Marty Roth Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Tom, I will post pictures when I get the assembly back from Lloyd. The best I can explain it is that Lloyd makes a casting he adds to the torque tube. The casting halves bolt together to make the torque tube one piece. When the halves are not bolted together the torque tube becomes a two piece and can be disconnected at the overdrive unit and removed. The actual driveshaft is also a two piece that can be split by the removal of a four row chain with a master link. Once the torque tube and driveshaft are out of the way the trans can be removed for a clutch replacement or whatever. The rear end never gets touched. Lloyd has done hundreds of these over the last 40 years. Yes Dave, Thanks for improving my simplified and incomplete description. The bottom line is that you can remove the tranny and clutch without removing the rear end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 According to the freight company the crate will arrive here in Las Vegas either Friday or Monday. i think tomorrow will be a good day to start replacing my brake shoes so that the backing plate assemblies will be done and ready to bolt back on to the rear end housing. I'm thinking that by the end of next week the underneath of the car might be finished. I have no idea yet about the electrics or the overdrive cable installation. Lloyd told me to call him as questions arise, he is very helpful. We take guys like Lloyd for granted but most of us are getting old and those with special skills like Lloyd are getting harder and harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Today the overdrive arrived. I have it out of the crate now and maybe tomorrow afternoon I will start to install it. Its supposed to rain here so since I work outside I may have to wait. In any case its getting closer. Here is a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thank you, Dave. I would like to be there helping. I did a gear change on mine, from a 4.11 to a 3.36. While it did what I wanted by reducing the hi gear engine rpm by about 650 , it did rob the car oh its low speed hi gear performance. Yours will maintain that. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Dave, Can you post some closer pics of the unit itself and also how it is mated to the torque tube and to the rear end? How's Lloyd doing? Thx Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 If I start to do the installation this afternoon I will take a few more pictures. Lloyd seems to be doing fine. Hopefully I'll have more to say tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenz38 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Thats my next big dream too,I'm jaelous of you....I'm courious about your experienses with it.If i win in the lottery (but im not playin then i send my tube also to lloyd. Edited August 25, 2015 by jenz38 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'm still planning on starting the installation in a few hours, weather permitting. I just took these pictures for those that are interested in a little closer look at the overdrive as it is bolted to the torque tube. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Make sure your free-wheeling cable moves the lever through the entire range of travel. If it doesn't go from stop to stop, you'll either hear grinding or you won't have reverse. Make sure your cable has a full range of travel from the IN position to the OUT position. Mine didn't fully disengage and I didn't have reverse the first time I drove it--kind of alarming. Also, keep the solenoid away from heat. Mine was pretty close to my exhaust, so I added some shielding and some heat wrap around the exhaust pipe itself, which helped a bit. A brand new solenoid helped, too, but they're pricey ($250). Make sure you use the right kind of gear oil in it--the overdrives are very sensitive to the proper kind of fluid. I think it's GL1, non-synthetic. There are bronze parts in the overdrive and they won't like hypoid gear oil or anything more than GL1. It's available from NAPA and isn't very expensive. I jack up my car on one side when I fill it to add a few extra ounces because mine leaks--a lot. If you get stuck on wiring or anything like that, or general operation (which can be confusing at first), let me know, I'm happy to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Make sure your free-wheeling cable moves the lever through the entire range of travel. If it doesn't go from stop to stop, you'll either hear grinding or you won't have reverse. Make sure your cable has a full range of travel from the IN position to the OUT position. Mine didn't fully disengage and I didn't have reverse the first time I drove it--kind of alarming. Also, keep the solenoid away from heat. Mine was pretty close to my exhaust, so I added some shielding and some heat wrap around the exhaust pipe itself, which helped a bit. A brand new solenoid helped, too, but they're pricey ($250). Make sure you use the right kind of gear oil in it--the overdrives are very sensitive to the proper kind of fluid. I think it's GL1, non-synthetic. There are bronze parts in the overdrive and they won't like hypoid gear oil