Crisis in The Vintage Chevrolet Club!

[smithbrother]

Actually I don't care whether or not they allow modified cars in any club. Members of a club, and the BOD need to decide that.

I can only state that I have attended many shows that allow modified cars, and I have yet to see any issues, but HEY, if the Chevy club wants to NOT allow such, that's just fine and dandy with me.

My Buick has a Chevy LT-1 engine, NEVER have I not been able to show it at a Buick show.

I also have a 600 HP 79 Vette, won best of show at a Super Chevy Sunday Show, so I have no beef with the Chevy folks. PERIOD.

I'm an OLD arty guy, so do beat to a different drum, but HEY, I respect the purists cars, and their VIEWS.

Dale in Indy

Edited October 6, 2014 by smithbrother (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Biscayne John and others,

If such a sweeping action was taken only by the club's directors,

WAS IT A VIOLATION OF YOUR CLUB'S BY-LAWS?

Has the VCCA's "mission" or "purpose" to support only

authentic Chevrolets been defined in its by-laws? If so, that

gives you protection.

And do your by-laws refer to Robert's Rules of Order?

Good by-laws protect the club, both the majority and the minority,

by requiring, for instance, approval of 2/3 of all members when enacting

changes to by-laws; and those proposed changes need to be

announced well in advance. That keeps surprises from happening,

ensures that all members know what is proposed, and requires overwhelming

support for such an important change.

I'm not a parliamentarian, but I believe Robert's Rules also

may have procedures for removing directors from office. Or perhaps

your by-laws already provide ways to address this issue, too.

In this issue, you can see the lack of wisdom if your club's

by-laws give overwhelming power to a few. No matter what happens,

members probably now can see the tremendous importance of sound

and carefully worded by-laws--whether now or once the problem is straightened out.

Edited October 6, 2014 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Those following this thread here may want to look in on the Model T Ford Club of America's forum site to see what is being said about your situation. Comments, both good and bad are there. Warning, I did use the "H" word in my post.

Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Something to ponder happening at the Vintage Chevy club

This below should hopefully be the link straight to the thread.;

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/484313.html?1412647008

Or you may need to do a copy and paste to your browser.

Good luck guys!

Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

[John348]

Hey Guys,

I am at Hershey and not spending much time on the net, when I am not walking, talking or eating, I am sleeping! Will have some updates and answers when I return to my home base

[Robert Street]

John 18 cars in 36B so I will be busy Sat but stop by after Judging. I believe 3 62 409 cars are here! I know two of them so is the 3rd yours.

Robert

[John348]

Sorry Rob, I left the Chevy home, I registered a Buick, but I had sold it last week, I will look for you on Saturday

[John_S_in_Penna]

Time for an update, Biscayne John!

And I think the by-law question (Posting #83)

could be a great help to you, whether now

(if your by-laws protect you), or in the future

(if you prepare strong by-laws)!

Your organization should be democratic, with the

executive board subject to the collective membership.

Members could initiate a by-law revision if necessary!

[John348]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your interest, and I would like to give a long over due an update of the situation in The Vintage Chevrolet Club of America. The Hershey response was great! We had many members who sought us out and signed the petition. Also I would like to thank those who are not members of the VCCA and came by to show their support to the membership of the club for standing up and trying to keep the club the same as it has been for the past 53 years, and also the club they had joined. On Thursday of Hershey Week the VCCA has had a traditional gathering of it's members going back for about 15 years now. My good friend and a fellow 60 Chevrolet owner the late Ron Flory started this with a gathering at his home in near by Hummelstown PA. (I miss you Ron!) It first started out with three of us coming by for a cup of coffee and looking at the progress of his current restoration projects, then it grew to about 15, then 25 people then well over 100 members and to the point where out grew the Flory residence. This tradition is still carried on by the local region he had started years ago and is now catered and at a rented facility. It has now become one of the largest gathering of VCCA members from all over the world! Thanks again Ron!

After the food was served Past President Don Williams spoke with the crowd and explained why the need for the petition and pointed out the mistakes and oversights that the current BOD had made. After Don spoke, current VCCA President Dave Miner (who did not support the modified changes) addresed the audience and handed out copies of two motions that the BOD is reviewing. The BOD will vote on after a defined discussion period as per the by-laws early December. The motions were submitted by Mr Williams on behalf of the Coalition and a current BOD member Jim Karras (who also did not support the changes) The BOD Member who spearheaded the modified change, Jim Gephardt was present at the gathering but elected not speak. I think this was a very wise move on his part because he would have not been received very well, only making this self induced problem even uglier.

