Rick Hoover Posted June 17, 2000 Share Posted June 17, 2000 Thanks also to Howard with Tims suggestion in using it. I have my order in for some and I'm anxious to try it out. Will share my findings with the forum as soon I give it a whirl.<P>Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2000 Share Posted June 18, 2000 Drove the '14 Buick that Ron mentioned on a 3 day tour in Illinois last week. Temperature in the 90's. Car performed flawlessly and shifted like it never has in the 12 years I have owned it!!! HV<P>As Ron said, you can't suck it up into a pump and it isn't easy to pump it out, but it can be done. The old two hands on the pump and the plunger handle in the belly seems to work well--unless you are a lot younger and stronger than I am. HV<p>[This message has been edited by hvscotyard (edited 06-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmj Posted June 18, 2000 Share Posted June 18, 2000 Easier to pump if you warm it up a little bit first. Warm flows a lot easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2000 Share Posted June 18, 2000 Ihave been using a semifluid E.P. gear grease which I obtain from my local Ford tractor dealer.Have been using it for years,with good results.As has been stated in the past 600W is not a gear oil it was made to be a steam cylinder oil.600W has none of the E.P. additives or any corroision inhibitors which are present in modern lubricants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted June 18, 2000 Share Posted June 18, 2000 Finding a substitute for 600W oil has been a topic frequently discussed among the early car owners. I've heard of several "straight" substitutes and a variety of home-made brews. However there is a product readily available that come closest to the real thing.<P>Mobilux EP 023 (Product Number 64105-0) is a semifluid, lithium EP product which works great. When I was visiting hvscotyard a couple of weeks ago, he had just bought a 5 gallon bucket based on the recommendation of Tim Olendorf. Helped Howard put it in the chunk and tranny and it made all the difference in the world in his 14 Buick.<P>Just ordered the product from the Mobil distributor. It's sold by the pound at $1.24 per pound. A five gallon can is 35 pounds and the total with shipping via UPS is $55.56.<P>If you like to use the old molasses pump with these heavy oils, forget trying to suck it into the pump - too thick. Take the back end and plunger off the pump, pour the EP 023 into the barrel, replace the plunger and then you are ready to fill that chunk or tranny. <p>[This message has been edited by ronbarn (edited 06-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2000 Share Posted June 18, 2000 To quote directly from the ExxonMobil spec sheet:<P>"Mobilux. EP 023 semifluid, lithium 12 hydroxystearate EP grease was developed for the lubrication of gears in leaky gearboxes. The grease contains antiwear addatives and rust and corrosion inhibitors. Specific applications also include gearboxes, cutter heads, trams, <BR>oscillating arms, pots or gathering head drives, pump cases and chain cases. It is recommended for use from -29C to 121F."<P>Out here a lot of it is used in irrigation equipment. Now THAT stuff is really subject to corrosion! ~~ HV<p>[This message has been edited by hvscotyard (edited 06-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2000 Share Posted June 19, 2000 On lubricants: be careful about using any gear oil (except GL-1 types) in your vintage gearbox. Some of the modern EP formulas may not be compatible with the brass or copper bushings some of these vehicles gearboxes contain. Have heard of some cases where the copper bushings were eaten away by the modern oils. Just be careful and don't be afraid to call the manufacturer. My 48 needed 140 wt. mineral type gear oil. Called the people at Sunoco who put me in touch with an independent refiner who was able to supply me with the real stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2000 Share Posted June 19, 2000 Chris, I was told 33 years ago that HYPOID gear lube would dissiove the brass parts right out of a transmission. '31 Cadillac What is your take on that? I have avoided it ever since.<P>HV<p>[This message has been edited by hvscotyard (edited 06-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Well, I will try not to be long winded about this, but here goes. A while back I needed to change the gearbox oil in my 48 Packard. The manual called for 140 wt. Mineral type gear oil. Living in NJ and the pollution laws I found out you can't buy 140 here. So my search began. I called Sunoco Refinery in Philadelphia and spoke to one of their chemists (who owned a Model A) and explained the problem. The first thing he advised me was don't put an EP (extreme pressure) oil or a multi grade in the gearbox. He explained that these gearboxes required "cling type" oil to be carried "uphill by the turning gears" and that multi-grades were too thin to do the job. He also told me that EP oils may not be compatible with the softer metals (copper/brass bushings) in the gearbox. He also explained that Hypoid additives except where specifically called for should also be avoided. <P>Well, that certainly limited my choices, now didn't it! But he was able to recommend an independent refiner in Texas (Texas Refinery Corp.) who might be able to supply what I needed. I spoke to a company representative (Lewis Mealer at (520) 532-5819) and asked him what they carry. Well, I could get just about anything I wanted 140, 90, 80 mineral type oils, but the quantity is a 6 gallon minimum plus common carrier charges. But when you need the correct item, cost takes a backseat. <P>Anyway, I have posted the fellows name and number and by the way, I have NO connection to either the sales rep or the company. This was a result of just nosing around for answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Chris, Thanks for the response and additional information. The Mobilux EP023 which we have been discussing is being used exclusively in EARLY cars appx. 1907 thru the teens where steam cylinder oil was the product of the era. As for cling, this stuff clings like molasses as well as lubricates. Most importantly its viscosity rapidly slows the gears when the clutch is disengaged making shifting not only easier but sometimes possible. In hot weather after 50-75 miles of driving it tends to thin out a little and you can tell the difference in shifting.. The next morning it is back to good ol' 600. ~~ HV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Glad to be of some help. I have copied the refiner's website address:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.texasrefinery.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.texasrefinery.com/</A> <P>Just out of curiosity they do make a steam cylinder oil but I think it is only 250 wt., but you might want to check them out. I use both their 90 and 140 mineral type oils with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2000 Share Posted June 22, 2000 Ron, according to what the discussion has been here, you don't want to use what you have there. That's an EP product which is not recommended. I have two samples coming from Texaco Lubricants Division. One is a Thuban, which should fit the bill. I want to check the thickness before I say anymore. If it works, I will start marketing it at Hershey this fall and the price will be at lot better for a five gallon pail. It will be definitely under $50.00 and maybe as low as $45.00 a pail. I'll keep you posted.