1935EB

Paint colors for 1933 Plymouth PD Convertible Coupe

390 posts in this topic

Guy's,

My brother and I have taken this Plymouth to the restoration shop for painting. We pulled the engine and now the rolling chassis and body are ready for re finnishing. This is a restoration back to original.

At this stage the first questions are these:

1. Are the frame, springs, axles, etc glossy black?

2. The firewall and cowl that now show red primer are to be black on all 1933 PD Plymouths from the hood belt lacing forward. Is this black glossy, semi gloss or flat? Is it just dark gray primer?

3. We want to paint the body and sheet metal an original color. I thought I saw where these cars were available in a dark tan color with red pin stripe and red wire wheels. I am not refering to the Chrysler Light Gray with Packard Ivory pin stripe and wheels. When I look at the Ply33 website it shows a Durode Gray. Is this a tan with a grayish green cast to it or is it gray?

4. The door and body hinge and lock pillars and door sill will be body color but what about the rest of the inside of the body?

5. I have been told the dash board is to be body color and not wood grained like the other closed cars?

We appreciate anyone's input on this project. For the Chrysler purest please ignore the Chevy sheet metal you see lying arround as this is another project.

Thanks, Chris

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You've obviously found my web site so you know most of what I know about how it should be.

Unfortunately I've not seen enough original cars to state if, for example, the firewall should be a glossy black or a flat black. Most of the restored cars I've seen went with gloss. I did my chassis and running gear with gloss black and with the road dirt, etc. it does not look out of place. But again, it could be that the factory used a flat black.

I did get paint samples made up years ago of a few of the colors I was considering for my car. I don't remember which one but one of the gray colors had a definite green tint to my eye.

Regarding interior color, yes the dash of an open car should be body color. On my two door sedan all the rest of the interior metal is covered with upholstery so it did not much matter what color the metal under it was. Mine happens to be primer and over spray. :)

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Nice PD. I have the remnants of a 33 PD convertible body, doors and back only, but the best I can tell you about the interior color is that it appears to be plain metal, perhaps with some sort of metal treatment on it, which is what my 34 PE convertible has on it. I do have a 34 PE convertible firewall with the original paint still on it (you can tell it is a convertible because it has the unique convertible number series stamped up by the coil hole) and it appears to be a gloss black or, at the very least, a semi gloss.

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Posted (edited)

The frame and firewall were done in 'chassis black' which is a semi gloss. They did not use the expensive high gloss body paint on the chassis. However today I would use high gloss body paint on the firewall and use chassis black from NAPA etc. for the frame and running gear. It depends on what time of year your car was made as to the colors available for the body. Chysler Plymouth kept changing their mind as the year went on and some colors were available at certain times and then they would be withdrawn. And then added back in! For most of the year black was only available on the business coupe. Then they changed their minds and you could have black on any body style in the De Luxe line as long as you ordered a 'car load',4 or more automobiles. You could have the 'fenders and sheet metal' to match the body for $10. This price went up and down like a yoyo. And then lo and behold on May 8/1933 the Convertible Coupe's standard body color was black with Casino Red wheels with the optional color being Durode Gray with Vermillion wheels. Then just to confuse everybody they passed a 'law' that all vehicle orders received for the 'light colors' on the De Luxe line will be shipped with body color painted fenders and sheet metal regardless. And the 'usual charge of $10 list will be added to the invoice'. However orders received for the Standard line (PC) will still be shipped with black fenders and sheet metal unless 'specifically ordered painted fenders'. Black wheels all of a sudden became optional at no cost on both the De Luxe and Standard lines. This 'new color program' will be in place on the 15th on May 1933. All orders whether received before that date or after will be painted according to the new program. Natural finish wood wheels will no longer be available on either line after this date. The Convertible Coupe was 'upholstered in waterproof flat mohair with leather optional at no extra cost'. The 2 light colors available were Nassau Green and Durode Gray. The NEXT DAY on May 9th 1933 they issued another Bulletin saying that now any color in the CPDD kit could be ordered for $30 plus $10 for painted fenders and sheet metal. Your Convertible Coupe remained Black with Casino Red wheels and Black fenders and sheet metal. The body stripe was Vermillion. Optional color remained Durode Gray with Vermillion wheels and Durode Gray fenders and sheet metal. The body stripe was Vermillion also. On Aug 5th 1933 they passed another 'law' that all PCs,now called the Standard line, could no longer have anything but black fenders and sheet meat regardless. Hope this helps. Have fun.

Edited by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

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Thanks Guy's,

As my Grandmother used to say, "clear as mud".