The two motions basically serve the same pupose of the petition and basically will expedite the process. The Motions are 14-09A and 14-10. The Coalition was asked to stand down our efforts while these motions were in the discussion stage, we did so only if a straw poll was taken by the BOD to see how they would vote. The motions were approved 10-1 on that poll. Now that does not mean that when the vote will be taken that they will vote the same way as they did is the straw poll. We are still going strong with the petition and seeking signatures, which are coming in every day.

Please if you are in the VCCA email (contact information is located in the front of the monthly magazine) your area BOD member and also CC the President, so there is a record. Explain to them that you feel that these two motions 14-09A and 14-10 are in the best interest of the club and you want them to support these motions........

Thanks and more to come!!!!!

Edited October 24, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[62BillT]

By the way John, after having trouble with it, we finally got it accomplished. I was able to sign the Petition. My wife and I both signed it. I sent it in to Don.

Talk to you later.

Bill

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Good luck in your efforts, John. Every time I passed by the VCCA tent a couple weeks ago I thought of you, this thread and the issue at hand. Not a Chevy owner now (did have a '39, '48, '56 - all original cars) but definately understand the desire to keep to the original mission of the club, hope it goes your way, and glad to see the update on things so far!

[RPrice]

Food for thought. I am not a Chevy owner, but I am a long time member of the Studebaker Drivers Club, which has approximately 12,000 members. Modified Studebakers are allowed in the club, but they are in a distinct group. Even in the monthly magazine, "Turning Wheels," there is a special section for just modified Studes. Members can read that section, or ignore it. I usually ignore it, because I prefer cars restored to their original condition. I do realize, though, that in the real world, change is sometimes mandatory.

I would suggest that any VCCA members who are concerned about this issue, ask a Studebaker friend to let you see one of his Turning Wheels magazines and judge for yourself.

You have my best wishes for a solution to this concern.

I hope this helps.

Rog

[Guest drnittler]

I am in the SDC as well and forgot about the modified Studebakers. I guess their approach is the best solution I prefer original and/or correct restorations as well. My 61 Lark was and is my first collector car. I have other collector cars and I am working on selling them and get back to my Studebaker roots.

[John348]

Hey Roger,

Long time no see I have not been out to a VCR meeting in some time, hope all is well. Great points made but we need to keep in mind there are not a lot of Studebaker Clubs for Studebaker owners to gather either modified or stock. Not many that I can think of anyway, where there has to be at least 30 or 40 national based Chevrolet clubs, and the VCCA was the only Chevrolet Club that was exclusive for entusiasts who prefer restoration and preservation aspect of the hobby. Those clubs for Chevrolet enthusiasts who prefer to modify their cars, and they are established and had existed for a long time.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

John, are there not bylaws within the group's charter that these board members are supposed to uphold when they took office? Can their decisions be overruled because of it?

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Soputh Jersey VCCA has their annual fall Cowtown in the spring swap meet tomorrow. Anybody who missed signing the petitions can probably do it their if it's convenient.

[John348]

John, are there not bylaws within the group's charter that these board members are supposed to uphold when they took office? Can their decisions be overruled because of it?

Great question. Very true, however they voted to change the by-laws which they can do as Board Members with a 2/3 majority vote of the BOD. However all Board Members did take an oath that basically they will uphold the clubs mission, which is "restoration and preservation." The only legal way we found in the by-laws to reverse a decision is to use this petition process. Which has been going better then we figured. The easiest way for the BOD to save face is to vote yes to motion 14-09a and 14-10, which basically acomplishes the same thing that the petition says. The fact that the members have the petition and it is going strong, is the gun to their head to approve these motions.

I have to get to bed. I love baseball, but I liked the World Series better when they plated day games! I am tired good night

Edited October 26, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Biscayne John, if 2/3 of the club's board can change the

by-laws by themselves, with no discussion or approval by

the thousands of members, YOUR CLUB NEEDS BETTER BY-LAWS!

There should be a mechanism currently existing for MEMBERS to

initiate by-law changes to get those protections in place for the

future--especially if your by-laws incorporate Robert's Rules of Order

by reference.

A few people (the board) should not be allowed such power by themselves!

By-laws are as important as a country's constitution.

Most club members think of them rarely, assuming they are just a formality,

but this situation demonstrates the need for carefully worded by-laws.

[John348]

John, Very good points.

