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Tires Pirelli P-4 vs Michelin originals / chroming the Fondmetal wheels


Guest alfieri

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Guest alfieri

My TC currently has Toyo brand tires ( M & S ) and they are the correct size. They are now about 12 to 15 yrs. old and are a 50% tread left M & S tire. I really like the Pirelli tire not only for the Italian sounding name but also that it was really founded in Italy as I'm from that area as well. This tire has a preferred look over the French owned Citroen Michelin original TC tire. The P-4 fits the car car so well for that era for looks etc. ........... Is there any TC owners that opose this because of problems that they had with the P4's ?

Edited by alfieri
ad a worone wordd (see edit history)
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My TC currently has Toyo brand tires ( M & S ) and they are the correct size. They are now about 12 to 15 yrs. old and are a 50% tread left M & S tire. I really like the Pirelli tire not only for the Italian sounding name but also that it was really founded in Italy as I'm from that area as well. This tire has a preferred look over the French owned Citroen Michelin original TC tire. The P-4 fits the car car so well for that era for looks etc. ........... Is there any TC owners that opose this because of problems that they had with the P4's ?

Michelin was the first radial tire and for a long time they owned the radial market; today they are one of many good choices. When I got my TC a couple of years ago, I replaced the original 20+ year old dry and cracking 50% tread life Michelin's with Italian made Pirelli's, not sure what the actual style number is, no complaints on drive-ability.

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Guest alfieri

Thanks Digger914 ....... Your message was a good help for me, but if you get a chance please see if the tires you own, have a bold P4, ...then let me know when you can. .............. Yes, as you say Digger, ...... Michelin had a hold on start of the radial tire market back in the day. .... Michelin was the first radial tire that I can remember. In 1970 only the Police had them on there Interceptor cars where I grew-up. ......... I thought when first checking on or maybe buying new tires for my TC that i'd see what the Continental tires Company had to offer, that is ...... since the major functional portion of the ABS brakes on my TC are also Continental ..... but Continental AG does not, or at least, ... I could not find anyone that sells the P205 / 60R15 that the TC came with. .......... When lookng for possible tires, I originally thought it might be pretty cool to have the original TC Mas. / ABS Teves Continental brake system car and also with a set of of new Teves Continental oorrect tires as well. ............... well its not gonna happen, ..... they don't make the correct size for the TC. ............. Continental AG Tires was founded by Alfred Teves in 1871 and yes Teves brakes. Continental Tires now equip's all new Mas's with there new tires. .................. If there are other viewers, I hope someone out there caught what I just said.

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Guest alfieri

I should also say that I am open to other sugestions for other brands of tires in case anyone has had a good thing going on where the rub meets the road.

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I should also say that I am open to other sugestions for other brands of tires in case anyone has had a good thing going on where the rub meets the road.

My Pirelli's are P6's and I understand that there is a newer version that is supposed to be even better. No matter how good your shocks and struts are, who really knows until you drive the winding roads what the newer version tire will do for a car with 25 year old suspension technology. Can tell you that my older version Italian made tires work just fine with my older version Italian built car.

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And now for a totally off the wall opinion. I am a fanatic about tires, after all, everything we ask our cars to do is transmitted to the road thru the tires. I don't put a lot of miles on my TC's and don't use them in the winter, so my tires will succumb to weather checking long before the tread wears out, so why buy a 40,000 mile tire when I'll never come close to that mileage? If you're putting 10,000 miles a year on your TC the following suggestion is not for you. Try a set of ultra high performance summer tires (200 wear rating) which are available as 205/50x15's. Many different brands are on the market, prices range around $110 - $125. I know, they won't last as long, which for me is a non-issue, and the profile is lower so my speedometer reads high, but the car is simply transformed - you can not believe the difference in steering feel, turn-in and grip, and they do not squeal.

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Guest BobFitz

I like the ride of my Uniroyal Tiger Paws.

TC's were designed as a touring car with a suspension design for that purpose. Trying to "improve" the performance and handling with performance tires and shocks will have dubious if not derogatory results. If you want a great handling track car, get a Porsche 944. If you want a classic Italian handling sports car get an old Alfa Spider. Don't try to make a TC handle like either one of these- it won't because it was not designed to. Enjoy the touring ride qualities with proper touring tires.

Bob

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Please don't criticize it until you've tried it. I have a couple of track cars and am not claiming the TC is in that category, just that the car is much more enjoyable to drive on the street with those tires.

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Guest alfieri

Thank you for all your advise or experience. I know more about ' Rub meets the Road ' because of you guys , ... Digger, Bob, Nile. ...... I will make a later comment but for now everyone following this thread is learning too.

