Is the 57 Chevy a good first car?

[Bleach]

Not the '59 vs '09 Malibu test again. Don't get me going on that one again. It has some serious flaws.

[Rusty_OToole]

If they used a 52 Chrysler it would demolish everything. Those babies had bumpers like guard rails only stronger, 59 Chev bumpers were made of tinsel and the rest of the car not much better. I swear I fixed a dented fender on a 59 Chev one time, and where the paint flaked off it said "Pabst Blue Ribbon".

[John348]

I think Dave touched on a real important point about insurance. When I gave my son my father's 54 Chevrolet none of collector vehicle insurance companies did not want to issue a collector policy for anyone under 25 years of age. He has (still has) a good record, 4 year degree, a good job, and a new Mustang as an every day car. He was already on my collector policy and they did not want to hear anything about giving him his own policy until he turned of age. I kept the car in my name until he turned 25.

So now if it is insured as an everyday car with a normal comprehesive policy, a male under 25 is an assigned risk automatically, now driving a 50 plus year old car will only make the rates go up.

I know some companies insure vintage vehicles to drive, but I do not think they would be too happy if you have an accident an cause damage while driving in inclement weather.

[plymouthcranbrook]

You can drive this!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]285392[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]285393[/ATTACH]

With those big tires getting it rolling must be a trick unless it has a 6.66 rear gear and maybe even then rough.

[John348]

If they used a 52 Chrysler it would demolish everything. Those babies had bumpers like guard rails only stronger, 59 Chev bumpers were made of tinsel and the rest of the car not much better. I swear I fixed a dented fender on a 59 Chev one time, and where the paint flaked off it said "Pabst Blue Ribbon".

You keep telling yourself that,,,,,,,, I still would rather take my chances in (almost) any new car in a collision.

[Dave@Moon]

If they used a 52 Chrysler it would demolish everything. Those babies had bumpers like guard rails only stronger,...

Dashboards too! However I am not sure that would be a plus.:eek:

[Dave@Moon]

I think Dave touched on a real important point about insurance. When I gave my son my father's 54 Chevrolet none of collector vehicle insurance companies did not want to issue a collector policy for anyone under 25 years of age. He has (still has) a good record, 4 year degree, a good job, and a new Mustang as an every day car. He was already on my collector policy and they did not want to hear anything about giving him his own policy until he turned of age. I kept the car in my name until he turned 25.

So now if it is insured as an everyday car with a normal comprehesive policy, a male under 25 is an assigned risk automatically, now driving a 50 plus year old car will only make the rates go up.

I know some companies insure vintage vehicles to drive, but I do not think they would be too happy if you have an accident an cause damage while driving in inclement weather.

You could be 85 and they won't sell you a collector vehicle policy either, unless you also have another vehicle as a daily driver. Any vehicle your using as a daily driver should have to be insured under a conventional policy, and the evaluation of claims on antiques with conventional policies is often (if not always) onerous. If there is such a thing as agreed value conventional car policies I haven't come across one yet.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Well folks, I hope you haven't succeeded in scaring the

young collector (who may be 60 years your junior) away!

Now where will the hobby be in 2075!

[John348]

Well folks, I hope you haven't succeeded in scaring the

young collector (who may be 60 years your junior) away!

Now where will the hobby be in 2075!

John, I was told all the bad things about getting married and I still did it! Looking back about it they were right. So I guess we don't tell him anything and he finds out the hard way, and really gets frustrated because nobody told him.

[Guest Skyking]

Well folks, I hope you haven't succeeded in scaring the

young collector (who may be 60 years your junior) away!

Now where will the hobby be in 2075!

If you think about it, it's really sad how times have changed. Think about the cars we had when we were 16, and we survived.....

[rocketraider]

You can thank lawyers, the media, and helicopter parents for a lot of the concern with uber-safety. The media scares everyone half to death to get ratings, the hover-parents buy into it, and the lawyers see big settlements.

Stuart, if you like this 57, it runs out well, and you can swing it financially, go for it. You'll learn more about machinery with a car like this than you could ever hope to on a modern car where the first step of every procedure in the repair manual is "connect diagnostic scan tool".