or anything more than GL1. It's available from NAPA and isn't very expensive. I jack up my car on one side when I fill it to add a few extra ounces because mine leaks--a lot. If you get stuck on wiring or anything like that, or general operation (which can be confusing at first), let me know, I'm happy to help! Edited August 26, 2015 by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I have GL 4 hypoid gear oil which is made to not hurt bronze or brass. The hypoid just withstands more extreme pressure and Lloyd said to use it in the overdrive unit as well as the rear end. I am glad to know that a new solenoid is available if needed even if it is expensive. Mine is far from the exhaust so maybe no problem. I worked with another friend for about three hours and now the overdrive and torque tube and rear end with the suspension is back in the car. It was easier and quicker than taking it out. The backing plates and new brakes and the axles and wheels still have to be installed. After all that is done I will start on the wiring and cable installation. So far I'm extremely happy with how everything is going. I hope to get some more time tomorrow to keep moving forward but at least a big part is already done and it went very smooth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 One of the problems with this project is it requires building a crate that is strong enough to protect the torque tube and ring and pinion that can be sent to Lloyd Young in Ohio. It also has to serve as the crate for Lloyd to send back the completed overdrive unit to the original sender. I had one built by a shipping company at a cost of 300 dollars. Quite pricey but I needed a good one and I don't have any wood working tools at all. If someone needs this crate for their assembly I would like to get back 75 dollars for the one I had made. I can ship it empty to them for cost from Las Vegas. If no one wants it I will bring it to the industrial yard of my former employer and they will find a use for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Today the Buick moved another step closer to being on the road again. The wheel bearings were greased and the axles along with new seals are now in the car, The rear end has the cover on it with a new gasket and is ready for oil. New brake linings were installed and the brakes were adjusted as per the shop manual. The wheels are back on the car. I still need to tighten the lug nuts and put the hubcaps back on and also finish hooking up the parking brake cable. I will open the box tonight that Lloyd sent me with the electrical diagram and cable parts and familiarize myself with what I have to do next. Tomorrow I will add oil and see if anything is leaking. Monday night I will start to install the overdrive cable and make any brackets that I need, possibly there is something in the box that Lloyd sent me and I won't have to make any brackets. The hardest part is done and I'm looking forward to the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Well, hurry up!! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Sounds good, I'm getting as anxious as you must be to hear how you like it. It should be a nice set up. I have a set of 3.4's I plan to put in my '41 Roadmaster, but the overdrive will be like the best of both worlds. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I CAN SEE NOW THAT I HAVE TO FABRICATE A FEW BRACKETS BEFORE I GO ANY FARTHER. THE BRACKETS WILL BE DONE IN A FEW DAYS, BY FRIDAY FOR SURE, MAYBE NEXT WEEKEND THE WHOLE JOB WILL BE READY TO TRY. Edited August 30, 2015 by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Today I got the gear oil back in the rear end and also filled the overdrive. Its over a hundred degrees in my driveway so it was a dirty hot job. The car has to be jacked up so that the wheels can spin to properly fill the overdrive, then lowered again to get the car back level and then fill and spin the wheels again. Its a PITA when its so hot out and its always a messy job. Tomorrow I'll bleed the brakes and finish hooking up the parking brake cable set up. There is a micro switch that has to work whenever the clutch is pushed. Lloyd can not supply a bracket for that as every car is different. I'm going to drive my car over to a friends place that has a lift and make a bracket that goes under the car and the switch will be activated by the clutch arm that comes out of the bell housing. I also need to make a better bracket that mounts on the steering column and holds the overdrive cable, the engagement button, and a little 6 volt panel lamp that will stay lit whenever the overdrive is actuated. If my friends lift is available I should be able to start on the brackets by Wednesday, if not I will wait until it is available as my driveway with the car on jack stands is just not good for doing the underneath bracket fabrications. I'm also planning on going to Harbor Freight tomorrow and buying a power bleeder, I've never used one so if anybody reading this has please tell me about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Today I finished the parking brake assembly. I bought a power bleeder from Harbor Freight, unfortunately it didn't work for me. The hose that