jonlabree Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Ronnie is correct. You will see no difference if you “Spin the engine with a drill".The reason that the spinning used to be necessary was because when you built a new engine you had some oil on the cranks and rod bearings but to get it moving we used to spin the oil pump with a drill and that got oil to all of the engine parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 That was back in the day when you could remove the distributer and just use an old shaft to spin the oil pump. On a 3800 you have to spin the crank to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 By spinning the crank you are defeating the purpose. The object is to get the oil up to the crank and rod and cam bearings without turning over the engine on dry surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 IF I felt a need to pre-lube a used 3800, which I don't, I would modify a pump up sprayer with a fitting so I could connect it to the port where the oil pressure sender screws in and pressurize it that way instead of trying to turn the engine to build pressure. I've not tried it but it should be possible to do that quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Interesting. The only way to pressurize the system would be with an accumulator of some sort, actually simple to build, but I don't see how turning the engine at starter speeds under limited load from the weight and drag of the pistons only, would be more harmful than cranking it over under compression load assuming it will start immediately? Granted I haven't opened up hundreds of engines, but the ones I have, always had oil in the bearings when taken apart, even with years of storage. If I understood the original point of priming this engine before installation was to be certain it was sound prior to the work of installation? If a person could be reasonably assured that all was well and it was stored properly, I agree completely that just starting the engine should work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) The sprayer idea I mentioned would essentially be an accumulator that would pressurize the bearings. I have primed engines in the past. I think I still have an old small block distributor somewhere with the gear and spark advance removed for that purpose if it didn't get thrown out when we moved the last time. I only used it on newly rebuilt engines that had lots of dry parts like rocker arms etc. that normally only get lubricated until the engine starts. I just don't see a need for that on a used engine where those parts have been bathed in oil for years. I don't think it would hurt anything but like 2seater said, every engine that I have torn down had oil in the bearings when I took it apart.If I were installing a used engine I would spend the time and money to replace all the gaskets and seals that I could. Replace the freeze plugs, water pump and anything else that's hard to get to that wears out. I would also do a leak down test to try to determine if I needed to pull the heads. Just my 2 cents. Edited June 28, 2013 by Ronnie (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Ronnie, I do like the pump sprayer idea, for many reasons. I have made pressure brake bleeders in the past with pvc pipe, caps, air fitting and quick disconnect but wouldn't want to cross contaminate with oil. A reservoir that can be pressurized for lubing, flushing or simply a reservoir is a handy thing to have, no matter what the use. I am getting off topic but need to credit where it is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I also have a distributer shaft with gear that fits my 1/2" drill form olden tmes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) To all,I've been out in the garage, busy with the NAR engine. I'll post later with pics of the progress. It takes some time to re-size the shots and put them in a folder for uploading. Haven't figured out a way to make the camera take the shots "internet ready". I already have it set to its lowest quality setting an still the files are too large to post. Anyway... I too had the thought of using some sort of accumulator like device to pressurize the lube system so, I used my handy Ace Hardware lawn sprayer to do just that. The time/date stamps on the pics will show that this was done prior to the above posts. (Again, fine minds think alike). You may remember the sprayer that I converted for use as a pressure bleeder for the brakes. I never got around to using it for that purpose but I did use it as an axillary fuel pump/tank when the fuel pump went out on my truck. I re-purposed it as an oil pump to get oil into the crank and galleys. I did this prior to turning the engine over with the starter. I did all this because I didn't want any surprises once I bolted the engine into the car.More later, with pics.John F. Edited June 29, 2013 by Machiner 55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) To all,I know some of you are patiently waiting for an update but, I've been extremely busy here as of late.As I mentioned earlier, my son is opening a home brewers supply store with a grand opening of July 6th and I've been doing what I can to help him and his wife out.I tried to put together some descriptive text to accompany these pics but it's taking me forever (as it usually does).So, I'm just putting the photos out there. If someone has a specific questions regarding any of them, I try to answer as quickly as possible. I've also tried to put them in chronological order. I've got two more days off before heading back to work. I just might be able to get the engines swapped out in that time. We'll see.One more thing. The remaining pics in this set are in the next two posts.Hope I don't get in some kind of trouble for taking up all the server space. John F. Edited July 5, 2013 by Machiner 55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) More pics. Edited July 5, 2013 by Machiner 55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) The last six pics in this set. (plus two)These two were supposed to be in the previous post.After I got it all together, I have all the nuts and bolts and stuff left over. I hope they aren't important.John F. Edited July 5, 2013 by Machiner 55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Did you clean up the exhaust manifold collector hole ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 Padgett,That would be pic #5 of 20 in post #131.John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 I've got two more days off before heading back to work. I just might be able to get the engines swapped out in that time. We'll see.Well... this is as far as I got today. I just ran out of steam and decided not to rush the swap. John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 John F - "The Knock" is one of the most interesting threads to appear on the Forum in a long time and you have covered it extremely well. Fortunately, you seem to have overcome your reticence to use "Submit" button! One for the books, thank you. Kingsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Great photos! The best photos I've seen that demonstrates the alignment of the crankshaft position sensor in relation to the shutter ring. It would be nice if we all had tools like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 1.)John F - "The Knock" is one of the most interesting threads to appear on the Forum in a long time and you have covered it extremely well. Fortunately, you seem to have overcome your reticence to use "Submit" button! One for the books, thank you. Kingsley2.)Great photos! The best photos I've seen that demonstrates the alignment of the crankshaft position sensor in relation to the shutter ring. It would be nice if we all had tools like that.1.) Kingsley,I'm not over my reticence but, just think how wonderful it would be if I was! 2.) Ronnie,You can copy any pics you want to if you think you can use them and...The tool that I used to align the CPS anyone can have . All one needs is a used Harmonic Balancer. John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 2.) Ronnie,You can copy any pics you want to if you think you can use them and...The tool that I used to align the CPS anyone can have . All one needs is a used Harmonic Balancer. John F.Thanks John, Lots of good photos there that can be used to help others when they have problems. I like the way you used the pressure sprayer to lubricate the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Ron,The best 10 bux I ever spent. Aux fuel tank, Pressure bleeder and now an oil pump. Some day I may even use it to spray the lawn!I wanted to be able to flush the lubrication system with fresh oil because the oil that was in the pan when I got it was pretty dark. I also wanted to be sure oil was getting everywhere it needed to go and this seemed to be the best way to go about it.After doing this, I temporarily mounted the oil pan and used the starter to "run" the engine. As you can see in the one pic, it shows a pressure gauge reading about 48 psi. I was really happy with that.John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Photo update to the engine swap.John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 It's in. It's finally in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Nicely done. Excellent photos. Thanks for the specific pics of the timing chain which illustrates what I was trying to convey. The aftermarket stuff just isn't up to the OE standard. Water over the dam now, but you could have removed the lower portion of the O2 sensor boss too, but the amount cleaned up will be fine. Thanks for the fine update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 It's alive! It's Really Alive!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 It's alive! It's Really Alive!!!Congrats Dr F. The villagers will now be waiting with torches and pitchforks. Seriously, nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) John F - we always need a bit of humor - would it be appropriate now for a "Knock, Knock" joke?On the serious side, the post and threads are one of the most informative one I have recently seen. The subject is one that is of interest to most everyone and the photos are icing on the cake. Kingsley Edited July 22, 2013 by Kingsley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Congrats. Makes it all worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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