The Club's by-laws are very extensive and have been around for over 53 years. The by-laws in any club must be living document, and have to change from time to time. When I served on the BOD for 9 years there were many by-law chages made. Non of those by-laws changed the identity of the club like problem we as a club are facing today. The system should work well by design, members elect a representitive based on the geographic area where they reside, and those representitives vote on any issues, reflective of the feelings of the members who reside in their area.

Does the club need better by-laws? I am sure yet they can use some improving, but what the VCCA does need is more members concerend with who manages the club, and also needs members who run for the board to be better qualified to manage the club!

There are mechanism's in the by-laws for the membership to overturn a by-law change by the BOD. One of them is the petition process that is ongoing right now. Also members can submit motions to the BOD and participate with that discussion process, that is also going on about the changes to the club right now. So we will see how the by-laws worked to protect the membership in a few months.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

I have to agree with John S. Apparently the by-laws were written in a way to allow loopholes for the "powers" to change at will rather than being written in stone that the original core focus of the group will never change and that is the stock original preservation of Chevrolets. Now if they want to create an offshoot of the group for modified cars that would be fine and let the group membership decide whare they want to lay their loyalties rather than be forced by a dictatorship.

[dictator27]

Food for thought. I am not a Chevy owner, but I am a long time member of the Studebaker Drivers Club, which has approximately 12,000 members. Modified Studebakers are allowed in the club, but they are in a distinct group. Even in the monthly magazine, "Turning Wheels," there is a special section for just modified Studes. Members can read that section, or ignore it. I usually ignore it, because I prefer cars restored to their original condition. I do realize, though, that in the real world, change is sometimes mandatory.

I would suggest that any VCCA members who are concerned about this issue, ask a Studebaker friend to let you see one of his Turning Wheels magazines and judge for yourself.

You have my best wishes for a solution to this concern.

I hope this helps.

Rog

I am also a member of the Studebaker Drivers Club (46 years). I own both a prewar and a postwar Studebaker. To add to Roger's comments, there are two separate classes for modified Studebakers. One for cars still powered by Studebaker engines and another for non Studebaker powered cars. Many of the cars in the former class have Studebaker V8's replacing the Champion 6. They may be absolutely stock in every other respect, but they are still a modified car. In the latter class, the almost universal engine of choice is the Chevrolet 350.

In the early days of the club (SDC was founded in 1962 so is about the same age as the VCCA), there was a club member who advocated the use of non Studebaker parts. The intent was simply to provide ways to keep Studebakers on the road, there was no consideration given to authenticity. For his efforts, the BOD of the day expelled him from the club. It is worthy of note that some of his suggestions/modifications are now being used.

Are there people in SDC who object (strongly) to the articles on modified Studebakers - in some cases the only Studebaker content is a heavily modified body - in Turning Wheels? Absolutely. The person who edits the modified column has actually received serious threats. Have people quit the club because they couldn't stand to see one of the most beautiful designs ever conceived (the 53-54 Starliner hardtop) modified? Yes, but that has not affected SDC membership. As Roger noted SDC has about 12,000 members. That number has stayed relatively constant for some time now. In short, the people who favour authenticity and those advocating modification have learned to coexist. That is as it should be.

Terry

PS Both of my Studebakers (1927 Dictator sedan and 1954 Commander Starliner are unmodified.

Edited October 28, 2014 by dictator27 (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Just curious . Perhaps you can help me with a very irritating problem . I noticed your original posting had the last part of the text " edited " out. How did you recover it ? This has happened to me several times , and I figured it was some deficiency with " Auto-Saved " . I am old and lacking computer skills . This intimidates me . I hesitate to contribute because of this . Thanks for helping me if you can. - Carl

[X-Frame]

I am also a member of the Studebaker Drivers Club (46 years).

PS Both of my Studebakers (1927 Dictator sedan and 1954 Commander Starliner are unmodified.

I am always asking people with classics questions about chassis design especially X-bracesd and cruciform styles (hence my screen name). It is all part of research for a book.

That said, do you know why the 1932-1933 Rockne had a X-brace before Studebaker picked it up late in the game in 1934 (used until 1946 on all their cars) even though Rockne was an offshoot of Studebaker?

In general the X-brace design became popular worldwide c. 1932 due to the introduction of "Floating Power" designed by Chrysler and adopted by many manufacturers to strengthen the frame where engines used to be bolted down directly to the frame or through solid hard rubber blocks.

(BTW... X-bracing was seen once again on Studebakers starting on the 1959 Lark convertibles and later still on Avanti.)

