wyobob Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Found this in a junk yard. Appears to be a 1929 Dodge "merchants express' 1/2 ton pickup. Has the 4 cyl Plymouth "Silverdome" engine. Needs a lot ,but especially wooden wheels- has 20 " tires, will any other wheels fit? also needs steering column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Nice Score!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 You can make anything fit but I would try and locate the correct wheels for the truck. Do you have any more pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farrellg Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Wyobob, Nice find. I have a 1931 3/4 Ton we are currently restoring. I would love to get some detailed photos of the pickup box you have as we are recreating the one for my truck. I have most of the steel parts, but really interested in the cross members and detail from the outside of the box along the frame. -George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tsacchi Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 IN A JUNK YARD!!! Don't people know that vehicles like that should be in a garage with a blanket on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryLime Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Stutzman Wheel Shop in Baltic, Ohio has new wood wheels for that truck. Cheaper than searching ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Thanks a million for the Stutzman tip! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 What a great find! I could do with a pick up like that. How on earth did it escape the attentions of the rat rod rat bags?Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share Posted September 29, 2012 It's pretty easy to hide stuff in Wyoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Best lower the mast or it won't go in your garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 It's pretty easy to hide stuff in Wyoming!Numerous articles in pervious issues of the "Dodge Club News" for the "merchants express". I have a copy of the 2012 reprint of the "Offical Guide to DB and GB Trucks thru 1938.This a good refference for these trucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 Would you sell the "offical Guide to DB Trucks" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Would you sell the "offical Guide to DB Trucks" ?This is my only copy that I purchased last year from the DB Club. If you are not a member of the the Dodge Bros Club it would be of benifit to join by contacting www.dodgebrothersclub.org. The order form for the guide was on the last page of the bi-monthly newsletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Hello Robert, as per our e-mails I did a bit of digging. According to the D.B G.B Master parts book 21-34 wheel and hub assy for the 29 M.E S.E would have carried a part # of 517319 and rear 517321. I looked within the D.B 14-34 Master parts book just to see if that would cross over to something else and it did not, I then looked within the D.B Truck ( 29-39 ) 3 volume Master Truck book and the number did not appear, apparently the number was superseded at some point and without knowing your trucks serial number I can go much further into this because there was at least a late and early style. I then used the wheel assy less hub and drum part # 517321 Front and 517322 rear and performed the same search with same results on all counts. I guess you need to find that serial number, left frame rail, toward the front spring shackle, someone sent me an excellent image of that, maybe it was George or maybe Sherman I am not sure but I can try and find it if need be. Are the wheels useless, they did not look bad in the pictures you sent me, will you consider having them rebuilt? I am at this point leery to suggest that the wheels may have been used on auto at any point so they may be very hard to locate if that is still the plan. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks a lot for looking, I will probably have to have mine rebuilt as the rim has rusted through and some spokes are going bad where it sat on the ground for years. I also saw the serial # location on this forum not long ago, but I can't find anything but an"8" which is about 1 inch high on the left frame rail. I will continue to search for some numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 No problem, when you have the chance to measure the W.B do so and post your results, we will see how those measurements fit into the puzzle. I will post some specs when I get a second of the SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) 109" wheelbase,engine #UT3841, silver-dome on head,also 5-16 and 301074 with a 3 beneath Edited October 2, 2012 by wyobob new info (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hello Bob, where are you finding these numbers........also 5-16 and 301074 with a 3 beneath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Those numbers are on the head (the 5-16 and the 301074 with a 3 beneath) The engine number is on a boss on the upper left corner of the block (the # starting with U T ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farrellg Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Not