<BR><P>------------------<BR><BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2000 Share Posted June 22, 2000 Al ~~ What exactly does EP grease do or not do that other non EP greases do or don't do?<P>Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2000 Share Posted August 23, 2000 I went to my local Mobil distributor of petroleum products today. He did not have the Mobil product oil, but said that Chevron Dura-Lith 000 is exactly the same. It cost me $40.20 for a 5 gallon container. He argued that there was not any significant risk for brass/copper with this product. For the Model A, he claims it will work well. I don't know about other vehicles.<P>It is sort of funny, as you get very, very opposing answers to this entire issue. People use a chemist, a brain surgeon, a plumber, an engineer and even God himself/herself as a source of strong support in proving their case for or against the product in question. I don't know how a new person is really to make any informed choice, other than to just try out what you think will work best and go from there. I figure that if my tranny is all eaten out by this product, then it probably needed to be replaced or needed a re-build anyway. If it can last another 20 years or so, then it will have outlasted me and maybe a few other people at this site. Have to see what pans out, but I went with the Chevron product anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2000 Share Posted August 23, 2000 I am a litle bit confused with this spec discussions.<P>What is measured by the GL grading ? What are the diferences between GL-1, GL-4 and GL-5 ? Where can I find these kind of information in the internet ?<P>I have some doubts what I should use in my cars.<P>I am using SAE 90 EP and SAE 140 EP oils in my 1951 Plymouth and 1954 Willys Jeep transmission and differential boxes.<P>And I am using SAE 250 oil in my 1928 Chevrolet and 1928 Model A transmission and differential boxes.<P>Am I doing the right choices ???<P>Regards,<BR>Julio Albernaz<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Julio, confusion is rampant in some circles. I can relate to your question, as I posed a simple question about installation of seatbelts on a Model A Ford. I thought it would be a simple question to get an answer to, but found out quickly that there are a multitude of so called (experts) out there. Many have opposing thoughts and some are even downright silly with the advise they give. Some said to install the belts and mount to body, some said to install and mount to frame, some said change your driving habits and seat belts are not even necessary. The guys who touted mounting to frame proclaimed the other guys were nuts, but the guys who touted mounting to the body seemed to think just the opposite was true. Unfortunately, some were race drivers, some were automotive designers, some were just regular joes with an opinion to voice. I still am not sure of which route to take, except for the moronic idiot who suggested the change in driving habits would eliminate the need of belts at all. What I am getting at is that almost everyone is an expert it seems, and you are going to have to do some additional research in order to make up your own mind in whom to believe the most. As I posted above, sometimes you just have to try something out and go for it.<P>I still rely on the advise of others, but I am pretty good about researching and checking out many a site before I take on any costly or critical jobs that can have a negative result.<P>Great luck to you. I won't tell you to do as I am going to do on the oil/lubricant situation I described above, as my car is not the same make or model as yours and I sure don't know if what I plan on doing would have a good result for you as well. As I said, research it first before you act on it.<P>Huey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Julio: I know exactly how you feel. For the past year I have been in a quandry about using detergent oil in my 48 Packard. Most guys said go ahead and use it, but then an engineer at Mobil said don't. Another refiner said go ahead, its okay. But then I ran across an ex-race car engine designer who explained that detergent oil suspends the particles of dirt and passes them through the babbitted bearings and this is not good. He suggested staying with non-detergent because the impurities will fall out in the pan. <P>So, now who do you believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Julio, Chris NJ, Coupe1942 - You "confusion" is well expressed and fully appreciated. If we knew all the answers we could write a simple book and no longer have the need of a forum such as this. As one of those who some people think is one of the "experts", I readily admit that I certainly don't know all the answers, but will nevertheless offer what I believe to be a reasonable response, if I have one. However, I absolutely agree that after you have filtered through the different opinions, eliminated the obvious screwballs, you at least are closer to the fine points of research and can make a good decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Ronbarn,<P>You are absolutely right. I understand the objective of this forum as a place where antique car enthusiasts around the world can share their knowledge and look for information to help them to solve their problems.<P>I am very happy with this forum, that I visit every day, and I feel very confortable to expose my doubts and thoughts to the forum participants, even being an antique car owner for only one year and a half. I recommend it to any antique car owner that I know.<P>Congratullations for we all of making these discussions interesting, exciting and very helpful.<P>So, lets continue discussing this topic in a positive way as many other topics greatly discussed here.<P>Best Regards,<BR>Julio Albernaz, Brazil<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 Just got out from under my tudor. I cleaned up the underside as I removed the old tranny lubricant. I found I did not have to remove the floorboards in order to put the new 600 wt oil in my tranny. I used a couple of mustard/katsup squeeze bottles and was able to push it in without dripping it everywhere. That is a pretty good trick for me, as I am generally a klutz. Any rate, it got dark before I got through with everything I wanted to do. Still have to drain and fill the rear end and also change the engine oil. However, the frog follies trip for me is tomorrow, so have to wait a bit on finishing it all off. Anxious to drive her about and see just what she now feels like in shifting.<P>The ball on the (torque tube/drive shaft) (don't know the exact term for it) has a single grease fitting on it. What type of grease is shot in here and how do you know when enough is enough in this area on the Model A Ford?<P>Thanks,<BR>Huey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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