Crisis in The Vintage Chevrolet Club!

[Guest]

Helfen, I have been an AACA Board member for 4 years now. I have been involved with AACA regions and chapters on the National level. Send me a pm with your e-mail address and I can explain exactly what the Board does and does not do.

Sorry to high jack your thread Biscayne John!

Wayne

Wayne, you can PM me here on this site. I want you to know and anyone looking especially the people who police these topics that I'm not looking to cause trouble, but if I see trouble ahead for AACA or VCCA or any club that I see a conflict happening in that organization, or trouble down the road I feel it is my obligation to say something. I mentioned before that I belonged to three brand specific car clubs for many years and what goes on in these clubs does not reflect all of those clubs mission statements. That is why I felt so strongly for Johns plight with his club. In addition after I left those clubs I thought and said so many times here that I thought AACA was my last refuge, but alas after joining a chapter and going to events/monthly tours, I got very tired defending AACA to curious people who would ask about the club, and then turn around and say "your clubs members don't practice what you preach". I was caught in the middle and when complained here on this forum, was looked at by some as a trouble maker and have had many responses to threads deleted. My only wish here is that the truth be told about any topic and my personal wish is to find a antique car club that believes the way it came is a virtue and not something to be made over in ones image or these days for todays comfort.

Wayne, John is right as this thread is not high jacked if the subject all relates.

Best wishes...the messenger.

[Steve Moskowitz]

"as well as some misbehavior on the road when leaving the show which reflects on us with the town"....you absolutely cannot allow this to happen. We had a lawsuit this past year for such an occurrence and although we won it was very expensive. Please relay that issue back to the region.

We will never all agree on this subject and I am not sure there is a right answer or a wrong answer when it comes to how AACA does business. 14 plus events all over the country each year are run strictly on our guidelines and I cannot see anytime in the foreseeable future that the club will change it's principles. It has always been a tenant that AACA can not grow (if you are not growing you are dying) interest in what we believe in by being isolationists. Over the years by letting regions and chapters be autonomous we have found thousands of new members from the street rod set deciding to buy an antique car and leave it stock. If we do not expose our type of cars to people who have interest in cars on all levels we are potentially missing members and promoting our belief system.

The practical side of this as well is that many regions simply cannot survive financially without the traditional car shows they operate. If our regions cannot survive what good does that do AACA?

Trust me, I understand that all of this is fraught with the danger we are speaking out of both sides of our mouth but it will do AACA no good to box ourselves into a corner, become smaller and not have the ability to help hobbyists worldwide. AACA does a lot of things behind the scenes including running this VERY expensive website for the benefit of all of us. This all takes staff and money.

From my perspective, in many respects is that you can have your cake and eat it too. If you believe in what the national club stands for then stay a member and support us and if a local region is open to other types of vehicles (some even have shows with farm tractors) you simply do not have to join that region or chapter if it bothers you.

Just one man's opinion. (John, even though you said ok, I am sorry to have to add the AACA talk but I thought another perspective might be important and AACA was brought into the fray)

Edited November 6, 2014 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

[benjamin j]

Whether a club or organization grows in size and memberships depends on one thing enjoyment.

Making sure the rules and traditions are fallowed usually helps with the enjoyment part of members experience.

Using the federal government as an example of how to do things is completely mad.

[John348]

Steve, this all good and well understood and well said. I have found it to be local regions in any club are nothing more then social clubs, and the cars are secondary. I have some observations to ad in the next few days when I have some more time. I have to go in for some surgery on my left hand today. NEVER IGNORE THE SYPTOMS OF CARPEL TUNNEL! I did and I am paying the price now.... see you guys soon.