sure if you found it, but your frame serial number should be located on the frame, drivers side, just behind the front spring mount. -George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have looked everywhere on both sides of the frame and cannot find any numbers, thanks for the info (it made me go look again just now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MBaggese Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Found this in a junk yard. Appears to be a 1929 Dodge "merchants express' 1/2 ton pickup. Has the 4 cyl Plymouth "Silverdome" engine. Needs a lot ,but especially wooden wheels- has 20 " tires, will any other wheels fit? also needs steering column.I the wheels off a '31 or '32 Series F10 (1/2 PU) and also a set of a '28 or '29 (for a car).Some where I had the info about the bearing sizes in the hubs pertaining to what car they fit, but I seem to recall that the hub (outterbearing race) sizes were the same, but it's been years since I looked into it, so may be foggy on it.]Anyway, if you want to discuss the wheels I have, give me a shout.PSThe only serial number on my Series F10 was on the engine side of the firewall on a plate, never could find one on my frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Hi Bob, as promised, hope you plan to keep this thread going as you progress on your fact finding mission, if you would like the color version ( really only B.W still with a yellowed background ) let me know. D.B manufactured these in 4 and 6 cyl. I am working on putting together a facts sheet for these early trucks, off the top of my head I do not think that the 4 and 6 were manufactured at the same time, I think that there were months of space between the two engine options regardless of the easily misconstrued/evasive information found within the D.B Master parts list. I would and am at this point working on the numbers to verify this so dont take that as fact just yet.This is an SE by the way in case you were not aware. Have fun Edited October 5, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks for the info, I learn a little every day. I really appreciate all the replys and ideas from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farrellg Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Bob,Here is a photo of where the serial number is on my 1931 3/4 ton express. This is driver side, front spring. Starts around the rivet. It is in the same location on both my 30 and 31 Trucks. It was hard to find even though I knew where it was. I used a small hand wire brush and some wd40. Care must be taken to raise as if you sand or sand blast this area you could destroy the number. Not exactly sure if you 29 would be in the same place, but thought this photo might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 These frame numbers are lightly stamped and always take lots of patience to find.This is on a DG8. I sat down next to the car with a patient attitude and a couple of cold beers and it just appeared in a place that I had looked several times before.Even cleaned up they are hard to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 I wire brushed that area and used a magnifing glass, still don't see a thing-thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 That is a nice looking truck! It looks like everything is there (except the wheels). Good luck with it. and how about a few more photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 IF it's there I can't find it. Removed the wheel, brushed and looked with a magnifing glass- can't see a thing. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DodgeKCL Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (Spotted Horse Wyoming! Sounds like something out of Gunsmoke!) This is a photo of your truck as a 1929 Fargo Packet. It has the same large side window and the smaller one behind it. This is a Canopy Delivery. The text says it displays it's Plymouth origin fenders,headlamps and bumper but not the thin profile Plymouth car rad shell of the same year. It weighed 3,045 and cost $895 in this configuration. A cowl and chassis cost $545. It only had the driver's seat but a passenger seat was available. Tires were 6 ply -4.75X20. Which was the same as a '29/'29 Plymouth car. Were the wheels the same?? The running boards appear to be Plymouth car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thanks, I believe that many components of this PU were Plymouth and I'm betting the wheels are too but I'm still waiting (it takes a long time to get mail in Spotted Horse) for some part books to verify for sure. Strangely enough mine has the spare on the drivers side. I'm cruising all the hot rod forums to see if some one has a '28 or'29 Plymouth they put on a modern chassis and want to sell wheels, engine, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Not to discourage you Bob but on your suggestion I looked within the numerical index of the Plymouth 1932 Master parts list and those numbers I gave in my earlier post do not appear. Maybe KCL can give a better explanation or a more affirmative explanation but I believe the Fargo and Plymouth shared alot of components but the Dodge ended in relation with the partial drivetrain toward Plymouth. I have some dated material that suggests that you were not really even purchasing a Plymouth motor but were in fact purchasing a truck with a re-designed motor entirely unlike that used in the earlier automobiles, Suggesting or seemingly hiding the Plymouth name.The 4 cyl trucks were a tough sale, 6 could be had for not much more money. Edited October 9, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DodgeKCL Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) "1929 1/2ton DODGE Merchant's Express- 1st truck designed by Chrysler for it's Dodge Division. 