Thanks!

Eric

[X-Frame]

Just curious . Perhaps you can help me with a very irritating problem . I noticed your original posting had the last part of the text " edited " out. How did you recover it ? This has happened to me several times , and I figured it was some deficiency with " Auto-Saved " . I am old and lacking computer skills . This intimidates me . I hesitate to contribute because of this . Thanks for helping me if you can. - Carl

With me as far as editing I have noticed with the browser a glitch of sorts I guess, where if you want to edit the post you first have to refresh the page before editing or an edit will not take (save button won't react). But most of the time (not always) I type a response in a email or word document then cut and paste so I still have the original message at hand if needs editing.

[dictator27]

Just curious . Perhaps you can help me with a very irritating problem . I noticed your original posting had the last part of the text " edited " out. How did you recover it ? This has happened to me several times , and I figured it was some deficiency with " Auto-Saved " . I am old and lacking computer skills . This intimidates me . I hesitate to contribute because of this . Thanks for helping me if you can. - Carl

That happened because I took too long to compose my post and it timed out on me. I had to sign in again. When I did that a message appeared in the left lower corner of the reply box which says something like "restore previous content". I clicked on that and got most of my original post back. I don't know why it deleted the last part which I had to retype. Possibly hadn't autosaved that part of the text.

Terry

Edited October 28, 2014 by dictator27 (see edit history)

[dictator27]

I am always asking people with classics questions about chassis design especially X-bracesd and cruciform styles (hence my screen name). It is all part of research for a book.

That said, do you know why the 1932-1933 Rockne had a X-brace before Studebaker picked it up late in the game in 1934 (used until 1946 on all their cars) even though Rockne was an offshoot of Studebaker?

In general the X-brace design became popular worldwide c. 1932 due to the introduction of "Floating Power" designed by Chrysler and adopted by many manufacturers to strengthen the frame where engines used to be bolted down directly to the frame or through solid hard rubber blocks.

(BTW... X-bracing was seen once again on Studebakers starting on the 1959 Lark convertibles and later still on Avanti.)

Thanks!

Eric

Can't help with the Rockne, but you should add 1963-66 Studebaker station wagons with the optional sliding roof to your list.

Terry

[benjamin j]

President, vice president, board of directors, and or anyother elected position IS a service position. These trusted servants do notmake decisions they are there to get input from areas and regions. They usethat input to do what the majority of members have intended for them to do. Whentrusted servants do otherwise your bylaws should make it possible to removethem instantly. <o:p></o:p>

If your club does not work through every member in everyarea and region to get to a solution then you will always have these problems. Ithink in this case the bylaws were broken by a few misguided servants. Now the club as a whole will have to fix theproblem. Maybe this will be a good thing in the long run because people will bereminded that the elected positions are service positions. <o:p></o:p>

[dictator27]

Biscayne John, if 2/3 of the club's board can change the

by-laws by themselves, with no discussion or approval by

the thousands of members, YOUR CLUB NEEDS BETTER BY-LAWS!

There should be a mechanism currently existing for MEMBERS to

initiate by-law changes to get those protections in place for the

future--especially if your by-laws incorporate Robert's Rules of Order

by reference.

A few people (the board) should not be allowed such power by themselves!

By-laws are as important as a country's constitution.

Most club members think of them rarely, assuming they are just a formality,

but this situation demonstrates the need for carefully worded by-laws.

Took a look at the Studebaker Drivers Club Bylaws. They state that 2/3 of the BOD can initiate a bylaw change, but they can't approve on their own. It must be approved by 2/3 of the rank and file membership present at a zone or international meet or by 2/3 of the membership which voted for/against a proposed change online.

Terry

[John348]

Hey Guys,

No doubt this Modifed issue has shown some flaws in the VCCA by-laws, but that is a different issue altogehter and something that I am sure will be needed to be addressed after this "Modified" issue is resolved. Our own elected and paid government officials at local, state and federal levels, can make a motion and then vote to approve that change. So it is not unusual for a not for profit club to operate the same way, and many organizations do. All automobile clubs be very similar in structure, but many things are done differently. The past Boards of the VCCA have changed the by-laws many times, and as I had mentioned in an earlier post in this thread by-laws have to be a living document for them to be productive. None of the by-law changes over the past years went against the grain of what the club stood for, until now. Everything had worked very well. Every not for profit club is a business, good managers make sure the business of the club is handled so it can be a club for it's members