Just get used to having to talk with a lot of people who are interested in it, and dealing with old farts who say "young man, you have absolutely no business with a car like that!"

[cahartley]

I don't think Stuuuuuuarrt has gone anywhere.

I expect between school and waiting to get to his Grandpa's to check out the Pontiacs there isn't much for him to write about.

I doubt Stuuuuuuarrt scares that easily.......I didn't.......still don't....... lol

[Bleach]

If you think about it, it's really sad how times have changed. Think about the cars we had when we were 16, and we survived.....

What's even more amazing is how many of those types of cars have survived. I doubt the cars of today will last anywhere as long.

[cahartley]

^ Even if the cars last when the electronics start failing things will get next to impossible to fix.

There are probably enough spare parts around to keep them running for another 100 years but except for some of the real muscle cars........who would want to?....... :confused:

[John348]

What's even more amazing is how many of those types of cars have survived. I doubt the cars of today will last anywhere as long.

Not many lasted, they made almost a million of just Chevrolets every year, where are they all? At 70,000 miles most of those cars were shot mechanically, and rotted out after 5 or 6 years, if 1-2% survived would be a lot. The majority of the ones that made it were taken care of, and stored inside. If they were built to last the big three would have closed up shop decades ago. Cars are like many other appliances they last as long it is taken care of and stored properly. The cars today go 200,000 miles (with little or no maintinance) are considered to be low milage. I trade my Cadillac in every 5 years, not becasue I have problems with anything, but rather I can afford to do so. I don't drive an old car every day, because I don't have to. I take care of them, and when I feel like trading one in I have list of people I know who want to buy it for the trade in price. A Caddy and a Surburban I sold 18 and 20 years ago are still on the road, and they never had this "electronic meltdown."

Don't be afraid of something because you don't understand it.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

If I had to be in an accident I would rather be in a modern car too, a Mercedes. But there is no denying a 52 Chrysler is way stronger and better made than a 59 Chev.

By the way the 52 Chrysler came with a padded dash as standard equipment.

[Guest GT52]

XXXXXXXXXX

This example was in poor taste! RWB

I don't see that explaining to a teenager that there may be insurance issues with old cars, and that there are definitely safety issues with old cars, will scare them off old cars for the rest of their life. I personally think if anything is irresponsible it would be to pretend like there aren't serious issues with using an old car as a daily driver.

I hope Stuuuuuurrt helps his grandpa get his old Pontiac back on the road and develops a love and healthy respect for old cars in the process. At his age, I surely hope that he doesn't buy an old car and use it as a daily driver. Maybe insurance companies are doing kids a favor by not insuring them in an old daily driver until they're a bit older.

Edited December 10, 2014 by R W Burgess (see edit history)

[Guest Stuuuuuuarrt]

I don't think Stuuuuuuarrt has gone anywhere.

I expect between school and waiting to get to his Grandpa's to check out the Pontiacs there isn't much for him to write about.

I doubt Stuuuuuuarrt scares that easily.......I didn't.......still don't....... lol

Yup! That's exactly it

I have been really busy these past few days.

Anyway, WOW there's a lot of replies and views on this topic

As of now, I have decided to try and fix the 57 Pontiac up. I would much rather save that car from rotting away even more than to buy another car.

There are 2 pontiacs, one that was my grandpa's and the other that was my uncle's. My uncle doesnt seem to enthusiastic on letting me work on his, so I will work on my grandpa's (Kids smashed out the windows, and it has been sitting outside on a flatbed in the snow/rain for more than 15 years)

I am going to go up and take a look at it tomorrow, I wanted to go today but it decided to rain.

The car is parked up at my uncle's house (Which is quite higher up than me) so I hope all of the snow has not dented the roof.

I'll take some pictures of it!

Is there a simple way in telling if the engine is seized up or not?

If all goes well I should have a nice project to start after the winter (Or before, we very very little snow... I can still see the grass. It's kind of scary)

Once I get the car down to my place, I will create a new topic where I can post pictures and updates.