4 cyl. Plymouth engine 175.4 ci. 109 " wheelbase(which was about 3" shorter than the Plymouth car). Hydraulic brakes. Headlight doors and rad shell were chrome plated. Serial number located on left side of frame just in back of front spring's FRONT bracket. Started P-1001. Engine numbers started UT-1001. Top speed 40 mph. Extra seat $20,bumpers $15. 3/4 ton and 1 ton had 6 cylinder Dodge car engines. Trucks were really Graham with Dodge nameplates. " Edited October 10, 2012 by DodgeKCL (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) "1929 1/2ton DODGE Merchant's Express- 1st truck designed by Chrysler for it's Dodge Division. 4 cyl. Plymouth engine 175.4 ci. 109 " wheelbase(which was about 3" shorter than the Plymouth car). Hydraulic brakes. Headlight doors and rad shell were chrome plated. Serial number located on left side of frame just in back of front spring's FRONT bracket. Started P-1001. Engine numbers started UT-1001. Top speed 40 mph. Extra seat $20,bumpers $15. 3/4 ton and 1 ton had 6 cylinder Dodge car engines. Trucks were really Graham with Dodge nameplates. "This is partially incorrect, as I stated in a previous post these models were avail. with either a 4 or 6 cyl, also the truck was designed long before Chrysler came into office, he was just credited with the design. I understand what Allpar site states and a few others if the truck were to be googled but that information is just either incorrect or lacking all of the data. Trucks also were not Graham for a few years prior to this but were in fact built by Dodge employees in Dodge factories, they only in some case carried the nameplate of Graham as a sales tactic. I used the phrase SE in a prior post when in fact technically these types of model descriptions were no longer used by this time but were in fact slowly phased out if I remember correctly during the prior year of 1928. I am assuming I did not confuse anyone by the bodystyle I posted ( panel ) I am assuming that everyone understands that there were several different bodystyles avail for this chassis ( at least 6 if I remember correctly ) and several variations of that same chassis avail as well. Edited October 10, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DodgeKCL Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 This is a a synopsis from a reliable source. This source says the 'SE' designation was used in 1929 for their 6 cylinder Merchant Express which used the Victory Six car engine. The actual statement for the '4 cylinder' is "In May 1929 the 1st all new truck designed and built by Chrysler was introduced." Also "They were basically the former Graham Bros. trucks with new nameplates." Also " The new Merchant Express designed and engineered by Chrysler............" All this under 1929 Dodge Merchant Express 1/2 ton Panel. Can it all be incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Sorry to stick my oar in here, but in my experience with research, the trouble is that when an error is made, subsequent writers fail to do the research from scratch but simply repeat the errors. There are many motoring books which have been written by authors who simply paraphrase what they have read in other equally poorly researched books. It's all about getting into print quickly and making a quick buck, in my view. A motoring historian friend of mine has been writing a book on the genesis of Jaguar and he has been researching for over 25 years. He probably never will finish it. A charity has been set up to publish the research of the late Michael Sedgwick - probably the greatest motoring historian of our time - because when he died, there was so much valuable information which needed to be published.So, yes KCL, it could all be cobblers!!Ray Edited October 11, 2012 by R.White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) This is a a synopsis from a reliable source. This source says the 'SE' designation was used in 1929 for their 6 cylinder Merchant Express which used the Victory Six car engine. The actual statement for the '4 cylinder' is "In May 1929 the 1st all new truck designed and built by Chrysler was introduced." Also "They were basically the former Graham Bros. trucks with new nameplates." Also " The new Merchant Express designed and engineered by Chrysler............" All this under 1929 Dodge Merchant Express 1/2 ton Panel. Can it all be incorrect?I am having a hard time understanding what you are either stating or asking because it appears to me to be a run of sentences but as far as the SE designation that I originally used on the first page of this thread after Chrysler took control he began phasing out these old abbreviated symbols. SE does not appear on a