The message to be taken from this situation is for everyone who is in a club to pay attention who is running your club! Not one of the members on the current Board of Directors of the VCCA were elected to their position on the board, sadly they were all unopposed. This is a new trend in the club over the past 10 years. When I served as Vice President I had to oversee the club election. I had several instances where I had to recruit members to run for office. The current Board for the VCCA has many members who never went to an Aniversarry Meet (the VCCA's big National Meet every 5 years) let alone a local meet or tour outside of their own region. They don't have a feel for the pulse of the membership. While the Board Members who thought being now a modifed club was a good idea and the membership will just sitback and agree with it, they were dead wrong! The membership does not like idea of this change as evidence by the huge amount of signatures already on the petition,

Got to go to bed now, I am noding off....... good night

Edited October 29, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

I certainly support your cause, John and others, though I don't own any Chevrolets.

For me, it's Buicks more than anything else.

Note that even in our country's representative democracy, despite

its huge size, the MEMBERS (states) must ratify changes to its by-laws

(U. S. Constitution). Such changes must be approved by a supermajority (3/4)

of states, thus ensuring widespread approval. And some vital parts of

the by-laws (constitution--for instance your club's focus on authentic Chevies)

can never be amended. It would be a dangerous short-circuit in the process

if the representatives (U. S. Congress or the President) could change our

by-laws (constitution) entirely on their own will and thereby set us adrift

on an entirely new course!

Aren't checks and balances an important safeguard, whether for a club of 50

or a country of millions!

Edited November 3, 2014 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest]

I certainly support your cause, John and others, though I don't own any Chevrolets.

For me, it's Buicks more than anything else.

It would be a dangerous short-circuit in the process

if the representatives (U. S. Congress or the President) could change our

by-laws (constitution) entirely on their own will and thereby set us adrift

on an entirely new course!

Aren't checks and balances an important safeguard, whether for a club of 50

or a country of millions!

John, as you know or may not know the executive branch of the government especially the supposedly non partisan Justice department has peen politicized many ways to achieve political agendas, such as NOT enforcing the law and the constitution in regards to illegal immigration.

So as you say could, and I say have already set us adrift on a entirely new course

[55chevy]

Please dont get this sidetracked on US politics, even though the similarity exists. It's been an interesting thread to read, although I haven't been too involved in national clubs, other than the Classic Chevy Club way back when. It was bought out by a for profit business, and they did accept non original cars, but I do agree the VCCA should have the right to be a all original club if they want, there are plenty of modified clubs out there. Heck, more and more the local clubs are running local car shows, many are open to all cars, of any year. So many local shows and cruise ins I go to have a bunch of new 2005 and up Mustangs, Camaros and Corvettes, my wife is always asking why are these cars here? I suppose as us old fart guys kick the bucket the love of originality will die with us, and the newer generation of car nuts will like their pre 72 cars to have AC, 4 wheel disc brakes, and computer controlled engines.

What about safety? My 56 Chevy Bel Air stops a lot better with a dual master cylinder, oh no, I modified it! Disc brakes? What heresy, burn him at the stake! Sorry for you old grumpy men that have nothing more to complain about than modified cars in your club. Chill out, you'll live longer.

[John348]

I am confused by your post, the first paragraph you agree with the members right to maintain the club they joined and then the next one,,,??

I think we have done pretty good as club if "us grumpy old men" ( I am younger then you think) can only find this one to complain about in the club

Edited November 4, 2014 by Biscayne John (see edit history)

[R W Burgess]

What about safety? My 56 Chevy Bel Air stops a lot better with a dual master cylinder, oh no, I modified it! Disc brakes? What heresy, burn him at the stake! .........

You keep overlooking the fact that VCCA has never been a "street rod" club, just as the host of this web site, the AACA has never been a "modified club". Safety factors are interested in large numbers, those large number of modern cars on the highway each day. Stock antique vehicles are very seldom considered daily drivers and are perfectly safe for the small amount of use that they undergo.

As a youngster, I have done some stupid things while driving cars. I grew up. Most antique drivers use extra caution while sharing the roads with modern cars. That's why our insurance rates are lower and we have few accidents.

Wayne

Edited November 4, 2014 by R W Burgess (see edit history)

[Guest]

You keep overlooking the fact that VCCA has never been a "street rod" club, just as the host of this web site, the AACA has never been a "modified club". Safety factors are interested in large numbers, those large number of modern cars on the highway each day. Stock antique vehicles are very seldom considered daily drivers and are perfectly safe for the small amount of use that they undergo.

