Restorer32 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Curti, is your Auburn a 6 or an 8? '35? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) The Auburn in the avatar is a 852 (1936) s/c 8, There are five other Auburns, 1-six, 2 s/c 8's , 2 non s/c 8's . All are 1934 - 1936. Edited July 17, 2015 by Curti (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Lets go back to the beginning. You parked the car in the garage and all was fine. Next time you tried a start, no go? What was the time interval between parking and attempting to start? You also mentioned it was missing when hot, under load, before that? Have you checked the carburettor float needle valve for cleanliness? A flake of something can jam it open and flooding results immediately, not matter what you do. A flake of shellac off the cork float in the fuel tank has stopped me in this way. Does the car have a glass bowl on the fuel pump and if so, is it clean with no rubbish in the bottom? I suppose another thing that can happen suddenly is that the carb. float fills with fuel and sinks, resulting in flooding continuously.Someone mentioned a short in the distributor. If the wee wires in there have any insulation breakdown, replace them. Intermittent shorts are hard to find. Have you put anything in the fuel to make up for lack of lead? We were sold an additive called Valvemaster in a wee syringe (one per fill). The plugs in my 1930 Dodge failed within a few hundred miles of using that stuff. All of them, at once, suddenly, as you describe. New plugs, new fuel, no additive, no problem since. So what can change suddenly like that? Carb. float valve; distributor drive might strip-break-something on attempt to start; short developing somewhere giving poor sparks; loss of vacuum somehow... It is flooding so there is no fuel blockage problem but if missing under load it could be a fuel shortage. Even a spring breaking in the distributor static advance system should still allow a start. Make sure your distributor caps have the centre contact. Some have aluminium contacts and the centre carbon brush can fall out. I had that giving problems similar to yours. The replacement cap was the same! My Dodge Brothers 8 had a stuck valve in one cylinder. It still started. It was an exhaust valve and it popped back through the carb every stroke on that cylinder, making the other cylinders struggle for fuel - it was being blown back out again! So even with low compression on that cylinder that you have, it still should start. The low compression may be a separate problem. Edited July 18, 2015 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmerc Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 I've been trying to re-create the timeline of troubles. The car drove into the garage in the late fall. Because of the "missing" problem, the carb was removed for first evaluation then. Since I do not have heat in my garage, work ceased until Spring. Since then, carb has been re-evaluated, then rebuilt. Distributor has been touched to change the cap, rotor, condenser and points. Also new plugs. Timing altered only to the extent that I tried adjusting it. Fuel filter is clean, pump works well (normal pressures), and compression is good. Nothing has been added to fuel.I have obviously missed something, so today I am going to play with the distributor and timing (not remove it).I appreciate all the suggestions I have received , I am focusing on the timing, and the issue of going back in time will probably provide the answer, if I can remember every step I've taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmerc Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Maybe I found something (?): today, I placed a timing light on wire to #1 cyl, turned engine over and I note that the timing light is flashing more than just when #1 cyl is near the timing mark. i.e., perhaps 3-4 times for each engine revolution. This is not good - ?Can a short in the body of the distributor do this? If yes, and there is no visually obvious short, should I remove the distributor and disassemble it?Now I recall that when I first had this problem I noted that part of the spring for the points had broken, and there were little flakes (?copper) in the distributor. I "cleaned" them out, but some might remain not visible to the eye. Any testing that I should do before removing the distributor (which scares me)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Replace the distributor cap. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) In addition to the distributor cap, replace the points, condenser and rotor.The possibility exists that the bearing in the distributor is worn to cause the rotor to wobble. Take a hold of the rotor and see if there is side play.Leave the distributor in for now. Edited July 21, 2015 by Curti (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry W Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Ben and Curti are absolutely correct! However, make sure that you didn't inadvertently connect the timing light to the coil wire, (duh)), and examine the underside of the distributor cap for "carbon tracking". These consist of little lines of carbon that may look like cracks. Edited July 21, 2015 by Larry W (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWest107 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Sorry to hear about the problem....I have been there myself..very frustating...Is the harness original? old wires can easily go bad.1st Make sure you have spark.2nd make sure you have fuel.what kind of timing gearl/chain is in you engine, make sure that is working properly.If all these are ok...then try starting fluid..spray in intake carb. The timing gear when out in my engine and had to be replaced. Edited July 21, 2015 by FrankWest107 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Worn (loose) distributor bearings don't cause multiple sparks, but variable timing. The timing light will flash on, before, after the TDC mark, randomly. Did you set the carb up properly - float level, needle seating properly, etc.? Edited July 21, 2015 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I noted that part of the spring for the points had broken, and there were little flakes (?copper) in the distributor.If the distributor bearings are worn enough the rotor could rub on the contacts inside of the cap. This is a good clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry W Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I noted that part of the spring for the points had broken, and there were little flakes (?copper) in the distributor.If the distributor bearings are worn enough the rotor could rub on the contacts inside of the cap. This is a good clue. This is a good clue indeed! If the spring on the points is weak or defective, it could conceivably cause the points to bounce and produce multiple inadequate sparks. Replace the points, get the engine to run, and then determine the cause of the spring breakage on the points. And from now on, carry a spare set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmerc Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Update for the record:The timing light problem is due to a defective timing light!. New light works in expected fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry W Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Just for the heck of it..... Does your engine have new ignition cables (spark plug wires) installed? By new, I mean modern plug wires designed for use with a modern, high output ignition system? I once encountered a gentleman with an early fifties Packard that had a hard starting condition. He nearly wore the battery down and overheated the starter before the engine would run. He stated that everything on the ignition system was new. I casually observed the "new" modern looking plug wires and asked " Mind if I try sumtin?". He was so frustrated at that point, that he said "go ahead, try anything". At that, I looked around and found a steel coat hanger and clipped the ends off and bent it into an arc and replaced his coil wire with it and said to him, "go ahead, try it". He looked at me as if he thought I was crazy, but two or three turns and the engine was running. I don't know........ I'm just sayin! Larry W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm thinking plug wires now, too. If they're modern, they might have too much resistance and if they're old they might be cross-talking a bit, although on a flathead they're not crammed together the way they are on, say, OHV Buicks. Remember, 90% of carburetor problems are ignition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmerc Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 THE CAR STARTS ! !My car started after an experienced friend placed a 2-sided file between my (new) points and filed a bit. Thus points were the problem, even if new.Problem noted when he just separated the points and noticed weak and inconsistent spark.In summary: Ignition/spark was the culprit. I failed to recognize weak or inconsistent spark when testing.Thanks to all who helped me through this challenge. I still have some other issues to work out and I will again be asking for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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