[Steve Moskowitz]

John, hope the surgery is successful!!! Hope the forum has not caused you this issue!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Steve M. - your concerns are understood on road safety. My observations are based on several year's experience. It is really hard to police someone who leaves the show, and you can hear the burnouts, etc. and know where it is coming from; but they are up the road and even if you see the car your abilities are limited. That is why I mentioned this as a concern - simple fact is you run a higher risk of that with a lot of modified cars around - your going to have someone showing off. (I appreciate those cars and am not trying to stir any pots, but that seems like a common sense concern to me). No longer on the local region BOD but I can bring the concern back of course. This is another reason I see these as two separate hobbies, I know many do not, but the distinction is critical to me, for many reasons although that has been discussed here too many times.

I will say as a "walking recruiter" for several years at our show that I spoke with many hot rodder/modified types on AACA and did not turn a single one into a member. I have had success in other venues, but maybe that is just my experience and not reflective of things overall.

John I hope you recover quickly, and get good news on the club front.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[R W Burgess]

Steve M. - your concerns are understood on road safety. My observations are based on several year's experience. It is really hard to police someone who leaves the show, and you can hear the burnouts, etc. and know where it is coming from; but they are up the road and even if you see the car your abilities are limited............ .

Steve, just back from a dentist visit. Like John, I need to write something longer when I get a chance.

Car show etiquette, though, when leaving a show field can be controlled by the local police. They will glad to show up just before your show is over or patrol the area during the day. I had the local sheriffs department stop traffic for us during our Spring Divisional Tour here in Virginia so all of our touring folks could leave at the same time. The Department was glad to do it as our tourers brought in much needed business for the day. It's much better than what Steve M had to do, which was travel to Florida to represent AACA in Court proceedings. He missed an important meeting that week, and I missed his smiling face.

I'll address other things later this evening when I get more time.

Wayne

[Guest 36V12]

John,

All it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch. I have been a President of a car club and looking back at times it can turn into day care for adults. Unfortunately with all the rest-o-rod programs on TV it may be a losing battle. It will become crowd control. Us purest in the old car game can be thought of as "Driving Miss Daisy" by the new guys. All I can say is to restart a club, sub-divide and make it stronger. G&D(Pure at heart) and D&G (Distributor and Generator for the unruly, the 50 year old teenager). It's the end of an era. We know the truth. Someday the club in the distant future will go back to basics. Live longer and embrace the growth. What you ran will be remembered by us as true if it does turn for the worse. All the best. 36V12

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Ha "day care for adults" does ring true at times, and not just as it relates to this discussion. Club politics has a way of creeping in - just human nature, I guess.

On clubs I do not think all is lost for the purist, if their is a true market demand for clubs that focus on the purist in the future, someone will fill it. Personally, I would rather be part of a smaller organization that fits my needs than a larger group - cannot believe I am alone here, niche enterprises exist everywhere and I do not see purist oriented clubs as any different even if they span multi marques. in fact, this should only strengthen AACA if we stay true to our mission. It is tough to see a club you may have been an active member of for decades change, but you do what you can do, as John is here, at the end of the day, worst case, you vote with your feet. It really depends on the will of the majority I think, some clubs may be so focused on growth they are willing to compromise, others may hold fast. This is certainly a good "case study" for those with similar concerns.

Looking forward to John's next update...

[Guest 36V12]

John or Steve,

Perhaps I should take a second look before I spell the word purist.

Yes indeed if you can afford to take on this pesky detail, hats off. Afford meaning the effort and the time. I ask, don't let it consume you. I know someone who is not with us anymore that battled with leadership politics with his brothers reflecting car club leadership in particular. I watched the family feud eat him up both mentally and physically when his authority as President and founder was in question by his brothers. I (my chapter) took on a neutral role because I knew both sides (the brothers - founders since early 60's).

It never fails, too big equals different directions or perhaps an overthrow. There is a phrase that can destroy a car club and that is, "We should take a concensus...", this can mean by-laws out the door. In turn crowd control. I placed my chapter on "ice" until the family feud is resolved. "Let them battle it out, we're neutral." It's been 10 years and counting. I don't want to get too far off the subject matter. But I thought a few words from experience in dealing with trouble in paradise might help you along. Car club(s) for me took a backseat (no pun intended). Family first.

