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Scooter Guy

Forall Scooter

17 posts in this topic

This is a longshot, but it never hurts to ask...

I'm looking for good photos or a diagram on how the brake is mounted on a 1959 Forall Motor Scooter. I know I have all the parts and that the cable is hooked up correctly (it works), but where or what does the "non-cable" end of the brake attach to? There has to be something, but I can't determine the location of any mounting point and the images I have don't have enough detail for me to see where this goes.

Also, I know there is a tube or hose that connects the air filter to the carb. Photos and information on what this is supposed to be like would be highly appreciated. It is the only part on my entire machine that I'm missing.

Mine is a late model (1959) with the whizzer gas tank, cast aluminum belt guard, chrome bicycle handlebars and gooseneck, and the "version 2" floor board. These were a bit different than the early models from 1957 and 1958, but any help would be appreciated.

Here's a late Forall like mine:

post-61234-143139203013_thumb.jpg

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Ok, I figured out the brake mount.

I know nobody is really reading this thread, but I'll close the loop on that one anyway...there is a small hole through one of the frame "cross members" that the end of the brake band bolts to. It was gunked up with grease and road grime. Once it was cleaned off...lo and behold! There it was.

Now I just need to keep it from dragging...hmmmm.

Also, I think the air filter tube mentioned earlier is just a length of romex but that there is some kind of 90 degree elbow (possibly?) at the bottom of the carb for it to clamp on to.

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Scooter Guy;

I and a number of Crosley people read this area every day. We just don't know anything about your scooters. Now ask something about Crosleys and we will chime in!!!

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Dave is right. I read your posting because I never heard of Forall scooter and wanted to know about it.

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Well, in that case, I suppose it's worth posting what little info I know about the Forall Scooter...

The Forall was produced from 1957-1959 by Bob Baugh and the Illinois Foundry in Springfield, Illinois. Baugh was the owner of the foundry which was apparently one of the largest in Illinois though by the mid to late 1950s it had apparently fallen on hard times and much of the property was sitting idle. The story is that Baugh saw the remains of a Doodle Bug Scooter around town and borrowed it from the owner in order to use it as a basis to create his own scooter. He later thanked that person by gifting him the first Forall Scooter off the line.

He took the Doodle Bug Scooter back to his plant and slightly redesigned it. It was enlarged (compared to a Doodle Bug) by about 1/3, which some Doodle Bug parts being direct bolt-ons for early model Forall Scooters, such as the handlebars and gas tank. A distinguishing feature of the Forall was the cast aluminum floorboard and (on later models) a cast aluminum belt guard.

The later model, as shown above, is what mine is. Both the floor board and belt guard are cast aluminum, the handlebars and gooseneck are adapted from bicycle parts and are chrome, and the gas tank mounted on the cross bar is from Whizzer. The control system is slightly different on a Forall than a Doodle Bug and is not intuitive. Throttle is left and brake is right. They are not spring operated, so the throttle and brake both have to be manually opened and closed...kinda dangerous if you asked me. They use bicycle shift lever style controllers. The rear band brake is made from a section of V-belt that rubs against the rear hub, rather primitive braking! The engine is a 2 1/2 hp Tecumseh / Lauson that is all aluminum and has a mercury clutch running to a countershaft, just as on the Doodle Bug Scooter. The late 1950s what an interesting time in small engine history as well, as Tecumseh bought up Lauson, dismantled the company, and continued using the name. However, early Tecumseh era Lauson engines said both Tecumseh and Lauson on them (this one does). These days both Tecumseh and Lauson are gone.

It is thought that there were 1800-2500 total scooters built and that all sold new for $189. One source indicates that these may have been sold through Macy's, but I've been unable to confirm. There are no traces of a dealer network whatsoever. Unlike the Doodle Bug, these were marketed as more utilitarian scooters for adults to ride. Baugh tried a "fleet" approach to selling these to factories, cities, police departments, etc. but that ultimately failed. I suspect that one reason why is because the design was rather low-tech and primitive for the late 1950s. They were slow and not nearly as stylish as a Cushman, Vespa, or Sears Allstate (Puch) motorcycle. It is also said that legislation in Illinois meant the end of the Forall which was suddenly deemed not street legal for lack of registration, insurance, and lights/safety items.

Bob Baugh's son, was a noted hot rodder and drag racer in the 1960s and 1970s, but apparently had no interest in the Foundry once his father died.

It's an interesting, rather obscure piece of scooter history. My interest in them come from their connection to the Doodle Bug Scooter.

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I check in here several times a week, at the minimum. I love old scooters, though all I have right now is a Whizzer and a Benelli MoPed that I bought new in 1984. I've had many Cushmans, 4 or 5 Whizzers, 2 Bellas, a Powell, a Mustang, An Allstate MoPed, a Cyrus MoPed, and probably a few I've forgotten. Never heard of a Forall, but after the war, everyone tried their hand at building some sort of contraption for the masses. Most of them tanked.

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I take it, you bought that from the auction site a few weeks back. It looked like a good clean and complete little scooter. If I recall, the final price was right too, for a pretty rare scooter. You got a good one...Those floor Forall badges were worth the whole thing.