majority of my factory literature/handbooks but does still show up in aftermarket publications from what I am able to quickly see. Merchant Express or SE was a 1/2 ton model, you stated above ............3/4 ton and 1 ton had 6 cylinder Dodge car engines............I am saying that the 1/2 tons did as well. I hope you can see the confusion. OK I am glad that you brought this up as it will hopefully help Bob, if there is any more confusion KCL continue with your questions and maybe both of us will learn something. Apparently from what I have just found the SE designation was dropped even from aftermarket publications ( that I own ) in April of 1929. May of 1929 unveiled a new model which again did not carry the SE and the W.B was changed from 110 down to 109 inches, at this time the the 6 cyl option was dropped and a 4 cyl was only made avail up until at least Dec 1930 which is where I stopped looking. So at least from as early as Jan 1929 thru April of 29 only a 6 cyl was avail for the 1/2 ton M.E and as stated above 4 cyl later. Bob this will help date your truck to being built approx/more than likely After Jan 29 up until the April. Maybe sometime in 28, I will still need to work on this. KCL I cant follow what you are getting at up until the point, you said .........Trucks were really Graham with Dodge nameplates...........Now you say ...........They were basically the former Graham Bros. trucks with new nameplates..........Like I mentioned above, these later trucks were not Graham trucks, Graham left D.B in 25, maybe 27, cant remember as its getting late now but these trucks were not connected with the brothers in any way, there were many design changes to these trucks after the Brothers had any hand in them. People / publications like to say G.B because it separates the series, makes everyone feel special but that is all its doing. I cant make out the rest, if you would like to clarify than it all makes for good conversation.BTW there were SE,SEWs DE DEWs and on and on, differences were in the W.B to be sure, may have been other places as well. Also you say ........This is a a synopsis from a reliable source.......I am curious, what is this source, lets share what we have since we both have such an interest. I try and use factory literature, that is not always the only avenue but as you know it does give the clearest idea on what was truly going on. As Ray mentioned there is alot of muck out there.Quote........Can it all be incorrect..........Its not a matter of being incorrect maybe, just a matter partially of looking at only part of the picture. Its easy to do and I can be accused of it myself more often than I care to admit Edited October 11, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Sorry to stick my oar in here, but in my experience with research, the trouble is that when an error is made, subsequent writers fail to do the research from scratch but simply repeat the errors. There are many motoring books which have been written by authors who simply paraphrase what they have read in other equally poorly researched books. It's all about getting into print quickly and making a quick buck, in my view. A motoring historian friend of mine has been writing a book on the genesis of Jaguar and he has been researching for over 25 years. He probably never will finish it. A charity has been set up to publish the research of the late Michael Sedgwick - probably the greatest motoring historian of our time - because when he died, there was so much valuable information which needed to be published.So, yes KCL, it could all be cobblers!!RayI know of a DC-8 Dodge tech advisor who is going thru the same thing. I dont know if we are ever going to see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyobob Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 well, thanks every one of you working on this, obviously it is going to take some time to sort it all out. To confuse things even more the Dodge Brothers Master Parts list which I now have states that at serial #p-1154, they changed almost ever part # relating to wooden wheels. Haven't looked at many other components yet, so don't know what all else they changed after building only 150 units. I now have 6 different locations for serial #'s which I will have do more diligent searching to see if I can find it ( yes I really need to know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 well, thanks every one of you working on this, obviously it is going to take some time to sort it all out. To confuse things even more the Dodge Brothers Master Parts list which I now have states that at serial #p-1154, they changed almost ever part # relating to wooden wheels. Haven't looked at many other components yet, so don't know what all else they changed after building only 150 units. I now have 6 different locations for serial #'s which I will have do more diligent searching to see if I can find it ( yes I really need to know)Hi Bob, not sure what you mean by 6 different areas to look, can you elaborate. Can you also post a picture of the 8 you found and where you found it, highlight it with chalk if you have to maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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