Brakes 27' Hupmobile

[Guest]

Greetings,<P>Anybody seen the brakes on a 27' Hup? I have<BR>yet to see brakes of this style on any other make during this period. This is a low mileage car with only 27k original miles...I'm sure they were not easy miles back then.<P>I have not had pedal for quite sometime. This <BR>car is all original and has been stored inside for the last 30 years, so it's no doubt that their is an issue. By the way, these brakes are Hydralic NOT MECHANICAL. The brakes themselves are the external type and wrap around the drum and come together to apply pressure to the drums. Essentially these brakes are exposed to the elements. I have had them apart years ago and they are a real bugger to work on.<P>I have not begun taking the system apart<BR>as I would prefer to have my home work done<BR>before proceeding. I'm sure that the master<BR>cylinder is toast as possibly the wheel<BR>cylinders...funny thing is that I have no<BR>leaks...I live in Colorado and the relative <BR>Humidity is usually 12% to 25% most of the <BR>year with exceptions, however, the posibility<BR>of moisture contamination should the system<BR>be "open" may have caused considerable pitting and rust damage. Of course I will not <BR>know this until I begin dismantling the system so this is speculation on my part.<P>None-the-less, the questions are as such:<BR>1) Can I find all the parts necessary?<BR>2) If so, where?<BR>3) Has anybody heard of White Post Restorations? Are they reputable?<BR>Their prices seem rather high, however,<BR>they can do it and the guarantee is excellent. They discuss putting brass or <BR>bronze sleeves in the cylinders, can any <BR>one offer comment on this process?<BR>4)The shoes look great, should we replace <BR>them? We intend on putting the car on the road but will not be doing any long distance <BR>driving.<BR>5)If we find rust in the system there is a <BR>good chance that the steel lines are contaminated as well. Shall we replace them or is there a chemical process we could use<BR>to clean them up and reuse the existing lines? Also, the existing rubber lines <BR>are quite cracked and checked, I hesitate<BR>in not replacing them but can they be re-<BR>manufactured to be period correct with out <BR>looking like a mordern areoquip line?<P>I'm sure I will a have more question as <BR>time progress'. Thanking you in advance <BR>for your comments and or suggetions.<P>A. Nichols

[D Binger]

Colorado huh - - I live just up the road. I have a box of wheel cylinder rebuild kits. Might be able to match up your old cups with some new ones.<P>Dan

[ply33]

My guess is your actual brakes are of the "Lockheed" type and that most repair items are still available. I know I was able to get all the parts I needed for a 1933 Plymouth. And most of the individual pieces for the hydraulics on a 1928 Plymouth are the same as later cars.<P>That is the same general era as your car, so I expect your car is similar. (By the way, some early Chryslers had external contracting bands actuated by hydraulic cylinders.)<P>I have found that going to a good brake supply store (not an auto supply store) I was able to get all the rebuilding parts needed for all wheel cylinders, the master cylinder, all the banjo fittings, hoses and new tubing (long enough to run the length of the frame with no fittings).<P>As a mater of course I would recommend replacing all the brake lines. Old brake fluid is hydrophyllic (spell checker please!) and will have absorbed water causing rust on the inside of the tubing. On a car that old there is almost certain to be some areas where the tubing has been weakened to the point of being unsafe.

[Guest]

Tod, indeed you are correct, these are the Lockheed type. was under the car and noticed that the brake lines appear to be copper. Still think that I should replace the lines? I'm going to take you up on the on the brake supply store and see what I can find. Are <BR>the wheel cylinders Lockheed? can't see any stamp or cast on them. I had them apart back in the 70's but I can't remember.<P>Thanx,<P>A. Nichols<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TodFitch:<BR><B>My guess is your actual brakes are of the "Lockheed" type and that most repair items are still available. I know I was able to get all the parts I needed for a 1933 Plymouth. And most of the individual pieces for the hydraulics on a 1928 Plymouth are the same as later cars.<P>That is the same general era as your car, so I expect your car is similar. (By the way, some early Chryslers had external contracting bands actuated by hydraulic cylinders.)<P>I have found that going to a good brake supply store (not an auto supply store) I was able to get all the rebuilding parts needed for all wheel cylinders, the master cylinder, all the banjo fittings, hoses and new tubing (long enough to run the length of the frame with no fittings).<P>As a mater of course I would recommend replacing all the brake lines. Old brake fluid is hydrophyllic (spell checker please!) and will have absorbed water causing rust on the inside of the tubing. On a car that old there is almost certain to be some areas where the tubing has been weakened to the point of being unsafe.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

[ply33]

Copper brake lines scare me. <span style="font-weight: bold">Most copper tubing sold in this country is a soft alloy not designed for the pressures found in a brake system.</span><P>Relatively recently (last 10, maybe 15 years) a copper alloy tubing suitable for brake lines has been available. It is designed for the pressures found in the system and is also less prone to corrosion than steel. It is used in a lot of new cars and I used it in the rebuild of my old car. I believe it is called "Cunifer" (Cu - Copper, Ni - Nickel, Fe - Iron). Cunifer has a dull copper tone to it.<P>The trick is figuring out it your copper pipes are the good new stuff or something someone picked up in a hardware store. I don't know how to do that with certainty.<P>New from the store the Cunifer tubing handles about the same as traditional steel tubing. It seems to take about the same effort on the tubing bender and flaring tool to to the work. I know that the hardware store variety of copper tubing is much softer initially but can work harden over time. An old piece of hardware store tubing may be as hard to work with as Cunifer. I don't know.<P>To tell them apart, I suspect that if you really work at polishing up a section of tube that the Cunifer will not shine up as much. But that is not a test I would be willing to trust my life to. And you do trust your life to your brakes.<P>New tubing is cheap. If it is at all possible to install new tubing, do it. On my car there were places where I could only get the new tubing in if the body was off the frame. Fortunately I had the body off the frame <P>As to the Lockheed name. I don't recall "Lockheed" being found on any metal brake parts on my car. It could be that some of the rubber parts originally had it. But those had, no doubt, been replaced over the years. I suspect that the design was licensed and everyone who used it simply noted it in the literature.

[Guest]

Tod,<P>Again, thanx for the response. Realize one <BR>thing...this car is original and has not <BR>been fudged with and is in very excellent <BR>condition, therfore, if what I'm seeing is <BR>truly copper, it's the real old stuff. I'm<BR>gonna crawl under this beast this weekend <BR>and take some scotchbrite to a section<BR>and see what becomes of it...just to really<BR>determine if this is copper. I must say that<BR>it does look as if you went to the hardware<BR>store and put the brake lines together...the flare fittings and the "T's" look right out of ACE is the Place!<P>Everything appears to be so "clean" in the <BR>set up, ie; the plumbing and the simplicity.<BR>I did'nt have confidence in tackling this <BR>and the more I discuss it, the more I'm prone<BR>to just dismantle one section at a time<BR>and review the part and push forward. Do <BR>you know if the master is rebuildable?<BR>I have the hones but need the parts and <BR>I feel strongly I can get them know.<BR>I received an Email from an AACA member<BR>in Wyoming that has wheel cylinder cups<BR>but not master cylinder parts...I'll<BR>work on those based upon your earlier memo.<P>later<BR>A.nichols<BR>