THE OVERDRIVE MOD BEGINS

[Jim Nelson]

You can buy a new 6v or 12v light that looked like the original and puts out more light that way it's stock looking and no mods necessary they are very inexpensive.  I chose that way.  32w / 50w power if you got new wiring, it's a winner.  I think I paid about $6.00 each.  

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Jim, the amount of light the bulb puts out is about 25% of the reason the headlight BEAMS are whatever they are. The major factor that determines the amount of light that shines in front of the car is the reflector. If the reflector is not doing its job it won't matter how bright the bulb is. It will look bright if you stare at the headlights but it will shine very little light on the road in front of the car. These cars always needed the reflectors cleaned and the owners manual included with each new car points out how to do this. If you look at an ORIGINAL bulb you will notice that the bulb itself has a coating to block light from going forward. The object is to make as much light as possible go to the reflector which will then reflect it a s a BEAM out the headlight lens. Even the headlight lens which has a different one for each side are made to throw a beam a certain way. There is a lot more going on in the headlights than we tend to realize in my opinion.

[mcdarrunt]

You're sure right about installing a/c in old rides. In Texas that's not even considered a modification. I really like days one can use the 4-40 cooling system but it only happens a short time in the spring and fall. My 37 is midnight blue (almost black) so the a/c gets used often on sunny days in January.

[Jim Nelson]

Yup,  it's the reason I bought this car.  So many were BLACK.  That is a no-no here in Florida.  Of course, my son in law (who is Italian- ??) has a Black truck.   I just bought a second coupe.  A deal I almost could not pass.  Emptied the savings account (mine

) and got a 1037 coupe.  It is painted (original color)  Sudan Blue.  It is a medium blue that say has t tinge if green in it but wants to argue.  It is a restored to like new.  Very nice.  Wife still does not ride in my 38.  Oh well, it's my toy.

[Jim Nelson]

Just came back from Lloyd Young's place.  I was doing my long trip PM and changed the oil in the tranny.  Found some fuzz on my magnet that I put in the drain plug.  It was 100 % rebuilt so some breaking will leave some wear in fuzz.  Pretty descent.  I then drained the OD gear box.  The oil was fairly dark.  When I got ready to refill the OD,  I found some bearing cage part with my finger.  Just checking before I refilled.  Stuck my magnet on a stick and found more cage parts.  I pulled the OD and decided to drive it to him.. I called him to discuss the findings.  He said bring it and would fix it.  (1076 miles one way).  When we opened it he found the rear most bearing had failed.  He was amazed as that bearing does not fail in his history.  The second bearing he installs behind has sometimes failed.  Later gearboxes have the second bearing.  Mine had it.  Anyway, he rebuilt the box completely with new input shaft (with the sprocket) and since I brought my drive shaft (with the other sprocket) he replaced ithe sprocket on that also.  All done in about 4 hours with zero cost to me.  He stands by his warrantee.  I'm a believer now.  On my way back home deviating to my club get together in Wilmington Va to see some old friends.  Then 625 more miles and home again to fix my ole girl and get it back on the road. Whew......

 

 

 

 

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

JIM, the overdrives are known for reliability. Rarely do they ever fail mechanically. Their failures usually are electrical and that is fairly common. Glad to hear yours is fixed.

[Jim Nelson]

How big a box did you have to make to ship yours to Lloyd?  Cost.  My wife was mumbling about my trip and I said I would rather be there and see first hand what had happ4ned.  I took more pix.  Lloyd remembers my multi pix on the first trip.  

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

I had about three hundred and fifty bucks in everything as far as shipping goes for both ways. I bought the crate to the shipping company and picked it up from them. 

[Jim Nelson]

I had Lloyd go over the OD.  Found a bearing failure where he has never had fail.  An original place not the additional out put bearing the factory had.  Lloyd had added a second out put bearing which the factory later also did.  He completely rebuilt the OD box and put new sprockets on the drive shaft and on the input shaft.  Like new and no cost.  He garuntees his units and I'm a firm believer in his word.

[bobj49f2]

I know this is an old post but I just got an OD for a '38 Special.   Before seeing in it person I thought it was a Lloyd Young unit.  From reading one of the posts in this thread it sounds like it could be, it had the chain hook up in the front but there's part behind the OD unit that isn't in the pictures posted.  There are four gussets and an extra section behind the OD unit.  Another thing, the original poster said Lloyd told him the torque tube being modified had to be out the car it was taken out of, some cars had different length torque tubes.  I putting his unit in a '37 Special.  I do have '38 axles out of a car I parts out recently.  I feel I got a good deal on the unit, I traded a '37 Roadmaster chassis and engine for it.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by bobj49f2 (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I don't know for sure if that is Lloyd young or not, but it is a Borg Warner OD spliced into a torque tube. That's what Lloyd did, so it is a good guess it might be one of his.