[cahartley]

I hope your uncle isn't the kind of guy who's "going to fix it someday" and that's as far as it goes...... ........unfortunately there's a lot of that going around....... :mad:

Replacing door glass is a PIA.........are ALL the windows shot?

[bhambulldog]

To test the engine for being free,

Remove the spark plugs.

Put some Marvel Mystery oil or transmission fluid in the spark plug holes. And on the valve train

Let that sit overnight, or at least a few hours...

Remove all the belts (fan belt, generator belt, power steering belt)

Use a long breaker bar with a socket wrench on the crank pulley.

If you meet resistance try turning the opposite direction and then back again

[Guest Stuuuuuuarrt]

Yup, meanwhile it's rotting away behind his shop covered with moss,plants, and small trees.

I think so, I do not know about the windshield though. I have found a few websites that sell them (They're a bit expensive, about $600 to replace them all)

Maybe if I do an okey job with this one, he will let me work on the other one

[cahartley]

^ ATTA BOY! Keep that attitude..........it'll take you a long way........

As for your uncle....... :mad: .......unless he comes around........but they usually don't.

[bhambulldog]

Try getting it in safe, legal (brakes, steering,glass, lights signals) streetabke condition

Then you can drive it while you work on its looks

[Bleach]

To test the engine for being free,

Remove the spark plugs.

Put some Marvel Mystery oil or transmission fluid in the spark plug holes. And on the valve train

Let that sit overnight, or at least a few hours...

Remove all the belts (fan belt, generator belt, power steering belt)

Use a long breaker bar with a socket wrench on the crank pulley.

If you meet resistance try turning the opposite direction and then back again

Let me add just in case, Do Not Reinstall the spark plugs.

[Larry W]

Let me add just in case, Do Not Reinstall the spark plugs.

And let me add that, make sure you mark the spark plug wires as to what plugs that they go back on, because it's easy to mix them up.

[Bleach]

And let me add that, make sure you mark the spark plug wires as to what plugs that they go back on, because it's easy to mix them up.

If it still has any, LOL.

[Guest AlCapone]

I am also in Canada. What city and province are you in ?

Wayne

[bhambulldog]

Let me add just in case, Do Not Reinstall the spark plugs.

And let me add that, make sure you mark the spark plug wires as to what plugs that they go back on, because it's easy to mix them up.

If it still has any, LOL.

good points, all !

[Lahti35]

Well folks, I hope you haven't succeeded in scaring the

young collector (who may be 60 years your junior) away!

Now where will the hobby be in 2075!

Here's the future baby!

[Guest Stuuuuuuarrt]

[Guest Stuuuuuuarrt]

Here is all of the rust that I could see

[Guest Stuuuuuuarrt]

After dinner, I'll hop on my computer and post some better information on it

[rocketraider]

The Chevy can be driven now and upgraded as needed. The Pontiac is restorable with a lot of time, money (way more than the Chevy's asking price) and work. Your call on what you want to do.

Look closely and you'll see the Pontiac's body shell is the same as the Chevrolet, meaning weatherstrip, glass etc will readily interchange, so that would make the Pontiac a little easier to deal with. I think doors and decklid interchange also. Always keep in mind that GM used a lot of common parts between their carlines- in this case, Pontiac and Chevrolet are the GM 'A' body.

If the rocker panel cover is all the rust thru that's minor. JC Whitney and Warshawsky catalogs used to sell those for about any car as it was a prime rust location back then. In this case, the Chevrolet piece will fit and is readily available.

[John348]

If the rocker panel cover is all the rust thru that's minor. JC Whitney and Warshawsky catalogs used to sell those for about any car as it was a prime rust location back then. In this case, the Chevrolet piece will fit and is readily available.

If the outer rockers are gone, so are are the inners which is a major job! And I don't feel one for a beginner to take on.