Remember, some people get nowhere fast and others it takes along time. If the odds don't improve, the trick is to get nowhere fast and move on. If you're religious you probably know this one. Do not store up riches for yourselves here on earth, where moths and rust destroy, and robbers break in and steal... I struggle with this one from time-to-time as the car collection keeps growing at my storage.

All the best. Stay strong.

36V12

[R W Burgess]

.......

It never fails, too big equals different directions or perhaps an overthrow. There is a phrase that can destroy a car club and that is, "We should take a concensus...", this can mean by-laws out the door. In turn crowd control. I placed my chapter on "ice" until the family feud is resolved. "Let them battle it out, we're neutral." It's been 10 years and counting. I don't want to get too far off the subject matter. But I thought a few words from experience in dealing with trouble in paradise might help you along. Car club(s) for me took a backseat (no pun intended). Family first.

All the best. Stay strong.

36V12

36..good post!

A local region near me had a serious problem recently. It required a special board meeting to air it out. It is still not completely resolved, but as you mentioned, this Club's By Laws too, had not been updated and were out of date. Good, well documented, By Laws are essential in preventing club issues that can really become out of hand very quickly.

Wayne

PS, forgot to mention, as you also said, do not let serious issues cause you to lose sleep at night. Correct them quickly!

[john2dameron]

At one time I thought if I went to a show sponsered by an AACA chapter I would see cars that had not been modified. Unfortunately they seem open to any vehicle that wants in regardless of modifications or age or any other conditions. This is not what I want to see but if I want to go to car shows that is the way it is. That makes me especially thankful when there is an AACA Regional or similar show near enough to attend.

[junkyardjeff]

As a memeber of the VCCA I have no problems with modifieds since the only Chevrolet I own is a slightly modified 37 p/u,adding modifieds is not going to be the end of the club but all the bickering might cause serious problems. If you do not like modifieds just walk on by as I do when I see a vehicle with a 350 SBC motor as I can not stand looking at them even thought I own a Chevrolet,with that said I am in a sticky position since my 37 is not original and its not a streetrod and definately not a hotrod so where do I go for a club. I do not think my 37 could be called a restomod since it has a 57 235 hooked to a S10 5 speed with a mid 70s rear end and disc brakes on the original straight axle and originalish steering (41-6) and it looks original on the outside,its just a comglomeration or parts to make it more enjoyable in todays traffic as to put it mildly it sucked when it still had the original driveline and brakes. I figured the VCCA would be a much safer club for me to join then a club like the AACA but beginning to have my doubts and might let my membership lapse next fall,

[Guest]

As a memeber of the VCCA I have no problems with modifieds since the only Chevrolet I own is a slightly modified 37 p/u,adding modifieds is not going to be the end of the club but all the bickering might cause serious problems. If you do not like modifieds just walk on by as I do when I see a vehicle with a 350 SBC motor as I can not stand looking at them even thought I own a Chevrolet,with that said I am in a sticky position since my 37 is not original and its not a streetrod and definately not a hotrod so where do I go for a club. I do not think my 37 could be called a restomod since it has a 57 235 hooked to a S10 5 speed with a mid 70s rear end and disc brakes on the original straight axle and originalish steering (41-6) and it looks original on the outside,its just a comglomeration or parts to make it more enjoyable in todays traffic as to put it mildly it sucked when it still had the original driveline and brakes. I figured the VCCA would be a much safer club for me to join then a club like the AACA but beginning to have my doubts and might let my membership lapse next fall,

Try and look at it this way instead of just walking by. If you like modified cars then just don't join a club who wants just factory stock cars and trucks. There are many more Chevrolet clubs that allow modified cars than clubs that only allow pure stock. My wish; just leave the people who like stock vehicles alone. You have many more options than the people who want stock cars, why take away their only choice.

[junkyardjeff]

For someone like me what other Chevrolet club would be better,if I knew of one I would drop the VCCA in a heatbeat,if clubs like the VCCA do not want people like me then they need to have on all literature in bold letters MODIFIED VEHICLES AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE THEM ARE NOT WELCOME.