 

The torque tube does need to be the correct length for obvious reasons. That overdrive case looks like it was made to connect to a torque tube at the back. It is probably Nash or AMC.

 

If he had to get by with a more common case for some of them, it would look different.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Jim Nelson]

Hi Bob,   It looks like Lloyds work.   It has been cut and put together and you can see the sprocket that is welded to the shortened drive shaft.    That drive shaft needs to be cut to the original drive shaft dimension  Did you get the chain coupling chain ?     Its a double link chain.    I think Lloyd used a #40 coupling chain.   I have two of his OD's.      My first is on my  38-46s coupe.  love it and done long trips.    My second in in my 35-58 Buick.    With Lloyd gone,  Glen is doing them using stock from Lloyds stuff.    I think he is doing a better job of welding parts on.   Plus,  Lloyd used the old bearings if they seemed ok by Lloyd.   I owned a bearings shop for 18 years so I'm picky about good bearings.   Today,  Glen uses much better bearings and 'new' ones.   Glen was doing Lloyds mods for Loyd.   So  Glen knows what and how.    I noticed the governor opening that needs to be closed off.   Plus there is a sequence to keeping the OD filled.   It must be lubricated with GL - #1.   Do not use modern  GL#5.   the synchro's can not tolerate the more slippery lub.   This goes for the synthetic lub.    Rear and tranny will be fine with GL#5.    What a difference driving with the OD.    Again, check the length from the face of the pumpkin to the flange / drive shaft.   If its to long,  Send it to Glen with the corrected length and your god.   My recommendation now that you have it apart is to check the  pinion bearing now.   Check your SM and they will tell you that the MAX  clearance for the rear bearing is 0.0015".    That is quite tight.   Next, if that bearing is over the mac clearance,  the front double row ball bearing will be beyond limits.    Been there, done that.   If you don't fix it now and you have a noisy rear,  its take it apart and do it then.   Next,  I can guarantee the axel out board roller bearings have never been lubed since the factory did it.   Now is the time to replace those bearings and seals.   Now beats the hassle of replacing it later.     Now is the time....   Glen is  614-571-4908 still in circleville Ohio.

[Jim Nelson]

I was looking closely at the axel bearings and they might  be needing replacing.   Either its just grease and dirt or those races are not acceptable.    Those inner races are fairly easily replaceable and with new outer rollers and inner and outer seals,  your good.    I've done several rear ends and these are parts that when replaced will give you  + 75000 and more QUIET operation miles.   I really don't like doing a job twice when I'm already there.   

[bobj49f2]

I didn't get any email notices that there were responses to my post and was surprised today when I decided to check in and see if they were any responses.  Thanks to all.

 

Interesting information and suggestions.  I did have a local guy who is know to have set up a few rear axles in his day take a quick look at it the other night.  The first thing he noticed is the gear lash, he felt just by moving the ring gear by hand it was a bit loose.  He gave me a pretty good lesson in adjust gear lash.  Very interesting, always hear guys talking about it but never really knew what they were talking about and how to properly set it.  I haven't gotten a chance to compare lengths of the OD set up and the tube in my '37 Special.  I was told the OD unit is out of a '38 Special.  Fortunately I parts out a '38 Special a couple of months ago and kept the axles in the hope I would be able to find a set of Century gears to install in it.  I then fell into the the OD unit.  

 

Jim, thanks for the information on Glen, Circleville Ohio is about 500 miles from my home in SE Wisconsin and wouldn't be that bad of a drive to take it to him personally if I needed his help, I've driven farther in pursuit of car parts.  Also, thanks for the suggestions for lube, I  haven't tried to find what is needed so you saved me a lot of time.

 

This unit does have the roller chain coupling.  What really impressed me about this is the machine work on the coupling housing.  I've been around machined and this has to be one of the best pieces of work I've seen.  It is absolutely perfect.  I have a governor from another OD I bought a while back that fits the whole, don't know if it's the correct one.  I have another friend that built OD units for Model As that said he omits the governors in the units he runs on his car.  I'm fortunate I know a few local guys who know quite a bit about older cars and will help me out getting this unit set up and installed.