I hate to say it but the Pontiac seems like a parts car or a very good donor car for another Pontiac. Glenn is spot on you could take the money that the 57 would cost and throw it at the Pontiac and not see any progress. Also Pontiac trim and such is rather difficult to find and when you do it's $$$$ The Pontiac would be hard to establish a budget, where as the Chevy is pretty much a catalog car, a telephone and a credit card you can get almost everything you need and the search is not as difficult.

Stu, do you know the reason why the car was parked? or saved?

Make sure you join the AACA as a Junior Member, that is something you should do today!

Edited December 11, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

Here's the future baby!

Actually that's present day! This summer I was parked near a 2007 Acura at a cruise-in. The guy had fancy lights under the wheel wells and thought his car was worthy of the show. It took some time for the guy running the show to realize it was a mistake letting him in. Once you set a president, the lot will be filled with them and the old cars will leave and not come back.

[Larry W]

One of the first and most important things to get is the FACTORY SHOP MANUAL. I've seen these at swap meets and online for $20-$30 depending on condition. This would be like the instruction sheet if you were building a model car.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Larry W (see edit history)

[Bleach]

The Canadian ones might be a little difficult to find at any price.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Stu, as said before, I think options like the '57 Chevy you were considering (your latest pics, however show a rougher car than I for one, had initially envisioned) exist. I would save my money and research more, to be honest. The Pontiac seems pretty far gone and honestly, you cannot "fix this one up" without a tremendous effort, IMO. My point is not to discourage you but unless you and your Grandpa absolutely LOVE this Pontiac, and someone close to you is an experienced mechanic/bodywork I do not see how you can do this one, especially as a first project. Having done a couple of restorations I will tell you I would not attempt this one - another unfortunate fact is the car is not that valuable at the end of the day.

This car needs major bodywork, glass, etc. and I am going to assume a full mechanical rebuild of all major systems. If by a stroke of luck you do not need to rebuild the engine, I gaurantee all ancillary components - carb, starter, generator or alternator, ignition system, wiring and electrical, brakes from the master cylinder out, etc. will need to be completely rebuilt. Not adjusted, or cleaned up, etc. After the mechanical and structural body repairs you then will need to address a lot cosmetically. So you have two ways to approach this -

1) Doing the work yourself - do you have a roomy garage, tools including a compressor, welder, sandblaster, and money set aside for consumables including everything from degreaser to bodywork supplies, welding rod, etc. Believe me, $10K gets eaten up pretty fast when outfitting a shop. And you have not bought a single part for the car yet.

2) Hire a pro - the cost of a typical restoration has been debated many times, but just getting this car roadworthy, IMO will cost somewhere between $15 - 20K for pro mechanical and body help, from generalists to get you on the road, not a high end restoration shop. Plan on at least $5,000 in parts alone - tires, brakes, glass, shocks, wiring, lights, carb/starter/gen rebuilding kits or rebuilt/new units, to name a few items, likely more with the pro mark up.

Personally, I think a semi-collectible car to use as a first car, for the right person/conditions can be a great experience, as I mentioned earlier. I would just urge you to take your time and pick a much more solid car - it is a buyer's market in a slow economy in Canada as well as the US, and patience could get you a car that is really nice under $10K that you can enjoy immediately. Don't worry, there is always something to be done but best to learn on maintenance and upgrading components here and there, taking on little projects at first then bigger stuff, perhaps while the car is parked for the winter. you can build up your tools, etc. over time and your shop, if you want to do work yourself, will grow with your experience.

Good luck Stu - keep us posted on what you do end up doing!

Edited December 11, 2014 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Larry W]

Stu, The Pontiac may never be a trophy winning show car, but could be a source of great fun just cleaning it up and trying to get it to run. However, if you loose interest in it later on, you won't have much invested in it. For now, look upon it as just a toy.

[Guest Skyking]

Stu, The Pontiac may never be a trophy winning show car, but could be a source of great fun just cleaning it up and trying to get it to run. However, if you loose interest in it later on, you won't have much invested in it. For now, look upon it as just a toy.

As mentioned above, it will cost a ton of money just to get this car moving. If it were a convertible or Safari wagon then a big maybe. Too me it's nothing more than a parts car.