Edited November 18, 2014 by junkyardjeff
spelling (see edit history)

[Guest]

For someone like me what other Chevrolet club would be better,if I knew of one I would drop the VCCA in a heatbeat,if clubs like the VCCA do not want people like me then they need to have on all literature in bold letters MODIFIED VEHICLES AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE THEM ARE NOT WELCOME.

OK so you joined this club and you never read the mission statement??

Welcome to the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America's official web site. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and restoration of all years of Chevrolets.

Preservation and restoration mean only one thing. When I read the above, it clearly means "NO" modified cars. And your not reading through a bunch of stuff...it's right there in two places on their web home page.

Here is the second one on the same front home page;

Vintage Chevrolet Club of America

"The World's Best Chevrolet Club."

A nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation

and restoration of all Chevrolets.

[junkyardjeff]

It was the closest club I could find at the time,my truck is not original and is not a hotrod or streetrod so I am kind of in limbo. All the parts used to build it are over 25 years old and if they were still on the original vehicles could be show at the AACA and VCCA events. SO WHAT CHEVY CLUB IS OUT THERE THAT I WOULD FEEL WELCOME AT and not internet only clubs as I do want to attend events.

[Guest]

then kick out all the members that own modified cars. make owing a totally stock restoration a requirement to be a member

No problem for me.

[Guest]

It was the closest club I could find at the time,my truck is not original and is not a hotrod or streetrod so I am kind of in limbo. All the parts used to build it are over 25 years old and if they were still on the original vehicles could be show at the AACA and VCCA events. SO WHAT CHEVY CLUB IS OUT THERE THAT I WOULD FEEL WELCOME AT and not internet only clubs as I do want to attend events.

Try this;

[h=2]Car Clubs in OH - Car Club Directory - Classic Car Community[/h]<cite>www.classiccarcommunity.com/car-club/state/oh</cite>

[junkyardjeff]

Well heflin thanks for the link but the only Chevy/GMC truck club in Ohio listed must not be still around,my last comment on this situation is I think its going to drive a wedge between everyone and make the VCCA events less enjoyable for everyone and the crisis is in only a few members heads. I never thought I would see this animosity between members of the old car hobby,maybe it has always been there but I just noticed it after being on this forum and its not getting any better.

[benjamin j]

I have been in brand exclusive clubs with the right vehicle and have also had perfectly/correctly restored vehicles. I will not join a club that is not enjoyable what would be the point. My vehicles are for my enjoyment and if others get enjoyment from them that’s great. If a club has a mission statement that reads OUR MISSION IS TO HAVE AS MUCH FUN AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT HURTING ANYONE ELSE then I might be attracted to join. I might encourage others to join and I might even take on some sort of service position in that club. Notice that I said service position not leadership position anyone can be a leader by setting a good example service is doing the things that no one else wants to do.

If a groups by laws are fallowed there should never be any controversy but we all know that even the best groups have some.

[Guest rjones]

Why bring your dog to a cat show and then demand it become a member? Get mad because the say no? Then bring all your dog owning friends to try and become members and stage a takeover of the board? Your dog has two ears, a tail and four legs but it will never be a cat. Some of the cat owners may be tolerant but most won't like it and your poor dog will never be accepted as an equal. The cats sure won't like it! The rules are there so that persons of like interests can come together in enjoyment of their chosen group without the added disturbance of things they have chosen to exclude. This promotes growth of the club by mutual agreement rather than a club being broken into factions. Try hosting a beer and gambling fest at your local church and see how it goes!

[R.White]

Why bring your dog to a cat show and then demand it become a member? Get mad because the say no? Then bring all your dog owning friends to try and become members and stage a takeover of the board? Your dog has two ears, a tail and four legs but it will never be a cat. Some of the cat owners may be tolerant but most won't like it and your poor dog will never be accepted as an equal. The cats sure won't like it! The rules are there so that persons of like interests can come together in enjoyment of their chosen group without the added disturbance of things they have chosen to exclude. This promotes growth of the club by mutual agreement rather than a club being broken into factions. Try hosting a beer and gambling fest at your local church and see how it goes!

