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To Buy or Not To Buy? 65' Riviera


Guest jferry229

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Guest jferry229

This question has been continuously haunting me throughout my search for a 65' Rivi. Do I buy a completed car? A project car? somewhere in between?

The current demon is a 1965 Riviera for $6k. The car is approimately 500 miles from me so I haven't seen it in person (yet)..

PROS:

-Has matching #'s 445 Wildcat engine that starts and runs (how well?)

-All Parts are present and included with purchase

-Has 50k miles or so (claimed to be original)

-Original Interior Upholestry (needs some work)

CONS:

-The car is currently in pieces- bumpers, emblems, trim, door panels, head lights, etc. Apparently it was getting prepped for paint- currently sanded and primed.

-RUST -- From what I've seen, the driver's side floor pan is rusted out. Doesn't look that bad from photos but I'm not sure of the extent or what else may be rusted, frame?. I'm waiting for more photos of the under carraige and naked floor panels. Says "no leaks", "no bondo", "only other rust spot was behind the rear wind shield- cut out and replaced with new sheet metal."

-Needs head liner

-Rear wind shield needs installment

-Needs weather stripping (included)

-AC not working

-Radio not working

-Needs carpet

I have a mechanic that specializes in Buicks but he's a half-empty kind of guy and has told me not to buy any car I've ever mentioned. If it's completed- "the engine is probably junk, don't buy it". If it's not completed- "it's going to cost too much money, don't buy it".

I need other's opinions! To buy or not to buy that is the question.

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You do not say how old you are or what your experience level is in terms of working on old cars, but I would say buy a completed car if you have the resources.  You can enjoy a completed car immediately where a project will take months if not years to complete and lots of money.  There is also the chance you will lose interest in a project part way through and give up most of your investment just to get rid of the thing.

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Guest Rp1967

Ask yourself , am I at a point in my life where I have several hours of free time every day .

If not , buy a completed car.

I speak from my own experience and watching my father.

I restored a 65 GTO when I was young and had no responsibilitys.

My youngest is now 20 and in college and I can see the time where I can do this again soon.

Same with father he was a car nut all his life but didn't have the time until us kids were raised then he restored a 29 Hudson a 35 Chevy coupe and a Henderson KJ

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Who's car is it going to be yours or the "mechanic's ? Old cars are like a marriage the courting,ceremony,honeymoon and then the living together year after year partners for life. You'll get out of your relationship with your old car what you put into it. If you have skills few are good,many are better. This should guide you in what your looking at and what level of need the car has. Try not to be overly optimistic or pessimistic with the car or project you are looking at. If possible contact a BCA member near you or in the area where the car is and have them go with you or meet you there and assess the car together. Most members are willing to do this. Try to be era specific as a pre-war guy won't fully understand a '65 Riviera as well as one who has 60's Buick's experience. In the end it's your money and your decision so be happy with what you buy and buy what you can honestly afford. I've been at this old car hobby for more years than I care to mention and this are just my two cents worth.  

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Guest jferry229

Wow, a lot of great responses and FAST! Thanks, I really appreciate it.

Just to fill you in a little more on my situation-

I'm a 30 year fella with moderate wrenching experience and basic car knowledge (wish I could say more). I work three days a week and have a fair monthly allowance for fun. I currently own two vehicles- 2003 Expedition (Daily Driver) and a 2010 SRT8 Challenger. Ya see, I never drive the Challenger and was looking to sell it or trade it for a classic car. It's valued at approximately $34k, which means I'd probably be able to get $30-32k for it, private party of course. I've never owned a classic car and can honestly say - I don't know what it means to rebuild or maintain one of these things.

This $30k surely helps my budget for an old classic or restoration. I can buy a $5k car, for example, and have $25k to play with. Or I can buy (or trade) a car of similar value and have a completed driver. Or somewhere in between. I've been focused on the Riviera because it seems like a good deal.. Is it not? Plus Rivieras are beautiful cars and hard to find.

Mark, I totally agree with you- "who's car is it going to be?" But given my limit knowledge on these cars I have to lean on folks with experience, I think.

I know the obvious answer is "Do what's best for you".. and I will. But being new to the classic car world I'm trying to get as much advice as possible. The more information the better decision (usually). This is why I TRULY appreciate all of the input!

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Guest Skyking

If you can do most all the work yourself, I'd say maybe go for it.  The maybe being like others have stated about finishing the project, sometimes that doesn't happen and the cost of materials have skyrocketed.  If you have to rely on machanics and bodyshops I would say to buy one that is restored already.  The money you would have to pay someone else will cost way more than a finished one.

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Do not buy. Buy a complete, running car for 2-3 times as much money. You'll be able to start having fun right away and it will cost less in the long run. Early Rivs are nice cars but there are many of them out there that are complete, running, driving cars that you can enjoy and fix up a little at a time, and they aren't that much more expensive.

