking.  In any case, it sounds like I'll have to live with this drip rather than pulling the engine apart.

[Guest stagger]

_Hi

_{i have the same problem with my Windsor -50 (semi automatic) and mine is not shifting up as it should, so ill guess it has something to do with the Turbine/Torque Converter.}

_{Have you resolved this problem or is it still leaking?}

 

_{regards // Peter}
 

[WindsorRon]

I doubt that I will attempt to stop the drip.  I use a turkey roasting pan filled with cat litter to catch the drip and I can scoop it out every 2-3 months.  I don't have any problem with the shift although reverse will grind.  If I need to start in reverse, I shift before I start the car.  Sorry, I' not much help.

[Ron42Dodge]

Stagger.  I don't have a lot of experience with the Chrysler shifting however the shifting operation is independent of the fluid drive unit. I found a previous conversation on these years Chysler transmisions titled

 

"1950 Chrysler Windsor transmission problems"

 

De Soto Frank posted 

"Chrysler semi-automatics are NOT automatic trannies, and ATF should never be used in them !!! (They are semi-self-shifting manual transmissions.)

ATF in the transmission itself will probably not do much harm, but ATF in the Fluid coupling can destroy the seal.

Chrysler semi-automatics (M-4 Simplimatic(vacuum operated), M-5 and M-6 (Hydraulically operated) use SAE-#10 or 10W motor oil in the transmission, and "MoPar Fluid Drive Fluid" in the Fluid Coupling.

A safe alternative to MoPar Fluid Drive Fluid has been identified as an ISO-132 Tractor Hydraulic Fluid, available at some Sam's Clubs, and Tractor Supply Company, among other places.

If you're only topping-up the Fluid Coupling, SAE-10 motor oil is acceptable.

Th Chrysler semi-auto is a beast unto itself, mosty likely born out of Chrysler's unwillingness to pay GM for its Hydramatic technology.

As to the harsh shifting, if the correct fluids are being used everywhere, and the idle speed is set correctly (no more than 450 rpm), I would look for a problem in the electrical controls (possibly sticking governor points) or internal problems in the transmission...

Another possiblility might be if ATF is in the transmission, when it gets warm, it might be losing enough viscosity to cause a drop in oil pressure, requiring you to get the vehicle's speed up higher to create enough pressure for up-shift...

A factory shop manual will have excellent trouble-shooting proceedure on this, reprints are available from a number of Chrysler parts vendors; also there is info in the Imperialist web-site, in the form of factory service bulletins.

Good luck... "

 

I know enough to be dangerous

 

The important thing (I think) is whether you have a M-4, Vacuum advanced or M-5 or M-6 Hydraullic advanced transmission.  The Vacuum advanced ones had a rubber bladder that could tear or leak with age.  I believe if you have this problem you can burn valves if not addressed.

 

The hydraullic advancing trannys could be just the proper fluid.  I could be wrong but for some reason I was thinking the enging and tranny could have shared the same oil during a certain years production.

 

I would try and determine which transmission you have and search posts on that.

 

I'm not sure about the ATF in the fluid coupling  comment as I have had Dextron III in my fluid coupling for 15 years but I could not find any information at the time and went by what one experienced guy told me..

 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge will see my mention of the M-4, M-5 and M-6 trannys and correct everything I said.

[Rusty_OToole]

Engine and trans did share oil supply but only for about a year, 1953 I think, right before they changed to Powerflite transmission which was a totally different transmission.

 

Vacuum operated trans only lasted a year or 2, around 1941. Then the hydraulically operated model came out, and they used that for the next 10 years.

 

Fluid Drive was separate from the trans, and was used with a manual 3 speed trans on cheaper models with the self shifter being an option, or standard equipment on more expensive models.

 

I don't believe Chrysler engineers ever considered the GM Hydramatic trans, or they considered it and rejected it as being too complicated and prone to breaking down.

 

The M6 self shifting trans was a simple, rugged, and trouble free answer to the automatic trans question and from the standpoint of simplicity and reliability, probably the best of the early efforts.

 

Its main fault was that it did not do away with the clutch pedal. I don't know why they never used a vacuum clutch, they actually had a vacuum clutch in 1931 but never used it with Fluid Drive.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)