Well said!

As I see it if you have no intention of agreeing with the aims of a club and disagree fundamentally with the mission statement of that club, then ask the question: "is this the club for me?"

If the answer is "no" then join a club that caters for modified cars - and by that I mean ones that are substantially modified - so you can learn from others how to improve and further modify your car/truck to the point at which it no longer has much in common with the original article. That seems to me to be the logical way to go. I see no point in joining a club where the existing membership is going in the opposite direction unless you do a 'U turn and return your vehicle to stock - which depending on how far it has been butchered - may not be a viable proposition.

Should there be no suitable club for you to join then get together with other like minded individuals and start a club of your own. There seems to be a large contingent who think the manufacturers made a poor job of producing cars in the past so it is incumbent on them to modify.

Ray.

[junkyardjeff]

Since I also have a 1955 Ford convertible which is slightly modified like my 37 chevy p/u I joined the Crown Victoria association which they do welcome modfied cars but on the way into work this morning I got thinking was it originally for all original cars and if it was did the same thing happen when they decided to allow modifieds,if that was the case then it semed to have worked out well since at the CVA events I attended everyone got along just fine and it was not the end of the world like I think some in the VCCA think is going to happen. I understand some do not like changes and if nothing had changed over the years we would not be online communicating and have some of the neat technology which could be a topic for a discussion for another day,if I remember correctly the AACA has a class for vintage race cars and they are technically modified vehicles.

[John348]

Jeff

Please read post #144 above. How many Crown Victoria Clubs are there? How many Chevrolet Clubs are there?

Edited November 20, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[John348]

Ted, Believe it we are getting through to the membership. This thread has had almost if not more then 6,000 views, the entire membership of the VCCA is around 8,000. I have had at least 75 requests for the petition just through either views of this thread or people mentioning it to other people that this is going on.

Good observation, but please do not use Jeff as a baseline of the VCCA membership, he is far from it.

The problem that had happened in the VCCA can happen every club if the members don't pay attention to who will be the leadership. All entusiast's of restoration and preservation aspect of the hobby, regardless of the manufacter, should keep an eye on how this goes

[John_S_in_Penna]

I like your analogy of taking a dog to a cat show.

Or a Hudson to a Franklin club show.

Sure, you as a person and hobbyist will be welcome,

but your Franklin won't be shown with the Hudsons.

It's never a matter of hating or "kicking out," but

simply of defining what a particular club will focus on.

[R W Burgess]

It's never a matter of hating or "kicking out," but

simply of defining what a particular club will focus on.

.......and being active in your club as Biscayne John is to prevent unwanted changes in your club's direction.

[R.White]

wow, 1/2 the posts are gone

How nice to have an explanation....

[R W Burgess]

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"How nice to have an explanation!"

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Let's review this again!

We all checked "I agree" when we registered to use these forums.

Here are some of the pertinent points:

1. "Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Complete Registration' button below.

2. Although the AACA does not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever."

*

*

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Biscayne John began this thread with:

“As part of a coalition of past President's and Vice President's of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America (VCCA) I was asked to present some sad news for those who might not have heard.

What we feel is a Crisis in the VCCA.”

At this point, everything was going along swell, even John was thankful.

Then we get off topic, making disparaging remarks about other clubs, and even the one hosting this forum, AACA:

"…..What a great representative of the Packard mark to show the public."

"……proceeded to get my but wacked in a friendly way by telling me the whole deal was hypocritical."

"....Just had to stir the pot a little bit..."

".....maybe this forum should be for aaca members only"

The remarks listed above had nothing to do with John's thread, so they and others pertaining to them were removed.

Thank you for adhering to our policies!