DodgeKCL what is the supporting documentation that shows the CPDD colors option? Are these sales and marketing department letters to the dealers? There are some great Dodge, Desoto, and Chrysler combinations that I really like.

Having said that we also like the tan with vermillion stripe and wheels.

Chris

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Posted (edited)

Original Plymouth Bulletins to the dealers. I was thinking about it all last night and I came across a theory to determine what color a '33 Convertible Coupe was originally. The dash was painted the body color. So regardless of what the body color is now, the dash color or the most 'lowest' or 'first' color of the dash,after scraping,would be the original body color. This cannot be done with closed cars because all the dashes and metal window mouldings were fake woodgrain. You might also find the original color inside the doors or under upholstery somewhere. It appears under 'normal' circumstances your Convertible Coupe was either black,gray or green. With black or red wheels. But if the original dealer or buyer wanted something else, for $40 ($30+$10) it could of been any color in the CPDD factory.

Edited by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

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post-89602-143141799316_thumb.jpgWhile it doesn't help much on convertibles (although they may have been marked as well) you often find factory chalk marks on the inside of closed cars, setting forth the body style (here, a 34 PE business coupe) and the color (the light metallic gray, 'gray metal light'). This was marked on the right rear of the top, to the side of the rear window.

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This is what the dealers got from Chrysler Plymouth to tell them what they could order at that point in time. The Plymouth Owners club calls their mag the 'Plymouth Bulletin' after these.

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This is what the dealers got from Chrysler Plymouth to tell them what they could order at that point in time. The Plymouth Owners club calls their mag the 'Plymouth Bulletin' after these.

I sure would like copies of those '33 dealer bulletins. Willing to pay for your time and expense in making the copies too...

That one was particularly interesting as it was issued about 6 or 7 weeks before my car was built and lists the standard color for my body style as limousine blue. I had already been pretty confident that my car was originally limousine blue through other research. Interesting to see the correlation.

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DodgeKCL,

This information is as good as it gets. I would like to have copies as well.

In looking at the Standard colors: black, gray (durode gray?, green (nassau green or bahama green?).

Chris

I am surprised Keiser31 has not commented on this yet.

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Does this help this one back in high school one owner could have been

painted back in the 1940s but the dash was body color pebble grain

seats.

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GK1918,

Gives you a good idea how these look in a solid color. I do not know if that is Empire Maroon but it looks close.

Chris

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While it doesn't help much on convertibles (although they may have been marked as well) you often find factory chalk marks on the inside of closed cars, setting forth the body style (here, a 34 PE business coupe) and the color (the light metallic gray, 'gray metal light'). This was marked on the right rear of the top, to the side of the rear window.

The 1933-34 Ply convertible factory chalk paint markings are found on the right door, under the upholstery

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The attached photo shows the right (passenger) door. The earlier "fix it up" effort in the seventies has coverered this up. I will try the Chrysler Historical Archives as I have the S/N for this car.

The exact paint combination is important but I may not refinnish in the color it was manufactured with. I will be keeping to an available color for '33 PD Plymouth.

Leaning to the gray tan that is either "Durode Gray" or "Plymouth Gray". The pin stripe and wheel color to be red.

Does anyone recall if the Durode Gray is gray gray or gray tan? It seems when Chrysler calls it gray it is really a shade of tan.

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Posted (edited)

From Plymouth Color Bulletin No. 4, Plymouth Motor Corp.,Colors for 1933 Models. E.I. Du Pont De Nemours & co. Inc. Issued Sept. 15/1933 Durode Gray/246-30349. Mix 26.5 fl. oz of 246-0091 White + 4 5/8 fl. oz. of 246-020 Black + 7/16 fl. oz. of 246-071 Medium light green + 1 3/8 fl. oz. of Ferrite yellow= 32 15/16 fl. oz. of Durode Gray. Maybe take this to a friendly understanding paint store and have it mixed in a small amount of any paint and see what the color looks like. The chip I have looks like a dark green!

Edited by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

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Here are some new pictures from the restoration shop.post-86357-143141876114_thumb.jpgI will post more when I get the chance. There is some serious rust out in cowl. The PPG colors are still being researched by paint dealer. This car will probably be Durode Gray with red wheels and pinstripes.

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Can someone also let me know what the numbers are that are just to the right of the coil hole? These were covered by paint formally. Chris

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Can someone also let me know what the numbers are that are just to the right of the coil hole? These were covered by paint formally. Chris

Without seeing the number close up, I would guess that it is the body number.