[bobj49f2]

Just an update.  After I got the overdrive I took it with me to a local gearhead gathering, basically a local guy's shop where guys gather on a Tuesday to drink beer, eat junk food and BS about what they did with their cars.  There is one guy, Doug, who knows a bit about differential set ups. I talked to the guy and he gave me a 30 minute course on how to adjust the lash on the gears in differential, very interesting conversation.  I showed him the OD unit and just with a casual look and movement of the gears he thought the gears were pretty loose.  

 

Now today, I wanted to install the OD in my '37 but before doing that I wanted to make sure it was properly adjusted and called Doug and he was kind enough to come to my shop and take a better look at the OD.  He brought with him an indicator meter and some specialty tools.  He checked the lash and it was way off and tried to adjust it but one bearing cap wouldn't turn very easy so we pulled the bearing out and inspected and cleaned it up.  We did both, one at a time.  The bearings looked pretty good and once they were cleaned and reinstalled the adjustment went easier and he got the gear lash within tolerance.  He spent a little more than an hour at my shop and did it all for no charge.  Hopefully I can install the OD tomorrow.  

[Jim Nelson]

When you get it operating and using it,  you'd be amazed how nice your driving will be.   The engine speeds will be sweet.   I get 2350 at 65 mph with the 4.44 stock rear.    I bought a speedometer gear adapter to make the speedometer accurate on the road.   Around town I follow traffic to keep the 'cop's' at bay.   Then again, having a GPS will give you accurate speed's.    Isn't this fun ?   So much to learn but not enough time for all of it.  

[bobj49f2]

I got the OD in the '37 Sunday night.  It was a one man job to pull the old drive line out but it helped to have help to install the "new" drive line.  I'm having some medical problem with my neck and arm which hinders my ability to do somethings like installing a very heavy drive line into a car.  Fortunately my wife was able to offer a little help.  She recently broke most of her ribs on one side so she also limited in what she can do but together we got it in.  I just wanted to get as much done to the car before I went under the knife next week.  

 

 

[Jim Nelson]

When you get it operating and using it,  you'd be amazed how nice your driving will be.   The engine speeds will be sweet.   I get 2350 at 65 mph with the 4.44 stock rear.    I bought a speedometer gear adapter to make the speedometer accurate on the road.   Around town I follow traffic to keep the 'cop's' at bay.   Then again, having a GPS will give you accurate speed's.    Isn't this fun ?   So much to learn but not enough time for all of it.  

[Jim Nelson]

Looking nice.   I forgot to check the positions of the emergency cable run.   So I had to 'adjust'  to get it right.  😀.  

[bobj49f2]

4 hours ago, Jim Nelson said:

Looking nice.   I forgot to check the positions of the emergency cable run.   So I had to 'adjust'  to get it right.  😀.  

Yeah, I have a lot to adjust.  For some reason the two of the bolts that fasten the end of the torque tube got stubborn and wouldn't go in all of the way.  I had the car on the at the time and have a severe neck and arm problem that hindered my ability to move and lift things.  Once I get the car on my lift I'll run a tap through the threaded holes and get the two remaining bolts tightened up.  I also have to rerun the brake line from the hose to the rear brakes.  The original '37 drive line is very different than the '38 drive line with the OD installed.  I never had the e-brake cable hooked up, just had the cable from one wheel to the other wheel.  

[Jim Nelson]

I modified Lloyd' s schematic to make it simpler.   No more than two wires to a connection.  .    I also made a remote 'activation button.    This way I can turn on the OD with out looking for the 'on' button.   I made a custom angle bracket to mount the button just below the gear shift knob.    With my hand on the gear shift knob, and running about 30 to 35 mph,  I let up on the gas, push the button and the OD trip's on.   Where I drive, keeping my eyes on the traffic is VERY important.   Lots of tourists wandering on my roads 'lost' most of the time.   So, that is why I made the remote button.  

[Jim Nelson]

Remember, when you have the OD. engaged, the drive line is free wheeling.   So when stopping - to park,  make sure the OD is in  locked position -  so you can back up.    This way the OD is really 'off' .     I'm sure they told you that.    Several times after backing up, I forgot to push the cable back in and I  mumbled why I stopped and pushed it back in so my OD would function.  Duh ! ,  I think I may have old timers' disease.... pictures and schematic ready if you would like.   oldbuickjim@gmail.com