Wayne

[Highlander160]

Maybe it was alreayd stated about the topic, but there has to come a time for any organiztion to recognize more if for no more reason than attracting new members, revenue, etc. How it's being handled moving forward can count way more than a single decision. If this paticular club wants to educate the next generations they'll have an opportunity to do that now. To think you can convert every musclecar/street rod/racer into embracing the really vintage stock stuff, well forget it. Try to get the attention of a small percentage and be glad if only a small percentage of them take to it as the elders have.

The CCCA has this issue too. How many 35-50yr olds are all wound up about Chryler Imperials, Packard 12s, Auburn Speedsters and any number of even lesser models of the cars they recognize? You see it in the sons and daughters now and then but not much more. Their "schtick", if you will, was always 25-48 and some additionals on a "please apply" basis. Clearly there was merit to this (or not in some views) back when they were formed, and the air of exclusivity was certainly not for just anybody. There's no Model A Fords or vinatge Chevrolets, not many other marques that sold in 6 figures a year, and that was the point. They meant to focus on Mozart rather than Elvis. Sadly this is where they end, yet the very fiber that made "their cars" Classics didn't stop. Just to name a few, how about a Cadillac Eldorado Brougham? A Lincoln Mark II? And as far as that goes, what about a Ford (gasp!) Cobra or GT40? Chrysler Crown Imperial anyone? Ok, ok, what about those quirky CHEVROLET El Moroccos? Just when you thought I forgot about you Chevy guys, huh?

Back on point and topic, there has to be some way to move, to bend like a young tree in the wind vs falling over like an old one. The events and tours can be divided at times and combined. Enthusiasm and desire is contageous. If you have nobody else to "infect" then it dies. That can be good or bad, and ultimately it will be your membership and those events that makes that happen either way.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Highlander160 (see edit history)

[Guest]

*

*

"How nice to have an explanation!"

*

*

*

Let's review this again!

We all checked "I agree" when we registered to use these forums.

Here are some of the pertinent points:

1. "Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Complete Registration' button below.

2. Although the AACA does not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever."

*

*

*

Biscayne John began this thread with:

“As part of a coalition of past President's and Vice President's of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America (VCCA) I was asked to present some sad news for those who might not have heard.

What we feel is a Crisis in the VCCA.”

At this point, everything was going along swell, even John was thankful.

Then we get off topic, making disparaging remarks about other clubs, and even the one hosting this forum, AACA:

"…..What a great representative of the Packard mark to show the public."

"……proceeded to get my but wacked in a friendly way by telling me the whole deal was hypocritical."

"....Just had to stir the pot a little bit..."

".....maybe this forum should be for aaca members only"

The remarks listed above had nothing to do with John's thread, so they and others pertaining to them were removed.

Thank you for adhering to our policies!

Wayne

Seems we differ in opinion. The first two remarks are relevant when put back in their proper context, John, the author already agreed with me on that point. Making a analysis of VCCA position requires experiences not only looking within the clubs structure but comparative analysis of how others manage similar circumstances, to deny this is to hide one self from a wealth of knowledge and experience. Highlander160 in the thread 155 is comparing CCCA , does that mean you will strike that, or part of the thread?

[X-Frame]

So let me get this straight. The underlying issue is that VCCA board members want to change longstanding policies that are interpreted as "classic stock" cars. You have purists that want the rules to remain faithful to when the club was established while dynamics seem to have changed over the years (generations) that now want to include modified vehicles? And from what I read early on that the people in office have disregarded the group's charter by basically forcing their personal views and beliefs on others? Then what I think would be a good compromise is dividing up the group and starting another "sister" group. One that maintains the "pure classic stock" as originally chartered and another strictly for modified cars. Would there be a problem with that?

I am not a member but I do appreciate being a purist and hate seeing classic cars, especially ones produced in limited numbers, altered, modified, swapped, etc... to a point of no return in case a future owner wants to revert it back. History lost forever and a total disregard for it. I can appreciate it better with more common readily available high production vehicles.