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post-86357-143141885446_thumb.jpgOur car is a convertible coupe and these photos show the Stainless Steel window trim, diagonal cross brace, etc, not found on a coupe or sedan. I have some questions. I am missing the lower window channel parts from one of the window frames, the one that holds the bottom of the glass and also accommodates the rollers for the roll up mechanism. My question is this, I know the diagonal support is not on a coupe or sedan but is the channel the same as a coupe or sedan? I could splice two of these together to make one for the convertible. My other question concerns the top of the door moulding support strip, shown in lower part of photos. The top of the door moulding is attached to this strip with four nickel plated screws. The door mouldings for coupes and sedans appears to be the same, maybe shorter but if they are the same than the door moulding mounting strip might be the same. I could splice two together to make this piece for the convertible? Let me know if you have seen ones on a coupe or sedan or know of any that might be available from a parts door. I also think the 1934 models are the same even though the door moulding itself is different from 1933.Thanks Chris

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post-86357-14314189089_thumb.jpgI posted the colors on another thread also but include them here as well. These are PPG paints. Left photo is full sun, right photo is shade. They are both tans. The Chrysler Light Gray is on the left (used with Packard Ivory pin stripe and wheels) The Durode Gray is on the right used with Vermillion Red pin stripe and wheels. The Durode Gray has an olive tint to it. Both are attractive colors! Size of color chip is 5 x 7 inches. The cowl is shown with a clearer view of the 3944 stamped into it. Keiser31 believes this to be the body number. Would this mean the 3944th convertible coupe body manufactured?

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It could very well be. But it belongs to the body maker not Chrysler Plymouth. You should have an aluminum plate with BODY NUMBER and MODEL on it attached to the firewall. This has some of the Plymouth line data on it. The MODEL will say TPCE or CONVCP or something like that. The BODY NUMBER will be the actual Plymouth factory number BUT will not be the consecutive convertible coupe number. As far as I know they just stamped on the next number in sequence for the body number. In other words your car body could be 1046 and the next sedan would be 1047. The right hand front door jamb,front or rear post, had a 4" aluminum plate mounted on it's side with the SERIAL NUMBER on it. This is the equivalent to the modern VIN. Some place on the frame this SERIAL NUMBER is duplicated but there is some discussion as to where it actually is. I'd be interested if you find it on the frame and where it was.

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Couple of quick items: First, I believe I have the parts you need for your 33 window frames. You have my number so give me a call. On the number stamped next to the coil hole, that number is different from the car serial number and, according to the people I have talked to, those were sequential from 1933 through 1934 on the convertible coupe bodies. They don't seem to show up anywhere else in those number ranges. My convertible has the same type of number stamped on it, as does an original firewall from another convertible. I seem to recall that there is somebody in the Plymouth club that has been collecting information on this number sequence, attempting to catalog all of the remaining convertibles. Looks like you are making progress!!

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post-86357-143141902704_thumb.jpgWork is progressing. We encountered a good deal of "bondo" in the cowl and wheel wells. The holes will be cut out with new sheet metal welded back in. Right now in the wheel wells all the rust and "bondo" are out and what you see is repair from the previous owner many years ago. The body man has a lot to do to put this back in order. As to the firewall. You knew this question was coming. Which of these holes do not belong? I know the two holes underneath the builders tags are not from Chrysler. The former owners mounted a horn relay or voltage relay on top of the plates. What other holes do not belong????? Enjoy, Chris

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post-86357-143141904503_thumb.jpgThis is probably a better way to do this. The holes with circles are "suspect". These will need to be welded closed. There are a number of other holes that are nicely drilled and some dimples that I think are original. Any help in determining the "suspect holes" correctness is appreciated. As the restoration moves forward this firewall will be painted black and the holes will not show up well. We will see this again later on as we determine what the holes are for. Some are obvious others are not. Thanks, Chris

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Posted (edited)

Don't forget this cowl was used for right hand and left hand drive. That's why the 2 big cutouts for the steering column. Whichever side was used ,the other steering column hole was covered by a plate held by 2 screws. As for the Plymouth logo plate, there should be 2 holes for it about 4 " apart and ,either below it or to the side of it, another 2 small holes about 2" apart for the 'body number/model' ID plate. There isn't much else mounted on the firewall just through it. Such as the coil,choke and throttle control cables ,top right side, (through a 'square' rubber grommet) and the freewheeling/vacuum operated clutch cable,left side. If the holes look 'clean' like they were punched out they most likely are original whether used on your particular model or not. This was common practice. There were also the holes ,6 I believe, for the snaps that held the firewall insulation on the driver's side of the firewall. You do seem to be missing the 2 ugly holes that the dealer gouged through the firewall to hook up the heater hoses. Heaters were usually installed by a moron at the dealer just before delivery. Most of the holes I've seen seemed to have be chewed out by a large rat.

Edited by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

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