 

There is absolutely no upside to buying a $6000 Riviera project unless you like solving jigsaw puzzles while using burning $100 bills as shop lights. You'll spend $30,000+ restoring a $15-20,000 car and it'll be years before you can enjoy it.

 

Use your budget to buy the nicest one you can find and then fix the little stuff that they all inevitably need, and then you'll have one of the best for less money.

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Guest jferry229

Who's car is it going to be yours or the "mechanic's ? Old cars are like a marriage the courting,ceremony,honeymoon and then the living together year after year partners for life. You'll get out of your relationship with your old car what you put into it. If you have skills few are good,many are better. This should guide you in what your looking at and what level of need the car has. Try not to be overly optimistic or pessimistic with the car or project you are looking at. If possible contact a BCA member near you or in the area where the car is and have them go with you or meet you there and assess the car together. Most members are willing to do this. Try to be era specific as a pre-war guy won't fully understand a '65 Riviera as well as one who has 60's Buick's experience. In the end it's your money and your decision so be happy with what you buy and buy what you can honestly afford. I've been at this old car hobby for more years than I care to mention and this are just my two cents worth.

Hey Mark- How do I go about contacting a BCA member to help take a look at the car?? That seems like a great resource! Do I simply make another post asking for help? Sorry, I'm new to this whole forum/message board deal.

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Having gone down both roads myself and seeing others do so also I would say opt for a better car complete, and running. I agree with Matt Harwood's comment 100%. When you spend money on a complete running car you can see a positive improvement on the vehicle. The car you describe can consume thousands of dollars before you notice any improvement.

 

You are hoping that all of the parts needed are there 

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Do not buy. Buy a complete, running car for 2-3 times as much money. ...

 

Matt's advice here is excellent.  If you have the money

you should get a car already in excellent condition, needing

little if anything.  It might not be perfect, but it will be a car

you can enjoy and take to shows, sharing the experience

with your friends and family.

 

There are many, many other types of cars than the '65 Riviera.

Rivieras are in good demand and will sell for more than

many similar models.  So get a good price guide, take your time,

and enjoy the search for the car that strikes a chord with you,

Riviera or otherwise!

 

Jferry, will this be your first antique car?

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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I would suggest contacting the Riviera Owners Association. They are listed on these forums under Buick. I am a member and if I can help, send me a PM oldgoat@paxtonwarehouse.com. I have owned several Rivieras in the past. Coalter

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There was pretty nice Riviera on the Hamb not long ago for low teens I believe that looked good for the money.  I would go after something like that.  Something needing small projects.  Replace some chrome,  do a little interior work, wrench under the hood a bit.  All stuff that doesn't have to be done right now but that can be done as you get the time.

Pretty much what Matt said. 

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-Needs carpet

I have a mechanic that specializes in Buicks but he's a half-empty kind of guy and has told me not to buy any car I've ever mentioned. If it's completed- "the engine is probably junk, don't buy it". If it's not completed- "it's going to cost too much money, don't buy it".

I need other's opinions! To buy or not to buy that is the question.

 

 "I have a mechanic" those are the key words. Look through this forum and read all the posts that include "my mechanic". If that doesn't convince you to change your hobby to collecting Rolex watches on Craigslist you missed something; read them again.

Bernie

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Remember that 445 is not the cubic inch displacement of the engine - it is a 401.  The 445 is the gross torque output - I guess it was the biggest number Buick could come up with at the time.   There was an optional 425 but I think that has Super Wildcat on the air cleaner - maybe? 

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Guest Rp1967

By 1965 the 425 was standard and the 401 was out of the picture.

But you are correct , the number on the air cleaner was torque output.

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Guest Rp1967

Learn something new every day.

Thought that once they bypassed the 401 for 64 it was gone.

Helped my brother pull a 425 out of a 1965 in a junk yard circa 1982

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Guest LuxDriver

On the Rivs.. I always liked 63/64. If I'm not mistaken ( I'm sure you'll tell me! ) Only the ' 63 offered leather, the 64, 65 vinyl n fabric choices only. Stylistically I personally prefer 64.. Like the script on trunk, the hubcaps, some interior cues too.. except the no option leather mistake by GM. Then I like best all silver in and out 63 w leather, fully optioned. '65 is more modern and stylized yet sporty. I understand it's appeal too.

They love to rot around rear window, in trunk because of leaks and sponge-like trunk liner, around rear wheels and lower quarters. If you're going to fix and do, get one with great orig colors, and options, and surely solid/straight as you can find. An example Worth fixing to save a fine version of this handsome model. Otherwise buy as nice original as your wallet allows.

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Re-read you post an then listen to your "Half empty" mechanic along with the advice given on this Forum

with lifetimes of experience. Then join AACA and read our Antique Automobile magazine and attend some

AACA events to get enough knowledge to buy the car you'll enjoy more than the people you have to hire to

make it nice.