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Guest BobFitz
Please don't criticize it until you've tried it. I have a couple of track cars and am not claiming the TC is in that category, just that the car is much more enjoyable to drive on the street with those tires.

Admittedly I have not tried any other tires on my TCs but I have tries all different kinds of tires on all kinds of cars over the past 50 years from Michelin radials on a '57 Chevy to Goodyear racing tires on a F/V to low profile gummy compound tires on my Lexus SC400. On the Lexus the traction was improved, the handling was different going from under to oversteer and the ride went from nice on a long trip to something like my Ford F-350 diesel pickup with no load. I prefer the touring tires it was designed for.

Cars are a compromise where suspension is concerned. Tires, spring load and rates, shock damping and suspension type and geometry all have to be tuned with each other and changing one affects all the others. There are posts all the time on the Alfa BB about tires, shocks and springs and how people have changed them to the latest performance components and how it ruined the feel of their Alfa. Kinda like the latest craze of slotted cross drilled rotors and ceramic brake pads on a street car. Outside of looks, they are actually worse as far as longevity and performance.

I do not pretend to know anything about suspension engineering so I let the guys at Maserati take care of that job and trust they know what they are doing. If anyone here has more knowledge than they do please share it with us complete with real data, not seat of the pants readings.

Bob

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  • 2 months later...

My TC currently has Toyo brand tires ( M & S ) and they are the correct size. They are now about 12 to 15 yrs. old and are a 50% tread left M & S tire. I really like the Pirelli tire not only for the Italian sounding name but also that it was really founded in Italy as I'm from that area as well. This tire has a preferred look over the French owned Citroen Michelin original TC tire. The P-4 fits the car car so well for that era for looks etc. ........... Is there any TC owners that opose this because of problems that they had with the P4's ?

You do understand that Pirelli tires are manufactured in Argentina or Brazil.

I prefer Yokahama because they are made in the U S A.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest alfieri

Hemi, i'm not surprised that Pirelli makes their tires in South America or as Digger914 says Rome Georgia.   Seems to be a growing worldwide trend these days,  for the big manufactures to make there product out of the Country or a long distance from the companies Headquarters.   The big U.S.A. Companies do this as well.   Maybe in the case of pirelli, its closer to the rubber materials from the rubber trees there. Less shipping costs.  Who knows.           Vonblood asked if i got my P4's and if so, what do i think.   :rolleyes:       I still plan on getting my Pirelli P4's but have held off since i may have my Fondmetal wheels chrome plated during  the same time.     I checked on this 6 months ago and the cost was prohibitive, :o ... $1,900.00 after shipping costs.    Now i am finding Chroming for aluminum wheels for about $750.00 including the centercaps and shippings costs to & from California.  There was a yellow 16V TC on Ebay a couple weeks ago that showed close-ups of the tripple chrome ( he says ) and the caps looked great as well.  Just when i was about ready to go in and get my Pirelli's put on too.     A few more of my thoughts on Pirelli:     The Maserati 100th ( 2014 ) Aniversary car is called  ' Alfieri '  which is 2 years late of course,... be avail. in 2016,  anyway, i got a close up of the wheels online and it had Pirelli tires.   Lamborghini has used Pirelli's exclusivley since the 1960's and infact have a new  'Pirelli Edition Lamborghini'  out now.   The winners seem to choose Pirelli plus the Pirelli Headquarters is Milan Italy, where the TC was completed.         Pirelli is going on 144 years in tire production and they have a good track record on and off the track.

Edited by alfieri (see edit history)
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Guest alfieri

I was really hoping  that someone would go on this thread who actually had chromed the Fondmetal rims soas to make it a  little easier on myself and others. It didn't happen, so i seeked out. ............   A  TC member  that is now out of the Country but was happy with his Fondmetal Chrome results when he had it done at a given company.  He has emailed me and will tell about this towards the end of the month. Maybe early Sept.

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Guest alfieri

Bill, were they Pirelli   P4's   that you put on the front or P6's or other?............   With only two front tires to make a big difference,.... Thats  ' CRAZY.  ( in a good way )        Is the steering from left to right more or less positive?   When you say harder ride I would assume you mean the Pirelli has a greater comfort ride vs Goodrich.

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Bill, were they Pirelli   P4's   that you put on the front or P6's etc?............   With only two front tires to make a big difference,.... Thats  ' CRAZY.'    Is the steering from left to right more or less positive?   When you say harder ride do you mean comfort or other?

The pirelli sidewalls are softer and get rid of any cowl shake.  It's hard to describe;  It's like a luxury ride with great handling.

The Goodrich had great traction and wear.  One thing is if you make a panic stop.  Goodrich was a block tread pattern.  You get a feel in the steering wheel as each block in the tread hits the pavement.  No problem just a characteristic.  i made a panic stop one time on a tar and gravel road to catch the view of the Mo. river.  When I started up the car didn't want to move.  I saw that the tires had peeled up the tar and gravel and it was like a wheel chock in front of each tire.