goes on the bleeder valves will not fit a 38 Buick, I modified it and made it work but not very well. e bottle that was supposed to keep the master cylinder full while I was under the car did not keep it full due to a bad design. I finally got more air in the system than fluid and gave up. I ended up bleeding them the old fashion way by having someone pump the pedal while I was under the car, they still have some air in them and I'll have to do it again when its not 100 degrees out. For now I have a half a pedal and they are working. I took the car off the jack stands and decided to take it for a ride and see if any strange noises or other problems might be present. The car hasn't been started or driven in more than six and a half weeks so I was excited to see what would happen. The gas had completely evaporated from the carb and I didn't want to grind on the battery and starter motor to get the gas up to the carb so I poured a little out of my gas can into the carb and it fired right up. It sat in the driveway purring ever so smooth. I had already wired the overdrive lever so that it could not go in overdrive and cause the car to freewheel. I drove the car a couple of miles and it was great, no noises or anything and it was just great that it was running again but now with an overdrive unit making up part of the torque tube. I've decided that an old Harley Davidson brake light switch from the fifties would be a better switch than my micro switch that the clutch arm coming out of the bell housing will activate. It will take me a few days to get one but then I'll have a couple of options when fabricating the bracket that will hold the switch. I probably won't have the overdrive wired and working for a couple of more weeks since the next few days or possibly the rest of this week I'll be waiting for parts. In any case I'm happy so far and feel that this is going to be a great addition to the Buick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenz38 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Sounds great.....I wish i have one too ...With bleedin the Brake, i use an open ,with DOT3 filled ,bottle that i hang up on the inner open Driver door window frame with a hose onto the mastercylinder.I thight the hose up into the mc thread with an old thick shock absorber rubber that i screw tight into the thread, in the inner hole is matched the hose. Now the pressure of the fluid itself let run the fluid throu the mc to the wheel cylinders because of the higher level of the bottle against the bleeder.hope you understand my english .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I LIKE THE IDEA. I THINK ILL TAKE ANOTHER MASTER CYLINDER CAP AND BRAZE A PIECE OF COPPER TUBE TO IT AND THEN DO THE SAME THING. IT ALSO NEEDS AN AIR INLET HOLE ON THE FILL BOTTLE TO WORK RIGHT I WOULD IMAGINE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Great Idea !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 So if I understand this right all I do is hook a fill bottle with a quart of clean brake fluid in it and then plumb it to the master cylinder cap keeping the fill bottle as high as possible. Then if I open a bleeder valve and let it drain for awhile gravity will just push the air out of each line and wheel cylinder as I crack each ones bleeder screw. The fill bottle must have a hole in it to let new air in it above the fluid to keep it from creating a vacuum in the bottle and preventing the fluid from flowing. Does anybody see anything wrong with this scenario. I drove my 38 to my friends house this morning and put it on his lift. I discovered a gasoline leak while I was under the car coming from the fuel pump or the line that goes to it so that is one more thing that needs to be fixed before I leave his lift. My friend is a good welder and fabricator and his garage is equipped with all the bells and whistles. He will make the different brackets that hold the clutch micro switch and the 6 volt continuous solenoid that mount under the car and the bracket that holds the push pull cable and the on/off button to the steering column. He said he will try to get it done sometimes next week. Its about ten miles to his house from mine and the outside temperature was about 85 degrees when I drove it over there. The temperature stayed at 180 and the car ran great. There is still some air in the brake system as I can pump them up to get a higher pedal. Little by little the problems will be solved but overall everything is coming together nicely. I talked to Lloyd Young again today with a few questions, he is a great help on anything that has to do with the overdrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenz38 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) With the brake bleeding,I use not a bottle, i use there a funnel (yesterday i didnt know the word for it ;-) .. ) with a clear plastik hose, for that i can see if the long hose are empty, because of damn hating brake fluid leaks while i disassemble this "tool" from the MC.This selfbleeding needs a little quiet time, because of whait and look for the bubles in the slow running fluid when it come out of the wheelcylinder. Edited September 3, 2015 by jenz38 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I took a flea market oil filter canister, drilled and tapped the side added a gauge and schrader air valve. I added a rubber hose off the bottom with a female air line quick disconnect. Then I took and old master cylinder cap and tapped it and added a male air line disconnect. I hang the unit off a bungee cord in the car and apply about 5 psi air pressure. This unit gives excellent quick bleeding of brakes as the pressure quickly forces the air through the lines. I have made 3 different caps for the various cars I work on. I'll post a picture of the unit later today. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Thank you guys for the brake bleeding advice. I ordered another MC cap and I'm going to drill and tap it like Bob does. I like the idea of adding the slight pressure ( 5psi ) to the system to make it work a little quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Here's a photo of my brake bleeder. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I forgot to mention, If the filler cap is hollow on the inside, fill the hollow with epoxy and drill a hole through the epoxy The hollow cavity will cause a spill when removing the cap after bleeding. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Thanks for the picture and the cap info. I like your set up and will copy it. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 The brackets and wiring are almost done. I will take some pictures from underneath the car tomorrow. Still have to make the bracket that holds the cable, activator switch, and the on and off light and connects to the steering column. The solenoid that is activated by the clutch arm is done and the continuous duty solenoid is mounted. I am running #10 wire from the battery to the 6 volt continous solenoid thru a 30 amp resettable circuit breaker. I was told that the continuous duty solenoid needs all the amps it can get to keep it latched even if the lights are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 All brackets and wiring are done. I tested everything while on the rack and and everything seems to be working. Somewhere during this project the wire to my gas tank sender must have got pinched as the gage is now pegged on FULL. Tomorrow I will try to find the reason for that problem and drive the car to see how the overdrive feels. I will also take some pictures of the brackets and the cable mount. Everything is real clean and I am anxious to try out the overdrive. Its about 105 here so its not the best weather to drive the car but I will give it a short test tomorrow. I ran out of time today as I also have other commitments that prevent me from spending all my time in the shop until this is done even though I would like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Dave : We do wish you well and success. During our 1936-38 Club tour two of our members were recounting their bad luck with the overdrive conversions on their 38 specials. One a McLaughlin Buick. Bad solenoids locking up gears etc. and are still trying to resolve some of these problems. So they did not attend with their cars. One indicated that they got several hundred miles before failure and the other only about 35 miles. We hope all goes smooth with yours. Also as a side note on tour one member had the return hole plug up on his master cylinder of his 1938-41 with 28,000 original miles. Locked up his brakes = overheating which = dislodging old rusty sludge in block which = plugged radiator. Good thing he trailered it to Nashville. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Dave : We do wish you well and success. During our 1936-38 Club tour two of our members were recounting their bad luck with the overdrive conversions on their 38 specials. One a McLaughlin Buick. Bad solenoids locking up gears etc. and are still trying to resolve some of these problems. So they did not attend with their cars. One indicated that they got several hundred miles before failure and the other only about 35 miles. We hope all goes smooth with yours. Also as a side note on tour one member had the return hole plug up on his master cylinder of his 1938-41 with 28,000 original miles. Locked up his brakes = overheating which = dislodging old rusty sludge in block which = plugged radiator. Good thing he trailered it to Nashville. I realize some have problems but I've done all I can do so at this point I'll just have to HOPE that mine will be a good one. If not I'll eventually get it right. I had a couple of cars with overdrives in them in the sixties, they didn't give me trouble. These are old cars and the parts are old and I expect as long as I have it and drive it there will be various repairs and maintenance to be preformed. I had to do the overdrive mod as it was the only way I'd be happy with driving the car since on todays roads the traffic goes faster than I liked driving the car with the stock gearing. I hope my expectations will be met. I'll post my impressions soon, maybe even by tomorrow night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Today the OVERDRIVE is finished and working perfect so far. No noise or vibrations, with the cable pushed in the mechanical part of the overdrive