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I've always liked the 65 Riv, thought that was how it should have look from the beginning but Buick was in a three year cycle then and let the "ugley stylist" loose for the first two so they could have sales the third.

Almost bought one when I came back from SEA but ordered a '70 four speed Skylark GS with AC instead (ps if the AC does not work, knock a grand off the price - that is what it will probably cost).

Must admit I'd only be interested in the GS model, I like lotsa carbs. Also first year for the THM-400 tranny which is a big plus.

Be aware that a lot of what you are accustomed to in the SRT just did not exist back then (did put a head unit with bluetooth and hands free in the glove compartment of the Judge, all other cars it was easier).

And you will pay more over time for a project than for a completed car, and mss out on the fun. Just get a nice one.

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Well, unless like some here you enjoy the work and the challenge of restoring a car. There is much to be said for instant gratification but there is also something to be said for enjoying the trip. Do you want to be proud that you could afford to buy a done car or do you want to be proud that you brought a derelict car back to life. "Worth" is not always about the money.

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Well, unless like some here you enjoy the work and the challenge of restoring a car. There is much to be said for instant gratification but there is also something to be said for enjoying the trip. Do you want to be proud that you could afford to buy a done car or do you want to be proud that you brought a derelict car back to life. "Worth" is not always about the money.

 

As a hobbyist, I would agree 100%.

 

However, experience shows me that there isn't a single old car collector who doesn't try to sell his car and make a few bucks. Not one guy walks into my showroom willing to lose money on an old car he's bought and/or restored. Nobody goes into a project really knowing--I mean just sure of it--that they'll lose money. They're always optimistic that the market will catch up to them or someone else will really fall in love and over-pay at some unknown point in the future. It's the exact definition of insanity, because we keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I turn away 2-3 cars a week because there are sellers with unrealistic views of market value, or they figure, "Well, I have $95,000 in my Model A roadster, so that's obviously what it's worth and that's what I need to get out of it." Sorry, bro, it just doesn't work that way.

 

So yes, if you love the journey at least as much as the destination, then a project is a great opportunity for fun and honing your skills. I personally am upside-down on every single one of my personal cars because I love the process. But as someone who turns old cars into money for a living, I'm telling you that if you don't want to lose A LOT of money and just want to lose a little money, buy the nicest finished car you can find and start having fun immediately. If you choose the project route, understand that you're paying for the fun of the journey, like a vacation, and that's cash you won't get back later. Do it with your eyes open, that's all.

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I have a 1963 and a 1965 among my trove of cars, each has something different to offer. I see no problem with the standard option car. I have driven GS cars and really find little difference between them and the standard option cars. I have seldom gone looking for a car, they seem to find me, but once I have them I usually keep them for a very long time. For me condition is the overwhelming factor that I am looking for, that can be overridden by rarity or some intangible that just draws me to a particular car. My cars don't have to be perfect but they have to be good cars. My days of complete restorations are behind me.

I really love the 1963-65 Rivieras, but there are plenty of them around, and you can afford to be picky when choosing one. Out of about 110K produced during the three years there must be a survival rate of close to 15%. Unless this car is something that you just have to save, or you have become attached to it, I would look elsewhere. Only you can decide how much project you are willing to take on. If you choose to keep looking, unless you can verify a car's history, I would try to find a good west coast car, not just California car either, but as solid a car as you can get. I am afraid that the car that you are looking at might not be the best choice.

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Guest Skyking

If you can do 95% of the labor and the results are exceptional, you'll never lose money!  I've sold three cars of mine and made a very good profit.

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Guest AlCapone

Buy one already completed! You get to enjoy it immediately and you don't chase it with a basket full of money. Unless you can do the work yourself, a basket case buy is a fools game! Wayne

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I have never heard anyone say that the '63 Riviera was done by "ugly stylists".  The car won awards for its beautiful styling when it was new.  It is also a milestone car. The headlights were intended to be hidden like the '65's but there were problems with the mechanisms and it was not incorporated until 1965.  I like the all the 63 to 65 Rivs very much.  I prefer the rear end styling of the 63 & 64 over the 65 rear end, but the 65 style is very nice as well.

Edited by michel88 (see edit history)
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You have probably read that the original car that

became the '63-'65 Riviera was at first intended

for Cadillac, and it even had a LaSalle nameplate

as it was being developed.

 

The narrow "grilles" at each side of the front end

(which covered the headlights in 1965) were

supposed to emulate LaSalle's characteristic narrow grille.

 

I'm not as much a fan of the inboard headlights on the

1963-64 models, but no car is perfect, and I bet they would

be a lot of fun to drive!

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Guest 1arunem

You can also try the v8buick website for info and classifieds.

 

I had a very nice 65 that I sold about two or three years ago. It was a wonderful driving car. Very comfortable and a joy to drive. 

 

$6000 for a car in pieces sure sounds high to me.

 

Good luck in your search!

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