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Alfieri, I put the P4's on Saturday. Took a quick ride in town to get new thermostat, and than snapped a bolt and car has been at the mechanics since.

Short ride but will agree with Bill, the ride seemed smoother. I have always chased a slight shake.....this seemed to fix that. Could have been the two

slightly bent rims I had straitened also. Either way so far I am pleased. Will get it back tomorrow and will be leaving to join the Old 27 cruise in

Michigan. Will put around 550 miles on in 3 1/2 days on all kinds of roads. I will report back next week. I mostly bought the P4's due to rebates

offered through Ford and Pirelli. Got all four balanced and installed for under 375.00.

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Guest alfieri

Vonblood, as i leave this message you are likley on the 'OLds 27 cruise' ....and OH! sorry about you're broken bolt thing ( bad luck )  on the thermo and you got it fixed... but...I hope all in the cruise are having a BLAST!  ........... This will give a good ' field day ' as to how the  Pirreli P4's are doing.   I wanted you and others members to know that , it is the P4 'PLUS'  that i willl be putting on my TC and it is probably the same that you have on your TC  now.     The PLUS is just the upgrade of  that tire.       One last note on the Pirelli tire;  the  Chrysler originated  ' Viper '  and the Dodge ' Hellcat '  (SRT)  from what i'm seeing in later 2015, also use the Pirelli tire on their  600 Horsepower plus cars.

Edited by alfieri (see edit history)
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Ok well the over all report is that I like them. Seems to be responsive, ride is very nice. I will note that I am by no means any kind of tire

aficionado, I don't race around, I just want them to ride smooth. So you kind of lost me with the hellcat, viper, 600 horsepower stuff. I did notice

that they made a different pitched hum on the road, but was not objectionable. Hope this helps.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm slow , I know' but i finally had the Pirelli P4's put on last Saturday.   'Discount Tire'  installed the P4's  with the standard 29 psi on both front and rear tires.    Within twenty miles of travel,.. i had a crazy situation that required me to swerve very hard and quick to avoid devestation, new tires had a quick FIRST response but  rubberbandish thereafter ( side to side sway )...... Back to Discount Tires and now 31 psi rear and 38 psi front... This is soooo much better,.... I can't explain how much this improved the handling plus the improvement on the low tire profile look on the front tires to match the rear tires equally.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest alfieri

I had my P4's installed six weeks ago by Discount Tire.  The 29 psi was too low for all around. You can't go by the factory rec's.  I found that 31psi rear and 41psi front works best for this tire / car combination.  29psi does not work.  The front-end of this car is  FAR TOO HEAVEY. With my adjusting tire press along with Discount Tire's guide..ing., I now,...love my new tires and the way they perform.

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Guest alfieri

Going back ( days ) a bit,...when texaslowell mentioned or put forth the question ' with top on or off ' and the cowl effect. I believe he was thinking ( correct me if i'm wrong ) about the top heavy effect,.... even though the Cabriolet top is only 83 ponnds,...   I suppose it could create the 'out of control issue that i previously mentioned ..if you're talking about the cowl of the body ( and only ) without any cowl wind factor involvement,... then texaslowell you did indeed bring up something worthy to discuss.   I guess what i would think of in the process of elimination is bad shocks / struts as to the way heavy top problems.      I do hate to give up my factory 'Sach's though.

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Guest alfieri

The situation were I didn't have full control,.... I had the hard top on.  The cowl effect is probably not uncommon with this car.  If i understand what Bill is saying,.. is that the top holds the car in one piece so as to avoid twists and turns throughout the cars body / frame-work. Keep in mind,... I still have the original Sachs struts and i have 58,000 on them.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest mark_andrews

Hi guys! I just purchased a 1991 Chrysler TC by Maserati this past Saturday (October 24th) and the car has NTB tires with an H-rating of up to 130 mph. Since I've only had the car for 2 days so far, and only driven it a total of about 60 miles, I can't really give an accurate review of the tires... however, they seem fine thus far. My TC has the 6-cylinder, not the turbo, but I do agree with some of the posts here... this car is designed for touring, not racing. Myself, being a 50 year old man, isn't really interested in racing anyway; I just love the car and the way it drives... and just cruising at 65 or 75 mph is a simple joy, regardless of the tires. But better than that is puttering around town at 30 to 40 mph... slow enough so that everyone can see the car (and me in it) as I go by... it's a very rare and unique little car... and regardless what alot of the nay-sayers might think, this car DOES turn heads. Well, that's my 2-cents worth anyway. Thanks for letting me chime in! 

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