is ready for the electric part to engage it. If I don't touch the little button next to the cable the car is ready but not in overdrive and the car will freewheel whenever I let off the gas, also in this position I do not need to use the clutch to go from first to second or second to third. After I push the button and let off the gas the overdrive engages and the engine loses about almost third of its RPMs. There is no strange noise or vibrations and at this point if I let off the gas the car does not freewheel and is as if the car is just in a much higher gear. If and when I put the clutch in the clutch arm touches a micro switch which once again disengages the overdrive and the car will once again freewheel. At this point I can PULL the cable knob untill it stops and the car will just be a normal car again and won't freewheel but will be as if there was never an overdrive installed in the car at all. I have included some pictures of the continuous duty solenoid, the cable as seen from the drivers seat with the little light that lights up when e overdrive is connected and the button I push to activate it. Another picture shows the overdrive solenoid that is mounted to the overdrive unit which pushes on a pin that engages the overdrive when the continuous duty solenoid sends it electricity. The whole thing starts from the hot lead on the stater motor and then goes a self resetting circuit breaker and the to a pole on the continuous duty solenoid. Lloyd supplied PERFECT and clear wiring instructions but the brackets and mounting positions are up to the owner. file://localhost/Users/main/Desktop/CABLE%20BRACKET.JPG PLEAS SEE MY NEW THREAD UNDER GAS GAGE Edited September 11, 2015 by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Dave, Do you have an idea of the draw on the solenoid? I beleive you said you are still running your stock 6V system. My concern is the low amp output of my early generator being to keep up with a high current draw. 10 amp generator ooutput is alot for my early system. Typically they run best at ~4 amp set point (which I can adjust with the 3rd brush adjustment). Thanks for all the great picks and info.. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Dave, Do you have an idea of the draw on the solenoid? I beleive you said you are still running your stock 6V system. My concern is the low amp output of my early generator being to keep up with a high current draw. 10 amp generator ooutput is alot for my early system. Typically they run best at ~4 amp set point (which I can adjust with the 3rd brush adjustment). Thanks for all the great picks and info.. BrianBrian, I don't know the draw but I can measure it next week. I put all the lights on with the overdrive engaged and the engine not running and it stayed engaged. I then tried to start the car with the lights still on and the overdrive engaged and it started without the overdrive disengaging. If the overdrive disengages even for a moment the little light goes off on the cable bracket and you must push the button to engage it again. I think the 10 gage wire and good grounds are imperative to a trouble free electric part of the overdrive system. I am still running a 6 volt system, my battery is almost new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I believe it takes 12-15 amps to initially "fire" the solenoid but to hold overdrive the draw is only about 1 amp. My '29 Cadillac has no problems with the overdrive's power draw, although it won't fire the solenoid with the headlights on--there's just not enough power. Turn the headlights off, activate the overdrive, turn the headlights back on, and it's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967 - 1997 Riviera Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 You are correct that current draw is one key to reliable operation of this electromechanical overdrive unit. Looking at the last set of pictures you posted, do you think you should apply something protective, like dielectric grease, to the electrical terminal connections? Otherwise, being exposed to the elements under your car may jeopardize your hard fought success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Agree, F4 tape is another way to do it. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) I live out here in Las Vegas Nevada, nothing corrodes here. No humidity, no snow, no salt, only the sun wrecks stuff but the wires are undeneath. I think I'll corrode before they do! Today I drove the car around town in 100 plus degree heat. The temp gage stayed between 175 and 180. I mostly drove around 45 or 50 mph but the speedometer only said 25 to 30. The engine definitely runs cooler with the overdrive. I'm loving my new buick. Tomorrow there is a car show under the trees and on the grass in Boulder City Nevada, I'm driving there in the morning. Life is good, lets see for how long. Edited September 11, 2015 by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937-44 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hope you have an enjoyable outing. Thanks for all the great pictures, descriptions and updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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