As a youngster, I have done some stupid things while driving cars. I grew up. Most antique drivers use extra caution while sharing the roads with modern cars. That's why our insurance rates are lower and we have few accidents.

Wayne

I agree with you Wayne when it comes to AACA at the national level, but AACA lets chapters have events/shows and local tours where modified cars are allowed by a specific chapter and this I do NOT agree with. When it comes to safety when driving a antique car (25 and older) , especially if you have done the work restoring it you will have a different attitude on the road or where it's parked for that matter.

[John348]

I agree 100% you have to be aware of the capabilities of the machine you are operating, just as much as making sure those systems are able operate properly when needed. That is part of the respect and appreciation for the history of the vehicle you are operating, which I guess all falls under "restoration and preservation."

Don't get me started on the misuse of the word "restoration"

[R W Burgess]

I agree with you Wayne when it comes to AACA at the national level, but AACA lets chapters have events/shows and local tours where modified cars are allowed by a specific chapter and this I do NOT agree with. ......

Helfen, AACA National listens to its regions and chapters. AACA National guides the local regions/chapters, but does not dictate to them. Much like the states of this great nation, local states/clubs know more about what works in their areas.

On another note, the Antique Automobile Club of America has as its challenge to educate and promote our hobby. Locally we do not care what kind of vehicle you have, or even if you have no antique cars. Our mission is to show you what we have to offer, and to do our best to offer folks the fun of enjoying unmolested antique cars. After all, we all love cars of many different kinds.

Wayne

[Steve_Mack_CT]

yep, not to go too far astray although related, I agree with Helfen's stance on all AACA activities. Kind of come around on that as our local show has always made it a point to be "all inclusive" with spots for modifieds as well as moderns (i.e. someone with a new Corvette, for example) - modifieds judged in a few specific classes, and moderns popular vote but participants in that class. I used to think this was good overall, and without a doubt it has added to show participation, but at the cost of making our show unique.

After a few years I do not believe it has had any impact on AACA national or local membership at all. No one really knows how to best judge a modified using our system - we just ignore taste, etc. and go on workmanship - but more important no one in the club wants that task! Also we have had space issues in our venue, annoying all classes in certain years, as well as some misbehavior on the road when leaving the show which reflects on us with the town, etc. I would change it but I am in the minority in our region, so I think that policy stands for the long haul. Funny as the same guys who insist on the modifieds fight about who gets "stuck" judging them year over year. All in the name of growth and show income.

Personally, I would love to see all AACA events follow the same rules, but given the general direction of things, that is unlikely. I do enviison the line holding at the national level though, which helps makes events like the Hershey show timeless.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Guest]

Helfen, AACA National listens to its regions and chapters. AACA National guides the local regions/chapters, but does not dictate to them. Much like the states of this great nation, local states/clubs know more about what works in their areas.

On another note, the Antique Automobile Club of America has as its challenge to educate and promote our hobby. Locally we do not care what kind of vehicle you have, or even if you have no antique cars. Our mission is to show you what we have to offer, and to do our best to offer folks the fun of enjoying unmolested antique cars. After all, we all love cars of many different kinds.

Wayne

Wayne, with all due respect to you and AACA I will say this. First in regards to federal government; The federal government trumps state law. Second, AACA either accepts or denies new chapter request. AACA does have control over what chapters do, if not a chapter could cause AACA great harm. AACA can revoke a chapter.....I have seen this. It's up to AACA to enforce it's standards for uniformity so that whatever contact someone has they are getting the same message. It seems AACA only gets involved when someone in the national club has a hot interest. Letting a chapter do own thing leads to confusion within AACA and to someone on the outside looking in. I have made my position known about John and VCCA and I hope he and others of his club can have their club back. As far as AACA goes, it seems at least with the local chapters..the modified folks already have a foot in the door. This confuses a prospective AACA member.

[R W Burgess]

.............. Second, AACA either accepts or denies new chapter request. AACA does have control over what chapters do, if not a chapter could cause AACA great harm. AACA can revoke a chapter.....I have seen this. It's up to AACA to enforce it's standards for uniformity so that whatever contact someone has they are getting the same message. ................

Helfen, I have been an AACA Board member for 4 years now. I have been involved with AACA regions and chapters on the National level. Send me a pm with your e-mail address and I can explain exactly what the Board does and does not do.

Sorry to high jack your thread Biscayne John!

Wayne

[John348]

Wayne, no problem this all sort of ties together. Heflin has brought up a good point, when regions loose their identity to the parent club that is when the problems can begin.