Eric

[wendling]

When I drive my restored to originals as close as I can ( except air in the tires) Ha, the whining of the engine,gear noise,and the other noise such as bumping,and banging around it just puts me back in time,and is music to my ears,if not for this I wouldn't be interested at all. I remember sitting around on a park bench in town years ago we could tell any make as they started out at a light with out looking,and seeing one from a distance we could tell the make. Now if I want to be comfortable I drive my modern car,turn on the air conditioning,and enjoy the quiet ride. I try not to parallel park because the maker's set a trend  by leaving off bumpers to save money,and are still laughing about how we fell for it.

[cxgvd]

Two years on, how is the VCCA doing?  I was a member between 1979 to 2006 and it was a perfect club for me and my cars, but I own no Chevrolets now.  Gary

[Guest Ray PW]

John,

VCCA has had trouble retaining members for a long time. I was a member for over 40 years, ending in 2009. For at least the second ½ of that time span VCCA was irrelevant to me because by then most of the members restored cars with a checkbook,  not with their own 2 hands. But I kept renewing my membership anyway out of habit.

 

The end came for me in 2009, triggered by 2 events. First, management put a member satisfaction survey in the G & D that I took the time to complete and mail in. But management refused to publish the results, an unprecedented thing to do in any organization. Almost immediately after that someone wrote in to the “Ask The Expert” column in G & D asking how to convert an R12 AC system to R134 refrigerant. The “Expert” response was to take the vehicle to an AC shop and not do the work at home.

 

Those events were the “last straw” for me. Arrogant management and an “Expert” mocking a member sincerely asking for guidance through a common do-it-yourself project are things I don’t care to support with my dues money.

 

I hope you can see that the beginning of the end came when VCCA abandoned its grease under the nails, skilled home restorers in favor of investors who park their money in vintage cars. Welcoming street rods is just an extension of that disregard for the original mission.

 

With regard to modifications, in the May 2009 G & D there is an article I wrote listing the "stealth" modifications I have made to my restored '36 Chevy pickup to make it safer and more pleasant to drive. These modifications are so invisible that they were not noticed by the judges at the 1976 VCCA National Meet in Colorado Springs and my "Modified" pickup won class T-2 (1929-36 Commercial Vehicles). So those of us who want to make improvements have always been doing so. Subsequent to the 2009 article in G & D I have added more stealth modifications, a tandem master cylinder and 3.55 rear gears described in this article: http://vcca.org/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/334876/1936_Chevy_3.55_rear_gear_conv

 

Ray Waldbaum, former VCCA member #03855

Edited September 11, 2017 by Ray PW
omissioin (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

As someone who generally prefers stock original cars, but have no problem with some  "updates" on certain cars, mostly for  safety's sake I can see both sides of this topic. I haven't attended any shows this year except for a local gathering of "cruise cars" and have been contemplating the Cobble Beach show here in Ontario this weekend.

 The arguments, snide remarks and overall snobbishness are what is keeping me from attending shows. I can't afford most of the cars on display, but I certainly do enjoy seeing them. What I don't enjoy is the crusty and condesending attitude present at the upscale events.

Perhaps that is a big part of declining interest in rigid ruled clubs? That's one theme I keep hearing from fellow hobbyists," Too darn strict for me"

 Just an opinion from the fringe!

I was hoping to drive my Eldorado, but it's a bit too shabby for the parking lot and I'm getting too thin skinned to ignore the comments from the peanut gallery in my old age

[Guest SaddleRider]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2014 at 7:32 AM, Matt Harwood said:

............. The fact is, as long as the national clubs have budgets, they're going to have to chase dollars. I suspect that was the impetus a few years ago for the CCCA to float the idea of extending the cut-off to 1954 or something ridiculous like that. More members = more membership money. That's really the bottom line...........

I don't know what I'm saying. I'm rambling. I'm sad that the clubs as we knew them are slowly (and sometimes painfully) dying and the hobby is becoming vastly different even from 20 years ago............... hope that the AACA holds fast to its core beliefs.