So will you be pretty much leaving it as found, (except for getting it to run correctly), or will you restore it to it's original glory? Which ever way, I'm sure you'll do it justice..

Congratulation on your new scooter.

Old Codger

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I take it, you bought that from the auction site a few weeks back. It looked like a good clean and complete little scooter. If I recall, the final price was right too, for a pretty rare scooter. You got a good one...Those floor Forall badges were worth the whole thing.

So will you be pretty much leaving it as found, (except for getting it to run correctly), or will you restore it to it's original glory? Which ever way, I'm sure you'll do it justice..

Congratulation on your new scooter.

Old Codger

That's the one. It was on Ebay, being sold out of the Baltimore, MD area. I bought it sight unseen and would say that it exceeds my expectations.

This is the only complete, original Forall that I've ever run across. I know there are one or two examples of the early version that have been restored and there is another early version in Jim Kilau's collection that is a shriner scooter, but that's it for complete machines. I have photos of the remains of two or three others; those are the only ones I know of, but there must be a few more out there.

This is a good example and mostly just needs to be cleaned up, though it has become apparent that someone attempted to monkey with the carb at some point, but all that's missing are a couple of linkage rods or springs along with the air intake tube. Everything else is there and works good. There are no reproduction parts for these scooters, so it was essential to me to find one with all of the scooter specific parts in place.

There are some dents, dings, and rusty spots, but overall the appearance and the paint are so good that I'm going to leave it original and work to preserve it as it is. This may be the only complete, original paint late model Forall out there. It even has the original serial tag and water-slide Forall decal on the front fork tube. It just seems like it would be a shame to re-do it to perfection and erase all of that history. Whoever had this for all these years cared about it and generally took pretty good care of it. It was definitely ridden, but seems to have only seen light use.

The seller found it in a storage unit at auction and didn't really know what it was. He wrote in to the Doodle Bug Club and they got the word out that it was going up for sale. The price was right on it, but getting it to Texas from Maryland was a nightmare. Fellow scooter and motorcycle enthusiasts had been telling me for some time that Uship was the greatest thing since sliced bread, so I decided to give it a try. It was an absolutely awful experience (the only good thing being that scooter eventually showed up for delivery) and the bottom line is that I will never use Uship again.

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In the early 50's while living in Bloomington, IL I purchased a new LOUTHER LIGHTNING (sp)?

Are there many of these still around?

Thanks,

Dale in Indy

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In the early 50's while living in Bloomington, IL I purchased a new LOUTHER LIGHTNING (sp)?

Are there many of these still around?

Thanks,

Dale in Indy

post-61234-143139217552_thumb.jpeg

The Lowther Lightning...

Was yours the airflow model shown here that features that wild front body work and goofy handlebars? They had another model without that called the Playboy. The only Lowther's that I know of are all 1949. I'm not sure if that was the only year they made them or not, but every piece of dated material I've seen seems to suggest that.

I'm not sure that they ever sold that well to begin with, so (I'm speculating here) I doubt there are very many left. I've seen a couple of them amongst Vintage Motor Bike Club members during the annual meet in Portland, Indiana, but that's it.

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Yep, that is just like the one we had. Everyone stared at the handlebars, that's for sure.

The pedal down low was on a pivot, both sides operated the same. Push the top portion forward for gas, and push with your heal the lower portion to apply brakes.

Thanks,

Dale in Indy

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UPDATE: Dave Lewis of Dave Lewis [Car] Restoration in Springfield (davelewisrestoration.com) has confirmed that it is actually a 1960 model and he even sent me a scan of a factory advertisement dated 3/60 to prove it.

Dave is something of an expert on Forall Scooters, having lived in Springfield, Illinois growing up and having received a 1958 model from his father for his 8th grade graduation. In 1994 he wrote a multi page response to another enthusiast that had tracked him down that details the origin and production history of the Forall Scooter. That letter ended up posted to the US Scooter Museum website (the website is the museum---there is no physical location or collection of scooters). I managed to locate Dave, nearly 20 years after that letter was written, to see what he might be able to tell me about Forall that I didn't already know. It turns out that it wasn't terribly difficult to find him as he has not moved and has a very nice website he maintains for his collector car restoration business.The ad he sent is actually the first piece of Forall literature I've ever seen that is dated. Thanks, Dave!

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I can assure you our was a 1949, or 50 scooter.

We built a new home in 1949, moved out in 1954, and we had the Louther Lighting right after we move into the new home in 1949.

He must be referring to another brand of scooters. PERIOD.

Dale In Indy

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I can assure you our was a 1949, or 50 scooter.

We built a new home in 1949, moved out in 1954, and we had the Louther Lighting right after we move into the new home in 1949.

He must be referring to another brand of scooters. PERIOD.

Dale In Indy

That update was on the Forall, not the Lowther.

I didn't think I was unclear, but my update post was getting back to the original topic, the Forall, which has been dated to 1960. Your Lowther was a 1949.

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What's this one worth approximately? Thinking about making an offer on it. Tecumseh Lauson motor runs good.

image_zpswi3gzc1q.jpg

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