 

Matt - I agree with you 100%,  and no. you are most certainly not rambling.... !...of course what you are saying is valid.

 

But you aren't being realistic or fair.    Simple fact is,  most of the major car clubs have been taken over by people in the used car business.   They are fully aware that it is absolutely essential to call a car a "classic-antique"   to help sell it.    You may be aware that a really sharp well-set-up  hot-rodded '32 Ford "duce" will bring far more; is far more saleable......than a bone-stock one.

 

As I noted in another post,   it is getting harder and harder to find ANYTHING these days,  be it in an old car advertising publication, or even in a supermarket,  that people do not screech that what they are trying to sell is "classic".    Are you old enough to remember the big fuss when some guy wanted to bring his '41 Cadillac into the CCCA?  We know how that turned out.  But it sure helps to sell cars....!

 

Advertising is what puts food on their table.  Not fair of you to want to deprive them of a living!      So why should it be a surprise that so many of them got into the various old car hobby clubs  in order to move inventory ?

 

Are you aware that there was a time when the AACA felt cars newer than the Model "T"  were considered technically too advanced to be called "antiques"...?     We know how that turned out !  But it sure helps to sell cars......... !

 

Here's one example of how things have changed, that you may be familiar with  - turn to  Pp. 9 of the current rule book for the Classic Car Club Of America.   It is where down thru the years,  we have our 'SIGNIFICANT CLUB POLICY STATEMENTS.      Some years ago the then current officers, recognizing the trend,  falsified the statements to suggest we accept post war cars ( thru 1948).    Of course our By Laws prior to that date were quite clear - the "cut-off" was  the PRE war era.     Note how the current  CCCA Nat. Directory  (which does still contain these "policy statements" reflecting what the CCCA was about)  ,  now "over-prints" that page with the note  "May Conflict With Current Policies".  Ha...no kidding  !

 

The simple fact, as others have pointed out,  our country and our culture is changing.   All hobbies dealing with technical matters are  suffering membership /  "active participation in event"  declines.   My airplane club, my model train club,  my car clubs are all suffering that.  

 

It is a normal human trait to want to be "noticed".   Given modern streamlining & safety needs cars do look more alike than they did many years ago.   Some folks recognize if they drive around in a car with older body styling, they can get attention that way.   Can you deny that a modern car, with air conditioning & all the other creature comforts,  is more pleasant to drive on a hot, humid day,  than something from the pre-war era ?    So why not take the sheet metal of a pre-war car,  and stuff inside it modern suspension, electrical, hydraulic, and power-plant systems?

 

Bottom line - yes you are right..yes I agree with you....but that's just us.  Face it...we are dinosaurs....we can bellow, whine, & roar.....but nobody's listening....they all have their ears inside their headphones while they play with their "smart-phones"  !

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by SaddleRider (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

 

The membership may be remaining the same in numbers of 8,000 or so, but what has happened to the 13,000 additional memberships that have been opened in the past twelve years ?

Edited September 12, 2017 by bobg1951chevy (see edit history)

[stillplays]

I joined the VCCA in 2000 with a modified 1956 Chevy, 350/350, lowered, louvered hood car

that I restored as I found it before joining the VCCA. Although some folks poo pooed my car

because it was not "correct", the members found that I was active and would to get invloved.

As a result of joining, I discovered the value of "correct" cars and I now own a "mostly" correct

1964 Impala SS 409, and a "mostly" correct 1968 Corvette. The reason they are not correct is 

that I found that the original owner put headers and a Hurst Shifter on the Impala, everything 

else is factory correct, paint, interior, spare, and the Corvette does not have all the correct hoses

clamps, starter, water pump etc. But it is the correct color, matching numbers etc.

The point being is that joining the VCCA showed me the value of "correct" and that is now the 

direction that I head now. So maybe allowing "modified" cars will have the same affect on some 

of the "newbies" as it did on me.

We can only hope.